Custom Admin: Volute on Lifeson 355

[VRob8]

Vrob......just because something is HIGHLY anticipated' date=' doesn't mean it won't be a dud when it actually becomes reality!!! And it certainly doesn't make it a Collectable, because it was anticipated!!!!! I also was really excited and could'nt wait for my Al to get to my house........but just like a Hollywood BlockBuster FLOP..........My excitement turn to disgust when I saw what I had bought for 3K. Like I have said before.....Epiphone could have done a MUCH better job on this guitar, than the Custom Shop did.....and for probably one third of the price!!!!!!!

 

Speaking of Custom Shop....do you work there???? You defend them like you do!!!!!

 

Cheers![/quote']

 

I'll take your last question as being rhetorical. What I'm doing - and I'll say it again - is pointing out that the collectible status of a piece is not necessarily proportional to its manufacturing quality. That's reflected in the way this guitar has sold so far and continues to sell now. These will not be around for long and will soon become very hard to come by. Simple as that.

 

You'd have to say also that the hostility expressed in this forum towards the guitar is not representative of the way it's been generally received out there. Look anywhere else, and you'll see people raving about the guitar for its playability and sound. Only here is there any dissent. And I think that's probably the way it's going to stay.

 

My own opinion is that the guitar was probably rushed (no pun intended) to get it out before further delays, and that this probably compromised certain aspects. But I've owned a heck of a lot of Custom Shop guitars, and for me, the Lifeson is certainly no worse quality-wise than most of the others, and indeed a good deal better than some. To dismiss it as a complete dud is an overreaction to my mind.

 

I guess if you want to use your Hollywood analogy, and be objective about it, the Lifeson is not a Hollywood Blockbuster Flop, but a potentially great movie that had some bad casting in it.

[barry2001]

 

I've brought this up on these forums before' date=' and I've not been banned or suspended yet, so here goes again:

 

I think you'll find your '63 block reissue was built in Nashville. It seems the AL's are built in Memphis. There seems to be an incredible difference in quality, and quality control between these two "custom shops".[/quote']

 

you are correct, my guitar was built in Nashville . I have the original box that shows it was shipped from Nashville and of course the label inside the guitar also reads Nashville . Its an amazing guitar .

[barry2001]

It scares me to hear your comment:"But I've owned a heck of a lot of Custom Shop guitars' date=' and for me, the Lifeson is certainly no worse quality-wise than most of the others, and indeed a good deal better than some ". I thought all Custom Shop guitars are supposed to be just that . I thought Custom Shop ment attention to detail , certainly much more than production line guitars . Thats what all of their literature/brochures state . Anything less is just not a custom shop guitar in my estimation . As i said earlier, I suppose I'm fortunate because all three of my custom shop pieces are uncompromised . All the attention to detail is there , just as it should be for a CS guitar . I can understand people being very upset accepting anything less when they've put up their hard earned dollars . Some people here will only have one oppurtunity in a life time for a guitar like this . If it comes up short than you should expect some very upset people .

 

I'll take your last question as being rhetorical. What I'm doing - and I'll say it again - is pointing out that the collectible status of a piece is not necessarily proportional to its manufacturing quality. That's reflected in the way this guitar has sold so far and continues to sell now. These will not be around for long and will soon become very hard to come by. Simple as that.

 

You'd have to say also that the hostility expressed in this forum towards the guitar is not representative of the way it's been generally received out there. Look anywhere else, and you'll see people raving about the guitar for its playability and sound. Only here is there any dissent. And I think that's probably the way it's going to stay.

 

My own opinion is that the guitar [i']was[/i] probably rushed (no pun intended) to get it out before further delays, and that this probably compromised certain aspects. But I've owned a heck of a lot of Custom Shop guitars, and for me, the Lifeson is certainly no worse quality-wise than most of the others, and indeed a good deal better than some. To dismiss it as a complete dud is an overreaction to my mind.

 

I guess if you want to use your Hollywood analogy, and be objective about it, the Lifeson is not a Hollywood Blockbuster Flop, but a potentially great movie that had some bad casting in it.

[barry2001]

 

I'll take your last question as being rhetorical. What I'm doing - and I'll say it again - is pointing out that the collectible status of a piece is not necessarily proportional to its manufacturing quality. That's reflected in the way this guitar has sold so far and continues to sell now. These will not be around for long and will soon become very hard to come by. Simple as that.

 

You'd have to say also that the hostility expressed in this forum towards the guitar is not representative of the way it's been generally received out there. Look anywhere else' date=' and you'll see people raving about the guitar for its playability and sound. Only here is there any dissent. And I think that's probably the way it's going to stay.

 

My own opinion is that the guitar [i']was[/i] probably rushed (no pun intended) to get it out before further delays, and that this probably compromised certain aspects. But I've owned a heck of a lot of Custom Shop guitars, and for me, the Lifeson is certainly no worse quality-wise than most of the others, and indeed a good deal better than some. To dismiss it as a complete dud is an overreaction to my mind.

It scares me to hear your comment:"But I've owned a heck of a lot of Custom Shop guitars, and for me, the Lifeson is certainly no worse quality-wise than most of the others, and indeed a good deal better than some ". I thought all Custom Shop guitars are supposed to be just that . I thought Custom Shop ment attention to detail , certainly much more than production line guitars . Thats what all of their literature/brochures state . Anything less is just not a custom shop guitar in my estimation . As i said earlier, I suppose I'm fortunate because all three of my custom shop pieces are uncompromised . All the attention to detail is there , just as it should be for a CS guitar . I can understand people being very upset accepting anything less when they've put up their hard earned dollars . Some people here will only have one oppurtunity in a life time for a guitar like this . If it comes up short than you should expect some very upset people .

 

I guess if you want to use your Hollywood analogy, and be objective about it, the Lifeson is not a Hollywood Blockbuster Flop, but a potentially great movie that had some bad casting in it.

[barry2001]

It scares me to hear Vrobs comment:"But I've owned a heck of a lot of Custom Shop guitars, and for me, the Lifeson is certainly no worse quality-wise than most of the others, and indeed a good deal better than some ". I thought all Custom Shop guitars are supposed to be just that . I thought Custom Shop ment attention to detail , certainly much more than production line guitars . Thats what all of their literature/brochures state . Anything less is just not a custom shop guitar in my estimation . As i said earlier, I suppose I'm fortunate because all three of my custom shop pieces are uncompromised . All the attention to detail is there , just as it should be for a CS guitar . I can understand people being very upset accepting anything less when they've put up their hard earned dollars . Some people here will only have one oppurtunity in a life time for a guitar like this . If it comes up short than you should expect some very upset people .

[Wondo]

I can understand people being very upset accepting anything less when they've put up their hard earned dollars . Some people here will only have one oppurtunity in a life time for a guitar like this . If it comes up short than you should expect some very upset people .

 

That last part of this is it, and why we are upset. Most of us have wanted this guitar for a very long time, and when the CS announces they will be doing it, we expect something along the lines of the JP Les Paul in detail. I don't think any other signature model has been so grossly misrepresented. Most people that like Rush are sticklers for detail; that is the nature of the music. It is complex and exact. Those of us that play guitar and like Rush obviously expect something close to perfection. This guitar was not even close. It is not what they claim to be an inspired by or signature model. But, when people come up to me after playing some Rush on this guitar, I will proudly say it is the Gibson Custom Shop Alex Lifeson Characateur Model ES 355 and that will be that.

[barry2001]

I have one of the JP Boneyard LPs you referred to and its a fine example of what a CS guitar should be . Very precise . I feel your pain with the issues on your AL model . I too would be very dissapointed . When i look at my Custom shop models its hard for me to imagine them turning out anything but stellar instruments .

[VRob8]

It scares me to hear Vrobs comment:"But I've owned a heck of a lot of Custom Shop guitars' date=' and for me, the Lifeson is certainly no worse quality-wise than most of the others, and indeed a good deal better than some ". I thought all Custom Shop guitars are supposed to be just that . I thought Custom Shop ment attention to detail , certainly much more than production line guitars.[/quote']

 

Well let me clarify that: the further you get from a mass production model, the more evident it is that a piece is handmade, with all the imperfections and 'character' that this implies. The most perfect and flawless guitars I've ever owned in terms of build quality were Japanese, but they unfortunately were also completely soulless. The best-sounding guitars I've ever owned have been Custom Shop Gibsons, but I've come not to expect the same level of perfection when it comes to detail and finish. That's from many years of experience with them. Indeed, without going into details here, I've had some pretty rough product from the Custom Shop on occasion. And I can say quite confidently that the Lifeson 355 - purely in terms of build and finish quality - is one of the nicer ones I've had. That said, perhaps I got lucky with my AL, because I have no fault to find with it other than a trem arm tip that's on the wrong way round. I feel bad for people who have been disappointed, or whose AL has had more objectionable flaws, but I can only make an observation based on my own experience.

[barry2001]

Thats fair enough but looking the pictures of the volute I cant see how you get around that for playability ? Would'nt your thumb actually fall on the other side of the volute on some F chords ? Im asking this because i dont own one nor have I played one it just looks like it would problematic .

[enduroexpert]

Any news yet "Custom Admin".......???

 

Cheers

[Custom Admin]

i posted my findings on this topic on page 2 of this thread.

[Wondo]

i posted my findings on this topic on page 2 of this thread.

 

Admin,

 

You did post your findings on this and we do appreciate it. What I am wondering is why they put the volute where they did? Is there some logic to this or is this just a mistake? This is what we are trying to find out. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think Gibson ever put out a guitar with the volute in this position, so why now on this one? I hope you can understand why this personally bothers me so much. I was hoping that they didn't even do a volute on this guitar. When I saw it advertised with it, I was okay since I had owned and played many 70s Les Pauls, 335s, SGs and one 355 with the volute and although, it was not what I preferred, I was okay with it. Imagine my disappointment that the volute came in the wrong place and even in a place where it can be cumersome to play some chords.

[Wondo]

 

 

Enough Said!

[VRob8]

Perhaps the last word on this is going to have to come from Alex Lifeson himself? After all, he had the prototype (which is identical to the production guitars) to evaluate and approve before it went into production.

 

Now if he says, 'yes, I wanted the volute there' for whatever reason, then I guess that ends the matter. He is the artist and endorser after all, and his name is on this guitar.

 

If, on the other hand, he just plain didn't notice it, (which is frankly a little hard to believe - you surely wouln't just give a cursory inspection to something that bore your signature?), then that suggests that somebody along the line did indeed screw up, and that carries its own implications. I wouldn't think Mr Lifeson would be too pleased either, were that actually to be the case.

 

I would be inclined to try and keep an open mind on it until AL himself weighs in.

 

Over to you, Mr Lifeson...

[Wondo]

I would be inclined to try and keep an open mind on it until AL himself weighs in.

 

Over to you' date=' Mr Lifeson...[/quote']

 

VRob8,

 

I agree, but I think Hell is calling for a snow storm.

[Wondo]

Here is just a thought, and it is a wild one at that. What if the screw up on the volute happened in 1976? There were no White ES355TD-SVs made in 1976. There were only 79 white ones made in 1975. Alex obviously had his special ordered. It was a one off. Could the screw up of the volute have been made in 1976? The 70s are a notorius time for some models of Gibsons and the 355 was no exception. In fact this model had some problems post 1975. The only people to weigh in would be Alex Lifeson, or Freddy Gabrsek (who re-finished the guitar in the 90s) or perhaps someone in the Custom Shop who will admit it was cut wrong. Other than that, we are S.O.L. In the 70s they used to stamp "Second" on the back of the headstock when there was some sort of flaw, maybe we can have that stamped on the back of the headstock, but then again even the 70s guitars that had "Second" stapmed on them had very minor imperfections. I would not call the misplacement of a volute a minor thing at all.

[Crappy]

Too bad I'm not one of the people going to meet and greet tonight at Jones Beach or I'll ask Alex myself.

[Custom Admin]

 

Admin' date='

 

You did post your findings on this and we do appreciate it. What I am wondering is why they put the volute where they did? Is there some logic to this or is this just a mistake? This is what we are trying to find out. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think Gibson ever put out a guitar with the volute in this position, so why now on this one? I hope you can understand why this personally bothers me so much. I was hoping that they didn't even do a volute on this guitar. When I saw it advertised with it, I was okay since I had owned and played many 70s Les Pauls, 335s, SGs and one 355 with the volute and although, it was not what I preferred, I was okay with it. Imagine my disappointment that the volute came in the wrong place and even in a place where it can be cumersome to play some chords.[/quote']

 

no, i don't know why. my concern when i started looking into this was to confirm if the volute on the proto Alex has was in the same place as it is on the production models, and it is. From this, i conclude that--for whatever reason--either Alex wanted it this way or, at the very least, he was OK with it like this since he approved it for production and is playing it nightly on tour.

[L5Larry]

my concern when i started looking into this was to confirm if the volute on the proto Alex has was in the same place as it is on the production models' date=' and it is. From this, i conclude that--for whatever reason--either Alex wanted it this way or, at the very least, he was OK with it like this since he approved it for production and is playing it nightly on tour.

[/quote']

 

I've got no dog in this fight, BUT, I do think people that have forked out big bucks for one of these guitars are owed a full , factual, and timely explanation. Concerning the recent post from admin quoted above, did I miss something in between, or did admin's response from pg. 2 state that he DID NOT see the prototypes, and ASSUMED it was the same and approved by Alex Lifeson.

 

Unfortunately' date=' i never got a look at the prototypes, so i am left to assume that, based upon the neck template i saw, this is how the protos are as well, and that Alex approved the guitar as we are making it./quote']

 

This has turned into a "he said, she said" situation and can go 'round and 'round forever. The only way this is going to get cleared up is if Mr. Lifeson and some upper management of Gibson get involved. There has to be tons of documentation in Gibson files on this project, from inspections, diagrams, and descriptions of the original instrument, to blueprints, schematics and work orders for patterns and prototypes, to purchase orders for paint, hardware and TREMELO ARMS. We here on the website have no way to demand access to these records, we're just the lowly consumers, but it sure would go a long way for customer relations if someone at Gibson would take the time and effort to clear this up once and for all. Sure it would take someone a few days to do this research, but with the guitars already delivered and the further production on the horizon, wouldn't it be worth the effort, both finacially and customer relation wise. Dig up the records, photograph the original guitar and the prototype(s) in Mr. Lifeson's possession, get a written statement from him and the Gibson big-wigs that oversaw this project, and publish the results.

 

Wham-o, case closed. Which way it goes would remain to be seen by the findings.

[PJLCC14]

Rush is coming to Charlotte....and I believe Alex is making 2 store appearances....you can bet your a$$ that i will be there....with the Guitar to be signed......and I will ask if he approved the location of the valute? And if as Admin says.....Alex says yes.....the why question will follow.......somebody screwed up.....and the he said she said just isn't going to cover it!!!!!!! I'll find some answers out......first hand!!!!!

[Custom Admin]

 

 

Unfortunately' date=' i never got a look at the prototypes' date=' so i am left to assume that, based upon the neck template i saw, this is how the protos are as well, and that Alex approved the guitar as we are making it./quote'']

 

 

i didn't see it...but forum user 1meanmalibu saw it at the recent show in Toronto, and posted that the volute is indeed lower. i was going by his observation...just to be clear.

[Crappy]

I wish that video was still up on youtube where Alex is talking about this guitar and he points to the neck near the headstock and says it is almost identical. At the time I was thinking that he meant the nut size was different from 1 9/16” inch one on his. However, he may have been talking about the volute. We may never know.

[enduroexpert]

i posted my findings on this topic on page 2 of this thread.

 

I've been away for a couple of weeks so am a little behind on discussions at hand but have spent the last half hour catching up and its all very interesting.....

 

Firstly, thanks "Custom Admin" for finding out what you have so far, its all very much appreciated as at this point in time we have no other way of communicating with the Custom Shop.....

 

....... but would it not be possible for the craftsmen/women who worked on this project with Alex to get involved at this point and answer some questions first hand on the forum. As this guitar is so young; all the discussions on the design & comparisons to the original should surely be very fresh still and they may have the definitive answer we're all looking for...?

 

I myself design products on a daily basis and deal with manufacturing issues day in & day out, I get questions from our Customer Support Staff daily from customers asking "why/when/where/what....????"...... I get definite answers at all costs to these people as they keep me in business....and guitars.

 

Would it be possible for you to email me a phone No. for the Custom Shop to ask the question on behalf of everyone on this forum to the guys/engineers who dealt with Alex on this project.......? I'll take it that if this is not possible then something is being held under wraps on purpose and there has been a serious blunder.....!!!!!

 

All in all though the guitar is awesome, looks fantastic and plays even better which is the most important point for me cause I've bought it for keeps not as an investment and waited thirty years in the process. It has its finishing flaws for sure as have all the Gibson's I've had over the years, mine certainly does, so thats no surprise at all really, but its still a blinder of a guitar, the trem issue I can live with and sort myself but this "Volute" issue really does need sorting out. It doesn't hinder me really but obviously does for others which is a major for them and the Custom Shop.

 

I did further "Stress Analysis" work on the Volute which I didn't need to; as its obviously doing nothing to support the neck/headstock area behind the nut, just 3/4" -1" towards the headstock (like an original) and we'd have 340% less chance of the headstock snapping off if the guitar was to fall backwards at this point we know so well fails. Now I know its boring for some folk to listen to all this, I hope others will find it interesting...........I also factored in a range of densities for the woods Gibson used, laminates and solids to see if the results differed very much..........

 

That Volute is doing "Jack" basically.............sorry to be so blunt....!!!! But it did cost me a lot of money at the end of the day and all these other folk hard earned..............

 

Its a proper Love/Hate thing I have going on here now, but I crank it up through an old Marshall and all is forgotten so quickly............

 

F**!in' guitars............

 

Have a lovely evening everyone.......

[1meanmalibu]

Hello Custom Admin,

 

I have a photo that I took at the recent Rush concert in Toronto of Alex's guitar rack which shows the backs of both ES-355's. I'd like to post this photo but can't seem to figure out how to do this simple task. I was wondering if you could describe to me what the easiest way is to post a picture on this forum. I'd appreciate your help. Thank you!

[Wondo]

Hello Custom Admin' date='

 

I have a photo that I took at the recent Rush concert in Toronto of Alex's guitar rack which shows the backs of both ES-355's. I'd like to post this photo but can't seem to figure out how to do this simple task. I was wondering if you could describe to me what the easiest way is to post a picture on this forum. I'd appreciate your help. Thank you![/quote']

 

1meanmalibu,

 

You can email the picture to me and I will post it, that would be easiest. However, if you want to give it a try, here is how it goes:

 

First you will need to upload the picture on a hosting site. Photobucket.com is what I use and it is free. Just go there and sign up and upload your picture. Then you copy the direct link and come here and post it. You would click on the picture icon which has the mountain and sun in it. Then a "" will come up in your text area. In between these two sets of brackets paste your link. Preview it to make sure it looks right and then post it.

 

If you email it to me, I can have it up in a couple of minutes.