kt620498 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 hello all, i am wondering if anyone has an opinion on the elitist casino vs the john lennon revolution casino, i've read about both and checked websites to try and gather information on both guitars. ive also been to some local shops and have only ever seen the elitist series in stock. so does anyone know of any differences between the two models. is the extra 1000 bucks for the revolution just going to the john lennon scholarship fund? thanks
cookieman15061 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Goes to Yoko.....too much is never enough (putting johns name and drawings on baby diapers didn't make her enough)
cookieman15061 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 but to answer your question... the difference between a reg casino and the elitist is a huge step up in quality materials and workmanship and definately worth the price. The difference between the elitist and the Lennon is in my opinion not worth the extra mulah unless I was a collector and buying it to put behind glass.
JefferySmith Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 hello all' date=' i am wondering if anyone has an opinion on the elitist casino vs the john lennon revolution casino, i've read about both and checked websites to try and gather information on both guitars. ive also been to some local shops and have only ever seen the elitist series in stock. so does anyone know of any differences between the two models. is the extra 1000 bucks for the revolution just going to the john lennon scholarship fund? thanks [/quote']Buying the Lennon model will make Yoko Ono more insanely wealthy. That's enough to make me avoid it. Get the Elitist. The huge price tag for the Lennon model is mostly "Oooooo Ahhhhh" factor. I'm skeptical about any charity that Yoko claims to have. She told Sean Lennon that he could have one of John's guitars, but didn't let him take the one he wanted. I think it was a Yamaha (not the famed Casino or Rickenbacker).
Red 333 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 hello all' date=' i am wondering if anyone has an opinion on the elitist casino vs the john lennon revolution casino, i've read about both and checked websites to try and gather information on both guitars. ive also been to some local shops and have only ever seen the elitist series in stock. so does anyone know of any differences between the two models. is the extra 1000 bucks for the revolution just going to the john lennon scholarship fund? thanks [/quote'] The Elitst and John Lennon Casinos are for the most part the same guitars, though there are some diferences: The Elitist is finished in poly (a nice thin coat, not as thick as a standard production model); the Revolution Casino has a very thin, satin nitrocellulouse laquer finish (similar to a Gibson faded series). While there is nothing wrong with a well-done, modern poly finish, I prefer the feel of laquer. That's just my preference, though. The Elitist has a bone nut and metal saddles; the Revolution has period correct corrian nut and nylon saddles. The corrian and nylon effect the attack and sustain characteristics. A note's attack falls off faster with the Revolution, and sustains slightly less long. It growls more. Unamplified, the Elitist has a more ringing acoustic quality. The Elitist has shorter trapeze tailpiece; The Revolution's is longer. This has slight effect on string tension and playability. The Elitist has the small Asian pots, short toggle switch, and plastic-covered wire; the Revolution has larger American pots, the longer style switch, and cloth-covered wire. The Elitist's headstock is flat; the Revolution's is beveled at the edges. The Elitist's frets are pushed into a bound neck; the Revolution has a bound neck and frets. The thumbwheels to raise and lower the bridge are larger on the Revolution. The Elitist has a three screw truss rod cover; the Revolution has a two-screw truss rod cover. The Elitsit's headstock is narrower at the widest point. The logo script inlay is a little thicker. These are the differences it's easy to see. The Revolution does sound somehwat different. You can explain some of the difference by the corrian and nylon, but there may be something else, too. I've never taken the covers off to look, but I've always suspected the pick ups are different. I have both Lennon Casinos and an Elitist Casino, by the way. Clearly, when comparing Elitist to Lennon Casino, a lot of the extra money you'd pay for the Lennon models is for potential collectable value or for sentimental value. Whether those or any of the musical attributes I've described to you is worth it is up to you. Both are EXCELLENT instruments, without a doubt. The Elitist is a flat out bargain. You should also note that in addition to any future collectable value, the Lennon models are priced competively with comparable and similarly well-built Gibsons. Red 333
frenchie1281734003 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Hi Red 333. That was a very good and thorough comparative appraisal you gave there, which I found most interesting. I thought previously that the electrics were the same on both Elitist and Lennon models!. A couple of things i`d like to know are, whether the inside neck joint is the same on both Elitist & Lennon models, and if there is any discernable difference in sound between the two Lennon models, considering their different finishes?.
Red 333 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Hi Red 333. That was a very good and thorough comparative appraisal you gave there' date=' which I found most interesting. I thought previously that the electrics were the same on both Elitist and Lennon models!. A couple of things i`d like to know are, whether the inside neck joint is the same on both Elitist & Lennon models, and if there is any discernable difference in sound between the two Lennon models, considering their different finishes?.[/quote'] Hi, Frenchie. Glad to add some more info to this occassional (but evergreen) topic. I'm always interested in what you and others write about the history, construction, and quality of the pre-Elitist Asian Casinos. Your collection is very nice. Both the Elitist and Lennon Casinos seem to have the same neck profile (though the headstock is bevelled on the Lennon models), and are set at the 16th fret. My inspection mirror's a little too big to get inside the f-hole, and I've never taken the PUPS off, so I can't give you any more clues about how the neck may be set. I do hear some difference between the '65 and Revolution Lennon models, but it could easily be explained as the difference between any two of the same model guitar as the finish. The Lennon does seem to take off on you a little quicker, but that's probably something only someone A/B-ing them would notice; they sound more similar than disimilar. I play the Elitist more and keep the Lennon twins in their cases, so they're only out for special occasions. Not using them daily (or often) makes hard to pinpoint the little things that would be the difference when discussing this kind of minutae (sp). They sound similar enough for MOST people, I'm sure, and MOST wouldn't hear a big difference between either of them and the Elitist. Again, the attack and sustain characteristcs are different between the Lennon and Elitist models, due I think, to the nylon and corrian. However, the Lennon models do both seem to have more bite and growl, which leads me to believe the pick ups may also be wound differently. Hey, you wrote about a source for the nylon saddles in a previous thread, didn't you? Was it AllParts? I'm sorry in advance if that was not you, and I confused you with someone else (who was probably a participant on a thread you were on, too.). Again, thanks for all the great past info on your collection of pre-Elitist Asian Casinos. Red 333
charlie brown Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Red, aren't the headstocks on the Revolution and 1965 Lennon versions a bit wider, at the top, as well? And isn't the "Epiphone" inlay a bit lower from the top, on those, as opposed to the "Elitist?" I have a Kalamazoo 1966 Casiono, and it's (as mentioned), different from the the Elitist. And, you're right...it does have slighly beveled edges, on the sides of the headstock, as well. CB
kt620498 Posted October 5, 2008 Author Posted October 5, 2008 just wanted to say thanks to everyone, great information, much more than i thought i would get! that pretty much answered my question....btw called the local shop today...elitist casino with hardshell for 1450....and thats the price given over the phone....i know they like to knock the price down somemore for regular customers so the final word is im really not looking to buy a revolution to sit on (for collecting purposes) im looking to get a great guitar to grow with and have until my fingers are riddled with arthritis, and by that time hopefully epiphone will have made a lap steel guitar.....thanks again
frenchie1281734003 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Hey, you wrote about a source for the nylon saddles in a previous thread, didn't you? Was it AllParts? I'm sorry in advance if that was not you, and I confused you with someone else (who was probably a participant on a thread you were on, too. Red you are right, it`s the six inch Trapeze tailpiece that Allparts do. But I do use the Gotoh Nashville Nickel Tune-o-matic bridge with plastic saddles (Item code GEP103B) on all my Casino`s, Zamminc on ebay do them at $10.00 a go, and I find them to be great for three reasons. 1) being a Nashville you get longer travel,and therefore no compromises on intonation. Plus they fit perfectly!. 2) No retaining wire, so no rattles!. 3) You get that mid sixties Honky Rhythm sound, like you described with the Lennon`s. One further thought about the differences between the Elitist and Lennon models, I have heard, and you can prove it one way or the other, that the Pickups in the Elitist are wax dipped, whereas those in the Lennon`s aren`t. Also I am glad you like my little collection, but I`d love to get my hands on yours, you lucky so and so!!. P.S. I`ve just seen my post, how do you do the quote thing?, I`m useless with computers.
charlie brown Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 P.S. I`ve just seen my post' date=' how do you do the quote thing?, i`m useless with computers.[/quote'] You just have to make sure the quote "brackets" [ ] (both sets) are at the beginning and end, of what you're quoting... I found that out, the hard way, too. LOL! CB
Red 333 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Red' date=' aren't the headstocks on the Revolution and 1965 Lennon versions a bit wider, at the top, as well? Andisn't the "Epiphone" inlay a bit lower from the top, on those, as opposed to the "Elitist?" I have a Kalamazoo 1966 Casiono, and it's (as mentioned), different from the the Elitist. And, you're right...it does have slighly beveled edges, on the sides of the headstock, as well. CB[/quote'] The headstock on the Lennon models is wider at the widest point. The logo script is also thinner. They seem to be in about the same place, relatively. I will edit the post above with info, in case (heaven forbid) someone actually uses the search function before asking the "what's the difference between..." question again, LOL.
Red 333 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 One further thought about the differences between the Elitist and Lennon models' date=' I have heard, and you can prove it one way or the other, that the Pickups in the Elitist are wax dipped, whereas those in the Lennon`s aren`t. [/quote'] Hmmm. Maybe that's why I think the PUPs may be different. From memory, I believe the Elitist's PUPs are waxed, as I recall (I THINK) wax coming throgh the holes on the covers when I was raising the adjusting scews. Not sure about the Lennon models, but I WILL look one day and solve this mystery for you. I had never heard that before so now I'm intrigued. Thanks for the info about the saddles and the Nashville bridge. Red 333
charlie brown Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 The headstock on the Lennon models is wider at the widest point. The logo script is also thinner. They seem to be in about the same place' date=' relatively. I will edit the post above with info, in case (heaven forbid) someone actually uses the search function before asking the "what's the difference between..." question again, LOL. [/quote'] Yeah, I thought so...on the headstock width. As to location of the logo script...I think they varied a bit, back then, so the one on the Lennon versions are like HIS, as opposed to being indicative of all, from that period. Thanks, Red... CB
frenchie1281734003 Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Charlie. Funny you should mention the h/stock script placement on the sixties Casino`s, I have found it to be the case that the script drops lower noticably in 1967, and is a surefire indicator of whether a guitar is a 64 or 67 (They shared the same serial blocks), the other indicator being Black knobs and Chrome h/ware on the 67. Believe it or not a few dodgy dealers out there take the 67 model, change the relevent parts and pass them off as the more desirable 64-66 guitars.
charlie brown Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Charlie. Funny you should mention the h/stock script placement on the sixties Casino`s' date=' I have found it to be the case that the script drops lower noticably in 1967, and is a surefire indicator of whether a guitar is a 64 or 67 (They shared the same serial blocks), the other indicator being Black knobs and Chrome h/ware on the 67. Believe it or not a few dodgy dealers out there take the 67 model, change the relevent parts and pass them off as the more desirable 64-66 guitars.[/quote'] Yeah Frenchie, nothing surprises me, when it comes to "making a buck!" My Casino is a '66, and it has the script logo that is lower on the headstock, as well as the wider upper portion. (Gibson confirmed it to be a '66, 25 years ago, by the way.) Plus, it has the more "pointed" upper bout horns, indicative of that period. The Gibson 330, and even the 335's of that period, had those more pointed horns, as well. http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq333/charliebrown1949/DSC_0014.jpg Cheers, CB
colimodio Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I would like to know about the "made in ..." that the Casinos and Elite (or Elitists) being refered to in these postings of these famous guitars. Some are Japaneese, and maybe some are USA..also some pictures would be educational to Epi Lennon heads. As to the pups, (and the tenon neck joint) these tell you a lot. I have a Gibson 339 and the Elitist 335, and i know, they are different guitars, but their tenons are very different. The Elitist so so well put toether. The pups are relatively easy to remove, just probably a new set of strings would make you do it? I'll post some: Lets see some pics.
TC5 Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 The Elitst and John Lennon Casinos are for the most part the same guitars' date=' though there are some diferences: The Elitist is finished in poly (a nice thin coat, not as thick as a standard production model); the Revolution Casino has a very thin, satin nitrocellulouse laquer finish (similar to a Gibson faded series). While there is nothing wrong with a well-done, modern poly finish, I prefer the feel of laquer. That's just my preference, though. The Elitist has a bone nut and metal saddles; the Revolution has period correct corrian nut and nylon saddles. The corrian and nylon effect the attack and sustain characteristics. A note's attack falls off faster with the Revolution, and sustains slightly less long. It growls more. Unamplified, the Elitist has a more ringing acoustic quality. The Elitist has shorter trapeze tailpiece; The Revolution's is longer. This has slight effect on string tension and playability. The Elitist has the small Asian pots, short toggle switch, and plastic-covered wire; the Revolution has larger American pots, the longer style switch, and cloth-covered wire. The Elitist's headstock is flat; the Revolution's is beveled at the edges. The Elitist's frets are pushed into a bound neck; the Revolution has a bound neck and frets. The thumbwheels to raise and lower the bridge are larger on the Revolution. The Elitist has a three screw truss rod cover; the Revolution has a two-screw truss rod cover. The Elitsit's headstock is narrower at the widest point. The logo script inlay is a little thicker. These are the differences it's easy to see. The Revolution does sound somehwat different. You can explain some of the difference by the corrian and nylon, but there may be something else, too. I've never taken the covers off to look, but I've always suspected the pick ups are different. I have both Lennon Casinos and an Elitist Casino, by the way. Clearly, when comparing Elitist to Lennon Casino, a lot of the extra money you'd pay for the Lennon models is for potential collectable value or for sentimental value. Whether those or any of the musical attributes I've described to you is worth it is up to you. Both are EXCELLENT instruments, without a doubt. The Elitist is a flat out bargain. You should also note that in addition to any future collectable value, the Lennon models are priced competively with comparable and similarly well-built Gibsons. Red 333 [/quote'] Great info. How do Chinese/Korean Casinos fit in with this? Are they essentially the same as Elitists in term of visual specs / general appearance besides being well... not made in Japan?
pohatu771 Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 If you are seriously considering a Lennon Casino, you should also look at the Gibson Custom Shop ES-330... Compare: Elitist Casino: Finish - Natural, Vintage Sunburst (poly) Neck joint - 16th fret Pickups - USA P-90, nickel Price ~$1500, Made in Japan Lennon Casino: Finish - Natural (Revolution), Vintage Sunburst (1965) (nitro) Neck joint - 16th fret Pickups - USA P-90, nickel Price ~$2600, Made in Japan, Assembled in USA Gibson ES-330: Finish - Vintage Suburst, Antique Red, Beale St. Blue (nitro) Neck joint - 19th fret Pickups - USA P-90, black plastic Price ~$2500, Made in USA Notes has a vintage ES-330, and several members have vintage Casinos, in addition to Elitist and Lennon models. If I were considering this, and could afford it, I'd go with the Gibson... that Beale St. Blue makes me weak... Unless I could find a great deal on it, I wouldn't even consider the Lennon models now that Gibson is making the ES-330 again.
frenchie1281734003 Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 If you are seriously considering a Lennon Casino' date=' you should also look at the Gibson Custom Shop ES-330... Compare: Elitist Casino: Finish - Natural, Vintage Sunburst (poly) Neck joint - 16th fret Pickups - USA P-90, nickel Price ~$1500, Made in Japan Lennon Casino: Finish - Natural (Revolution), Vintage Sunburst (1965) (nitro) Neck joint - 16th fret Pickups - USA P-90, nickel Price ~$2600, Made in Japan, Assembled in USA Gibson ES-330: Finish - Vintage Suburst, Antique Red, Beale St. Blue (nitro) Neck joint - 19th fret Pickups - USA P-90, black plastic Price ~$2500, Made in USA Notes has a vintage ES-330, and several members have vintage Casinos, in addition to Elitist and Lennon models. If I were considering this, and could afford it, I'd go with the Gibson... that Beale St. Blue makes me weak... Unless I could find a great deal on it, I wouldn't even consider the Lennon models now that Gibson is making the ES-330 again.[/quote'] I`d be tempted if Gibson reissued the ES330 with the 16th fret neck joint, I just don`t think they look as good with the long neck.
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