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GlennW

Is this a Matsumoku guitar?

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Reviving an old thread here. In doing some research to try to determine if my newly acquired MIJ Casino was, in fact, a Matsumoku, I came across a picture of my guitar on this forum. Not merely the same model, but the exact guitar with the same serial number. (Pictures attached.) Interesting to see that there are pictures of this guitar with its original truss rod cover. The TRC that is currently on the guitar is a plain black 2 hole cover without the epsilon logo. Anyway, I see that the person who posted the picture, Nelson, has been banned. Does anybody know if he actually owned the guitar or whether he was just linking to someone else's photos? And, if it's the latter, could someone please direct me to where those photos were originally posted? And, Frenchie, as you can see in one of the pictures I posted, you are correct, the label does indeed say JHS-S. Speaking of which, have the Epiphone experts of the world come to any consensus on what the JHS label actually meant? Is there any other information online somewhere about the JHS label? Someone in this forum mentioned that he'd read about it in other forums, but I haven't come across it anywhere else yet.

 

Anyway, I absolutely love the guitar. It's beautiful, sounds exactly like a great Casino should, and -- most importantly -- it's a joy to play. In fact, I love this thing so much I'm likely going to sell my Terada/USA made John Lennon Revolution 65 Casino.

 

CIMG0377.jpg

CIMG0378.jpg

CASINO.jpg

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Is that the one that was on ebay uk not too long ago? If I had known it was an 86 I would have mybe tried to buy it. I've always wanted to own a Casino from the year I was born ever seen I saw this thread about 2 years ago.

 

Despite the confusion, bickering, arguing etc I've always likes this thread because of the amazing Matsumoku Casinos in it. Drool central.

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Yup, it was on Ebay. I'd been monitoring it and emailing the seller with questions when suddenly it was no longer available. Six weeks later I discovered who'd bought it: my wife! She'd gotten it for me for a milestone birthday. Apparently the seller was a good guy and even gave her a discount for the non-original TRC.

 

Edit: Just read your post more closely. No, not Ebay UK, but Ebay USA.

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Well that`s a nice Casino you have there Kslam, which as stated helped lead to a war of words between myself and Nelson back in the day (He certainly knew his stuff though, but didn`t own your guitar). Not my proudest moment here, as I did lose it with him.

 

Your Casino is Matsumoku, as can be seen from the 7 digit serial on the back of the h/stock, and it appears to date to September 86 which would make it one of the last ones that factory made. I have owned three of them over the years and really rate them highly, particularly the neck profile and 1&11/16th top nut width, and I too have a 65 Lennon re-issue!

 

The JHS (John Hornby Skewes) connection appears to be a false lead, and I have not encountered any guitars labelled so in the U.K.

 

However it crossed my mind some time ago, that with the specs being closer to vintage 60`s Casino specs ( hopefully you can confirm those specs for us), we have a Matsumoku made historic series.

 

I now think JHS=S stands for Japan Historic Series = Sunburst. And I reckon there would have been a JHS=N (Natural) model as well. With the guitars being meant for the domestic market only. This is an educated guess, and I welcome being proved wrong on the matter.

 

Enjoy a fine guitar.

 

Steve.

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Thanks for the information, Steve. The Japan Historic Series hypothesis is a good one. I wonder how we could go about confirming it. So, where have you come across other JHS guitars or even other discussions of the JHS designation? I'm curious to read more on the topic, but in my limited research I've only seen it discussed here. Where, for instance, had you heard the previous theory, the one about John Hornby Skewes?

 

However it crossed my mind some time ago, that with the specs being closer to vintage 60`s Casino specs ( hopefully you can confirm those specs for us), we have a Matsumoku made historic series.

 

I'm happy to give you any specs on my guitar. Tell me what you'd like to know.

 

(He certainly knew his stuff though, but didn`t own your guitar).

 

I, too, assumed that Nelson didn't own the guitar, but how do you know for sure? Do you happen to know where Nelson got the photographs? I'd love to find the website he grabbed them from. Before me the guitar belonged to someone in Baltimore. He only owned the guitar for a few years. According to him, for around 20 years the guitar belonged to someone in Austin, TX. I'm assuming nobody here knew where Nelson was from, right?

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Thanks for the information, Steve. The Japan Historic Series hypothesis is a good one. I wonder how we could go about confirming it. So, where have you come across other JHS guitars or even other discussions of the JHS designation? I'm curious to read more on the topic, but in my limited research I've only seen it discussed here. Where, for instance, had you heard the previous theory, the one about John Hornby Skewes?

 

 

 

I'm happy to give you any specs on my guitar. Tell me what you'd like to know.

 

 

 

I, too, assumed that Nelson didn't own the guitar, but how do you know for sure? Do you happen to know where Nelson got the photographs? I'd love to find the website he grabbed them from. Before me the guitar belonged to someone in Baltimore. He only owned the guitar for a few years. According to him, for around 20 years the guitar belonged to someone in Austin, TX. I'm assuming nobody here knew where Nelson was from, right?

 

 

K, I have answered point `s one & three in a PM to you, as to the specs on your guitar which are different to the standard Matsumoku Casino`s, the only real differences are:-

 

Yours has the one piece Mahogany neck as against the standard three piece Maple of the standard model

 

Does yours have the fret edge binding? which the other model doesn`t.

 

Yours has the Sunburst finish which is much closer to the 60`s original shaded finish(Can you confirm a Walnut stained back?), whereas the standard Matsumoku model had the AS (Antique sunburst).

 

Finally Yours got the scratchplate "E" that was either close to a foil "E" type or the post 65 raised "E" we are all familiar with. The normal Casino got the Black silkscreened one like this:-

 

January08082-1.jpg

 

In all other respects I think the guitars are the same including, pickups, hardware, construction & body shape outline.

 

Steve.

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Thanks again for the prompt reply and the great info.

 

Does yours have the fret edge binding? which the other model doesn`t.

 

Yours has the Sunburst finish which is much closer to the 60`s original shaded finish(Can you confirm a Walnut stained back?), whereas the standard Matsumoku model had the AS (Antique sunburst).

 

Yup, fret edge binding, one piece neck, and walnut stained back. Crappy cell phone pics below.

CIMG03891.jpg

CIMG0388.jpg

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Thanks again for the prompt reply and the great info.

 

 

 

Yup, fret edge binding, one piece neck, and walnut stained back. Crappy cell phone pics below.

CIMG03891.jpg

CIMG0388.jpg

 

Beautiful! My feeling is that there are a lot more of these type of Casinos that were only for the Japanese market. I have seen many over the years that look very 60s styled but never noticed and JHS designation. Will be keeping my eye out in future.

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I don`t! Makes me cringe every time it gets revived.

 

It wasn`t my finest moment, and I completely lost it with Nelson, but he could do that to you. Still you`ve got to love those Matsumoku Casino`s.

 

Steve.

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What a beautiful example of the Riviera.

 

The blue label, Japanese domestic market guitars, such as yours, are fabulous.

 

I have a blue label JDM Casino and i love it.

 

I would post some pics but it says i have reached my upload limit,whatever that means??????

 

It can be found in a coulple of posts in Epiphone Electrics. Adrian

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Hi, new member here, joined to add to the this thread, I got this yesterday, complete with original Epiphone case, 1984 Riviera AN T:

 

2012-05-21_22-46-23_%252B2.0Ev.jpg

 

IMG_20120521_225819.jpg

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Hi, new member here, joined to add to the this thread, I got this yesterday, complete with original Epiphone case, 1984 Riviera AN T:

 

2012-05-21_22-46-23_%252B2.0Ev.jpg

 

IMG_20120521_225819.jpg

 

Hi there,

Man that's a stunning guitar! I've never seen a natural finish one, just wine red and vintage sunburst.

 

I regret, almost on a daily basis, having to sell my '84 matsumoku Riviera. It was the nicest guitar I have ever owned/played.

 

Keep hold of it!!!

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Hi,

 

I have a 1984 Epiphone Casino Matsumoku model AS(antique sunburst)and the original case. It has been set up recently by a Luthier KGB Music and I also had the pick up's wax potted to stop it feeding back as they are prone to do when cranked up a bit. It's in excellent condition with the odd tiny mark that a photograph wouldnt pick up.

 

It was bought for my 18th birthday in Liverpool in a shop called Rushworths which is no longer there. So its got a lot of sentimental value but the truth is I don't do it justice because it rarely gets played. Live I play a Tokai Strat and at home a Walden parlour acoustic. Sad as I would be to see it go I would be happy if it goes to a good home and got played as it deserves to be.

 

I'm going to put it up on E-Bay at some point but thought I'd mention on here first as this is where the Epiphones kids hang out. I havent had it valued but would consider any sensible offers so PM me if you have any questions etc.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

PHOTOS

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I sold this 2 weeks ago for £725. A fair price I think.

 

Here it is now on EBay being sold by it's new owner. Fair enough I suppose but I thought I was selling to a player not a wheeler dealer....

 

My old Epiphone

They're nice guitars, I have the Riviera from '83, but there's no way I'd pay £1500.00 for one.

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I sold this 2 weeks ago for £725. A fair price I think.

 

Here it is now on EBay being sold by it's new owner. Fair enough I suppose but I thought I was selling to a player not a wheeler dealer....

 

My old Epiphone

In my honest opinion you sold it too cheap. His price is too dear but he has got lots of room to manoeuvre to get to where it should be

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You probably did sell it a bit too cheap but I think the true value of the Matsumoku guitars is around £900-1000. I could understand if the "Oasis" Rivieras went for more along with anything more unique like an unusual finish.

 

Japanese Domestic Market guitars with a 60s/Beatles vibe I would say were also worth more but when they're competing with USA Lennon Casinos popping up for £1500 and Elite/Elitists going second hand for less than £1000, you're talking about a very niche market that would pay over the odds for what is quite an obscure guitar.

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Well of course nobody would turn their nose up at £1500, fair play and all that and I guess I'm being a touch sentimental and naive but its just the way its been bought and immediately sold for a profit. I had this idea of a genuine lover of these guitars falling in love with it and playing it like I did, not someone wanting to make a quick buck but thats how it is these days I guess. Anyway, on the upside whoever buys it for £1500 really will love and cherish it! Who knows where it will end up. Hopefully it will get played though, thats the whole point isn't it?????

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Well of course nobody would turn their nose up at £1500, fair play and all that and I guess I'm being a touch sentimental and naive but its just the way its been bought and immediately sold for a profit. I had this idea of a genuine lover of these guitars falling in love with it and playing it like I did, not someone wanting to make a quick buck but thats how it is these days I guess. Anyway, on the upside whoever buys it for £1500 really will love and cherish it! Who knows where it will end up. Hopefully it will get played though, thats the whole point isn't it?????

 

I would be very surprised if it ever sells for £1500. Hopefully it ends up in the hands of someone who's gonna play it soon instead of on ebay for the next 12 months...

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I just noticed this Matsumoku Casino on eBay. I see that it has fret edge binding. I was under the impression that only the Matsumoku Casinos with the JHS label had binding, but perhaps I was mistaken. Curious to hear what the experts make of this. Btw, pretty fair price on the BIN, I think!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350757235893&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

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