What is a coil tap switch?

[Nic]

I'm interested in buying a used guitar that has a coil tap switch with 4 conductor pick wires installed. I have no idea what this is, but when I toggle the switch the sound goes way up and the pick ups seem hotter and punchier. They also have a lot more hum.

 

What is a coil tap switch supposed to do?

 

And does it de value the guitar?

 

This is 1974 Gibson L5s going for about $3500. Which seems a little higher than other L5s's.

[SkEpTiKaL]

"Coil Tapping is a procedure to make a Humbucker pickup on your Guitar have single coil capability. This will give your guitar more total sound options."

 

It pretty much "splits" the humbucker to give you the single coil sound. I really don't know the value of vintage guitars so I can't help you in that area, but I hope I helped some! Good luck with your decision.

[Nic]

That explains the hum. thanks.

[Steven Lister]

And does it de value the guitar?

This is 1974 Gibson L5s going for about $3500. Which seems a little higher than other L5s's.

The coil tap is a simple and cheap mod that you can do to any humbucker equiped guitar. A lot of players with LP Jrs. or other one humbucker guitars do the coil split to give them much greater flexibility from that one pickup. It does not devalue the instrument per se (unless it's vintage or stock value at issue).

 

I recently did a coil split on a old $50 Korean that I had (2 hours & a $12 push/pull pot). It's still worth $50 but it now has the tone capability of a $500 (or maybe even that $3' date='500 L5). My point is, don't let someone fool you into thinking that you have to spend a lot of money to have a coil split capable guitar -- or that that L5 is worth a lot more just b/c of the coil split.

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

[carverman]

I'm interested in buying a used guitar that has a coil tap switch with 4 conductor pick wires installed. I have no idea what this is' date=' but when I toggle the switch the sound goes way up and the pick ups seem hotter and punchier. They also have a lot more hum.

 

What is a coil tap switch supposed to do?

 

And does it de value the guitar?

 

This is 1974 Gibson L5s going for about $3500. Which seems a little higher than other L5s's. [/quote']

 

Coil taps are unusal for an L5 fullbody. I can't see just a 3-way toggle doing this function

as there isn't enough contacts on a switchcraft 3-way to juggle 8 wires ( 2"hot" wires +

4 start/end connections between the hbucker coils), assuming of course, it has

neck/bridge p_ups and not just a neck p_up, like some models had.

 

Does it have push-pull switches installed on either the volume or tone knobs?

 

If not, then I can't see it being a true coil tap as 4 wire humbuckers really require a

switched means to split or reconnect the two coils in each humbucker for coil splitting (tapping).

The 3-way just selects neck/both/bridge.

 

As far as "devalue", it's hard to say. I don't recall 1974 humbuckers having four wires, so the the p_ups

may have been replaced already..if so..then yes, it would devalue a 1974 L5, as the two wire original

p_ups have been replaced with some aftermarkets..maybe Gibson, but you would have to check the

undersides of them to verify that.

[Ricochet]

Note the difference between a split- and a coil-tap.

A split only applies to dual-humbucker-coils, giving you single-coil sound...

A coil-tap takes a(as in one) coil and taps it (usually 2/3 in the middle) to lessen output.

 

It doesn't mean a coiltap sounds weak tho. Seymour Duncan's Quarterpound SSL4 is a high-output fat almost P90-ish sounding Singlecoil pickup. In tapped mode it sounds like a regular Fender SC.

[GlennW]

I'm not a collector by any means, but if the guitar is priced higher than most of the same kind in the same condition AND has been modified I think you have room for negotiation. It's my understanding that any deviation from original decreases value.

 

Edit: If this switch is an add-on which required drilling the guitar that's a big no-no from an investment standpoint. This also means that the pickups have been replaced or messed with and the original solder joints are gone. All this stuff drops the value.

 

Sounds like it has:

1) pickups replaced or modified

2) hole/s drilled into the body

3) non-original wiring and/or components

4) higher than average price for similar guitars in stock condition

5) possibly other changes you don't know about

 

I'd say "no thanks", but it's up to you.

[carverman]

I'm not a collector by any means' date=' but if the guitar is priced higher than most of the same kind in the same condition AND has been modified I think you have room for negotiation. It's my understanding that any deviation from original decreases value.

 

 

Edit: If this switch is an add-on which required drilling the guitar that's a big no-no from an investment standpoint. This also means that the pickups have been replaced or messed with and the original solder joints are gone. All this stuff drops the value.

 

I'd say "no thanks", but it's up to you.

 

I would say that is correct. I took a bit of a hit on my '66 Epi Triumph when I sold it on consignment at'

a dealer in Toronto. After checking the sn to get the year, he mentioned that it

would have gone for as much as $400 more, had it not been modified with pickups

and wiring. It still had a good sound acoustically as well as electrically..but it

was no longer in original condition, so I didnt get the top condition blue book

value for it.

 

Well an L5 is still an L5, and even with the mods it is still a very good archtop.

These probably came out of the factory with Gibson Classic 57, so even if the aftermarket p-ups are not Gibson, one

can change them back to Gibson. As far as the wiring...that depends on whether any additional

holes (as you say) have been drilled for the coil split or coil tap mode, whatever it does.

That will detract quite a bit from the blue book price. I dont know if the blue book values are

published anywhere on line, probably have to buy the book, but the price also depends on

the overall condition and whether it is a CESN (natural) as well.

 

Putting the wiring back to original along with Gibson Classic 57 could cost around $300-$350

if you do it yourself and it would require the correct vintage wire for that year as well as the pots

(CTS or Centralab) or whatever Gibson used.

[Prospero]

...

Well an L5 is still an L5' date=' and even with the mods it is still a very good archtop...

[/quote']

 

I think the OP is talking about a Gibson L5S, which is a solid-body, and not the L5. Wikipedia-> Gibson L5S

 

Don't mean to nitpick, just a minor point since they are two somewhat different guitars.

[GlennW]

Did L-5S's come with factory coil splitting?

[Parabar]

There were several variants of the L5-S solidbody --- none of them had factory coil-splitting, as far as I know.

 

They were produced for only a few years from about 1973 to 1983, and were Gibson's top-of-the-line solidbody during their run, with more ornamentation than a Les Paul Custom --- matching wood cavity covers, lots of binding, 24k gold hardware, etc. They still command pretty high prices --- I've seen them go for $3k and up on eBay even with substantial wear, dings, buckle rash, or changed hardware. Here's a pic of some of the variations:

 

[Nic]

There were several variants of the L5-S solidbody --- none of them had factory coil-splitting' date=' as far as I know.

 

They were produced for only a few years from about 1973 to 1983, and were Gibson's top-of-the-line solidbody during their run, with more ornamentation than a Les Paul Custom --- matching wood cavity covers, lots of binding, 24k gold hardware, etc. They still command pretty high prices --- I've seen them go for $3k and up on eBay even with substantial wear, dings, buckle rash, or changed hardware. Here's a pic of some of the variations:

 

[img']http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u278/Parabar/L5-Scollage.jpg[/img]

 

Parabar:

 

Thanks for the photo and the info. THis will be really helpful as I continue to consider buying this guitar. They want $3500, it is in EC but there are more mods, the tail piece was changed to the Finger style tail piece like a Howard Roberts Fusion. But it looks kind of mickey mouse. It also has a solid brass nut.

 

It's a '74 and matches the version second from the left. I'm not interested in it's vintage value, I just really like the way it plays and sounds. But I won't pay $3500 for it.

[Ron G]

The coil tap is a simple and cheap mod that you can do to any humbucker equiped guitar

Minor correction, Steve. They must be 4-lead humbuckers, with separate "hot" leads for each coil.

[lostindesert]

A COIL TAP is used on single coil pickups with a hot output, using the tap gives you normal output.

This way you're only using about 2/3 of the coil wire, full output is 3/3.

A COIL SPLIT is used on humbuckers to ground 1 coil to earth, so you're using only 1 coil.

 

Peter

[Ron G]

A COIL TAP is used on single coil pickups with a hot output' date=' using the tap gives you normal output.

This way you're only using about 2/3 of the coil wire, full output is 3/3.

A COIL SPLIT is used on humbuckers to ground 1 coil to earth, so you're using only 1 coil.Peter[/quote']

It is so cool to learn stuff here. Is coil tap applicable to hot humbuckers?

[GlennW]

Only if they're made that way, which is very unlikely

 

On a single coil pickup, like a Strat for instance, the pickup would have three eyelets with three leads. One is the start of the coil aka ground. The next one would be for the finish of the inner part of the coil, let's say at 6K, AND the start of the outside part of the coil. The third eyelet would be for the end of the outside coil. HB bobbins don't use eyelets, but that's not to say someone couldn't do it with an extra pigtail. It would be a PITA. It might be useful if you did it to both coils making it a 8K or 14K HB for instance. There isn't much room on those things, but it's possible.

 

The term "coil tap" is usually misused from a technical standpoint, but it's like "hub cap"...wrong term, but everybody knows what you mean.

[Ron G]

Glenn, you splained it perfectly.

[Steven Lister]

The term "coil tap" is usually misused from a technical standpoint' date=' but it's like "hub cap"...wrong term, but everybody knows what you mean.[/quote']

Yes. Glenn has us all on the same page.

 

And Ron: Most 2 wire humbuckers can also be "tapped" in order to make the coil split mod. It just involves another step that you don't have to do if your hums are already 4 wire. So if yours are 2 wire don't give up on them just roll up the sleeves..., and while your at it how about another round of those great pretzels?

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

[CodeMonk]

...

 

I know this is not on topic, but I'm in love...again.

That one on the far right is giving me a major case of GAS right now.

[carverman]

 

I think the OP is talking about a Gibson L5S' date=' which is a solid-body, and not the L5. Wikipedia-> [u']Gibson L5S[/u]

 

Don't mean to nitpick, just a minor point since they are two somewhat different guitars.

 

 

Thanks for pointing that out. I missed the lowercase 's' after the L5s on the OP.

 

I know that Gibson had several variations of the LP style over the years and the

L5S was one of them, but.... other than the L5 headstock and tailpiece,

what tonal advantages would it have over a LP custom/goldtop or flametop?

 

Was it larger in size than the 13 inch lower bout of the LP, being more closer to the lower

bout of the L5?

[carverman]

Yes. Glenn has us all on the same page.

 

And Ron: Most 2 wire humbuckers can also be "tapped" in order to make the coil split mod. It just involves another step that you don't have to do if your hums are already 4 wire. So if yours are 2 wire don't give up on them just roll up the sleeves...' date=' and while your at it how about another round of those great pretzels?

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

 

 

Ok, I'm curious here.. Richochet/ Steven/GlennW. I haven't seen any humbuckers with "taps" as you

call them 1/3/ 1/2 or even 2/3 through the coil winding. Most coil winding machines

have specific/exact tension for #42awg and I would think you don't mess around with the winding process

to add a "tap" as you call it, partially through the the coil winding process.

In order to do that one would have to :

a) stop the coil winder

 

:D very carefully scrape the insulation off the copper wire

 

c) solder another piece of #42 awg wire to bring out the "tap"

to connect a external wire to, and that piece of wire would have to

be secured outside the coil before the winding process could resume.

 

Perhaps there are special custom built humbuckers that have this feature,

but most commercial humbuckers don't seem to.

 

Most humbuckers that I've seen are either:

 

2 wire (with the start/end of the N/S coils connected internally underneath the

black adhesive tape

...or..

4 wire, where those internal N/S coil connections are brought out and connected

to external wires, giving you (red/grn/blk/wht connections) to SPLIT the coils

into two separate SC or restore them to SERIES connected humbuckers.

 

Who makes these so called "tapped" coils? (Coils that have 1/2/ and 2/3 taps brought out for

external connections, and just what is the advantage of these tapped coils?

 

AFAIK, the characteristic sound of the humbucker is dependent on having the "appropriate" number of turns,

the looseness of the wind (ie: scatter winding = less capacitance in the coil) and the type of magnet used.

[lostindesert]

carv. these guys mean 'SPLIT' but use the word 'TAPPED'. :D

 

Peter

[GlennW]

I haven't seen any coil tapped HB's either. They'd have to be custom made. I was just saying it's possible, not easy or practical. It's fairly simple, although delicate, to add a coil split feature to a HB which doesn't have one. You add a lead from where the two coils are connected together and run it to ground; that takes one coil out of the circuit when you hit the switch.

 

I haven't seen any commercially available single coils with coil taps. I've made a couple and altered a couple existing pickups to have it. It has it's place, but the main thing is to start out with a decent sounding coil in the first place. IOW, winding a pickup so it could go from 3K to 6K would be pretty worthless; but if you had a nice sounding pickup and wanted a hotter sound without sacrificing what's already there you could add more wire. You'd start the new winding from the end of the original coil (at the eyelet) and add wire wound in the same direction and terminate it in its own new eyelet. Like if you had a clean Tele bridge pickup and wanted a "hot" option you could add some more 42 or even 43 or 44 to make it a dual sound single coil. That would be a major PITA on HB's.

 

I did that to a single coil bass pickup once and it really wasn't worth it because I also had the bass set up with cap selector switch (no pots). I think the pickup was about 7K of 42 and I added about 1.5K of 43, that's all there was room for; and switching the pickup from as original to overwound was about the same as going one cap larger on the cap switch. It's more useful on a guitar.

[carverman]

I haven't seen any coil tapped HB's either. They'd have to be custom made. I was just saying it's possible' date=' not easy or practical. It's fairly simple, although delicate, to add a coil split feature to a HB which doesn't have one. You add a lead from where the two coils are connected together and run it to ground; that takes one coil out of the circuit when you hit the switch.

 

I haven't seen any commercially available single coils with coil taps. I've made a couple and altered a couple existing pickups to have it. It has it's place, but the main thing is to start out with a decent sounding coil in the first place. IOW, winding a pickup so it could go from 3K to 6K would be pretty worthless; but if you had a nice sounding pickup and wanted a hotter sound without sacrificing what's already there you could add more wire. You'd start the new winding from the end of the original coil (at the eyelet) and add wire wound in the same direction and terminate it in its own new eyelet. Like if you had a clean Tele bridge pickup and wanted a "hot" option you could add some more 42 or even 43 or 44 to make it a dual sound single coil. That would be a major PITA on HB's.

[/quote']

 

The humbucker coil form wasn't really designed for adding coil taps like the F*nder style. Messing around

with the ends of #42awg requires a visor magnifier and some commercial enamel

insulation stripper. You can try to scrape off the insulation to get the solder to stick,

but it takes great care not to break the wire. Once you get into even thinner guages

like #43 or #44 like they use on the F*nder SCs, you definitely need some specialized

techniques to make those connections reliable.

 

Here's a web site to show the resistance vs #number of feet for 42-43-44.

 

As you can see, it takes several thousand turns of wire around the bobbin to make up

a 8k humbucker. Seth Lover in one of his last interviews believed it was around 5000

turns around the bobbin.

 

http://www.mwswire.com/barecu6.htm

 

I did that to a single coil bass pickup once and it really wasn't worth it because I also had the bass set up with cap selector switch (no pots). I think the pickup was about 7K of 42 and I added about 1.5K of 43, that's all there was room for; and switching the pickup from as original to overwound was about the same as going one cap larger on the cap switch. It's more useful on a guitar.

 

I would also think that #43 will have different inductance for the same number of windings as #42. And coil inductance has some bearing on the frequency response as well as the magnet type in a humbucker.

 

For instance; a Epiphone replica of a Gibson PAF BB2-AlNiCo II (DC Resistance of 8.4Kohms) has an inductance of 4.963Henries with a relative output of 6.75. (relative output scale of 1-10)

 

The slightly overwound version; BB3 (8.8Kohm) will have a inductance value of 5.38Henries and output of 7.75.

That 400 additional ohms of #42 will have a pronounced effect on the coil's inductance, output and frequency response.

 

Now take a Tony Iommi G-400, wound at 16.5K with an inductance of 11.5H equipped with both Alnico II + ceramic magnets.

(Blistering mids, razor sharp highs and a balanced low end).

This p_up is HOT at an output of 9.5 and is considered HOTTER than the Ace Frehley LP with the Dimarzio Super Distortion (ceramic) 13.65Kohms/ 6.57 H at a relative output of 9.0.

 

Selecting the right pickup for the type of music you play is the way to go, rather than fooling around adding taps

to existing coils, because sometimes it takes more than just some additional turns to get that specific sound.

[GlennW]

You don't need any special equipment to strip the insulation; a small piece of 400 (the black stuff) works. You fold it over on itself like a book, put the end of the wire in, apply a little pressure and pull. You'll break it a few times, but you develop a feel for it.

 

There are a couple of reasons for using a thinner wire for the add-on apart of the coil. There isn't much room left and you'll be able to more turns; and since the thinner wire sounds darker the difference will be more noticeable. Or you could add more of the same gauge. It's just a way to get different sounds from one pickup. Of course, there's always the fuzz.

 

You're right, there's a lot more to pickups than the wire.