Changing Sheraton Pickups

[tkingen]

Hello,

 

Newbie to this forum and I have a question! I just acquired a 2001 Ebony Sheraton and I'd like to swap out the pickups for some Burstbucker Pros. I've done pickups in Les Paul's, Tele's and Strat's, but never a 335 style guitar. Is there anywhere I can get instructions for the best method to do this? While I'm in there might as well replace the pots, switch and jack, too.

 

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

[jcwillow777]

Congrats on your new Sherry.

 

If I was changing pickups in my Sherry, which I already did, I would replace everything. It doesn't cost that much more, especially if you are doing it yourself.

 

There was a really good thread on this on the old forum, but it no longer exists. There were some posts here on that subject, but I don't thinlk all of the posts are still here. There are quite a few guys here that have done this, so you should be able to get the help you need. You might want to google a search on it too.

 

Bottom line is that the wiring harness, not the pickups, has to be fished in and out of the f-hole. Use some kind of light string, fishing line, fish the line down through the holes and attach the string to the part to come to that particular hole. It takes a lot of patience, but is very do-able.

 

How about a pic of your guitar, we like pics here. Just post in on photobucket.com - it's free - and paste the link in you message.

 

Good luck

[TWANG]

mojo.com has a video on the pots. watch that no matter what you decide.

Once you're in there, it's foolish, I think, not to redo the pots and caps and switch.

Because it's hard to do.. you are better off doing all at once.

 

What I do is mount the pots switch and jack on cardboard.. then solder it all up outside the guitar.

you can take your time, get the wire runs short..

 

and even change which pot does which.. which I did to a customer in here by mistake! and he was nice enough not to clobber me..

(I like the volume controls front.. tone controls rear.. and forgot somehow doing his that he didn't ask for that. sheesh!)

 

you may need mini pots.. if you've got a regular or mini pot around you can try to slip that through your f holes. which is how you have to do it..

and you'll see if you need a mini or not. some don't. I did.

 

Having a very clear picture in your mind as to how things go in.. will help you to know when things aren't going right.

this job is a hassle for the f hole threading which leads to wire tangles, and stress at the solder joints.

 

you wind up with a shielded wire touching a hot connection, or the like. and it shorts out.. stuff like that.

 

don't be shocked to have to pull it all out and do it again. especially first time.. just be patient and it'll work.

 

look for cts or alpha or cge pots. I've had very good luck with all.

get yourself a long shaft output jack.. the short one tends to come loose and then it falls into the hole sometimes, may as well get a good one.

switchcraft or equal quality.

 

I like sprague orange drop or the yellow mallory caps but rat shack greenies are probably just as good.

hey mojo is cool.. those orange drops look really neato.. even if you never see them again. *L*

 

one thing I did was use a string into the output jack hole.. then through the jack itself.. then a large rubber washer was tied to that end of the string.. then another string connected so that after I pulled the jack through the hole and tightened down the nut, I could pull the other end of the string to get that washer out.. it want's to hook up in there and sometimes wont fall out.. anyway. that worked faster for me.

 

take a look at mojotone picture of the internal pot harness.. and copy that.. think of it as a wheel you spin into the holes.

and remember, it's worth it in the end so.. struggle along and be happy.

 

TWANG

[stan 58]

You could always use the cheat method, works for me. Stan.

[lpdeluxe]

I've posted this several times, but here goes:

 

I got my '95 Sheraton II last summer and immediately decided it needed better pickups, so I ordered the Seymour Duncan "Silver" set (Jazz neck, JB bridge) from MF. Then I was confronted with the problem of installing them. My local tech turned down the job!

 

Apparently Sheratons are not all the same. Mine was made at the Samick factory in Korea, and has small f-holes and no access route through the pickup cavities. Gibson ES-335s and maybe some other Sheratons do, and that makes life easier.

 

Here's what I did: the Mojo Assemblies pots are too big to fit through the opening of the f-hole, which on mine is 1" x .75" at its largest. That part of the f-hole is any where from 2" to 8" away from the various components, so that has to be kept in mind when cutting the wiring to length.

 

I stole the idea from Mojo of using a template, which I made from a piece of cardboard and a set of leather punches. I measured the distances to all the controls, and punched holes for them in the same relative position on the cardboard as on the guitar top.

 

My Epi had one noisy pot and a noisy switch, so I ordered new "mini" pots from Stewart-McDonald (part # 3477) along with a three-way switch (#1217), an output jack (#4652) and two of their basic wiring packages (#4575), which include .020 and .050 caps for the tone controls. It took most of both wiring kits for the Epiphone, so don't scrimp.

 

The Seymour Duncans came with a wiring diagram, as did the three-way switch, and both offer different options. I hose to wire them up as conventional humbuckers and to wire the switch to allow using the volume controls to blend the pickups when using both -- don't worry, it's all in the diagrams.

 

I put the new pots, switch and jack in the template from the bottom so they'd lay out like the real ones from the top, and then wired them from the bottom side. I used a Sharpie to label the holes on the underside. Very easy to keep track of that way.

 

You'll probably need to roughen the surface of the pot body where you solder the grounds in order for the solder to stick. Another tip: turn the shafts on the pots all the counterclockwise (off) to avoid damaging them from heat.

 

The .020 cap goes on the bridge tone control and the .050 on the neck pot. This emulates Gibson wiring, which uses .022 and .047 values, respectively. Before you solder the cap leg to the pot body, put an alligator clip on to act as a heat sink so you don't fry it with the soldering iron.

 

Solder up everything but the wires from the pickups, and make sure all the parts share a ground by checking with a multimeter. Otherwise you'll put it together and get a nice hum and have to take it all apart again. Trust me -- I know.

 

Use the shielded wire between the switch and the output jack, and between the volume and tone pots. Since I actually disemboweled my Epi before I got this far, I used the sleeves provided in the original harness to dress all the wires before soldering. Always allow a bit of slack for the shield wire to reach to the back of the pot, where you'll be soldering it to ground.

 

The SD pickups have 5 wires coming out of them: red, white, green, black and silver (bare). Strip the ends of the red and white wires, twist them together and secure the join with solder, then put heat shrink tubing over the bare part to insulate them. The leads were a little too short for comfort, so I soldered the green and bare wires together (they both go to ground, you're not shorting out anything) and spliced in a 5" length of the white wire to them, covering all the joints with heat shrink. Then I spliced another 5" to the black wire and covered the joint with heat shrink; I repeated this operation for the second pickup.

 

Note that other brands have different color coding, but the principal doesn't change. In my experience, all pickup makers provide full wiring diagrams, and Stewart-McDonald has others at their website.

 

When I was done I had two leads from each pickup, a white to connect to ground and a black to connect to hot.

 

Time to work on the Sheraton: set her on a towel on your workbench with the peghead to your right (reverse for a lefty), loosen the strings enough to work the stop tailpiece off its studs, and lay it down on the other side of the neck from you. If you're going to restring anyway, just go ahead and take the strings off.

 

Take an ice cube tray (if your refrigerator doesn't have one, dollar stores do) and lay it behind the guitar where you won't be knocking it over. This is where you'll keep the screws and washers and springs and other little gubbinses organized.

 

Wrap a cloth under the edge of each knob and lift: it will pull right off. Occasionally you'll find one that needs more persuasion, but be wary of using screwdrivers or other tools, because it's really easy for it to slip and mar the top. When possible I put something between the tool and the top to minimize dings.

 

The switch knob unscrews (you were wondering why it didn't pull right off!). Then undo the nuts on the various controls and push them down through the holes in the guitar top. Take out the screws holding the pickup rings and lift out the pickups from their cavities, clip the leads that go into the guitar interior (I enjoy that part), and disassemble the pickups from their rings, being careful not to lose the springs -- even though the new ones come with springs, it's easier than you might think to watch them arc up into the air and drop behind some unmovable object.

 

Using a thin, bent wire (a large paper clip that's been straightened out except for one loop is perfect) fish the wires inside the body out through the f-hole and pull the controls out. It might be imprudent at this point to start snipping wires, because you want everything to come out with a minimum of fuss.

 

Identify the wire coming from the tailpiece or bridge: this is the string ground, and you'll be soldering it into the circuit later.

 

Then attach the pickups to the rings. Note that the thin ring is the neck pickup, and the narrower end is against the fingerboard, and that the pole pieces on the pickups are also next to the neck. The thick ring is for the bridge, and the thicker end -- and the pole pieces -- are toward the bridge. Pickup springs are devils without any horns, let me tell you. What I do is put the pickup in the ring, and run the screw on one side to the flange on the side of the pickup where it screws in. That makes it easier to put the other screw in place, put its spring around it, and compress the whole assembly while screwing that side in. Then you repeat the fun for the other side, and maybe 2-3 hours later, you've got the

spring mounted nicely between the rings and the flanges. It's useful to make sure the floor underneath the workbench is clear of obstruction for the many times you'll be on your hands and knees, retrieving the springs. If somebody knows an easier way, feel free to chime in!

 

Finally, solder the pickup leads to the harness. You may have to remove the harness from the template for this step. If so, be sure to have a protective cover over the guitar top to avoid boogers in your finish.

 

Now we're at the fun and games stage of the whole catastrophe. Take a length of string long enough to reach from the wide part of the f-hole to the output jack, allow a few more inches, and tie one end so that you can pull it up into the hole. Using the bent paper clip, fish the string from inside the guitar up through the jack hole in the guitar body (mine required two steps: fishing to the neck tone hole, then from there to the output hole, because my paper clip wasn't long enough. That's the only time I had to do that). Pull the jack up into the hole (a thin jeweler's screwdriver is useful in persuading it to come up straight); grip the end of the jack securely with your fingers or needlenose pliers while you cut the string as far inside the jack as you can, then install the flat washer and nut. Damn, that sounds easy...but if it doesn't work right away, try, try again. Pretty soon -- after a day or so -- you'll get good at it!

 

Then do each pot in turn (I started with the one closest to the jack, and worked my way up), remembering to put a star washer on the shaft of the pot before you tie the string on. Patience, patience, patience. As soon as each pot is sticking its lovely little shaft straight up in its hole, untie the string and pull it out, never letting go of the pot. You will likely have to drop the pot down a fraction of an inch in order to pull out the end of the string, but maybe you'll get lucky, or have better knot-tying skills than I do: I always seem to end up with a bit of a tail past the knot.

 

The switch is the last to go in, and then you are done with that part. Take up the slack in the leads coming from the pickups and fold them into the pickup cavity. This is a chance to make it look perhaps a little more professional. Attach the pickups and string it up (or, replace the tailpiece and tune it up). Leave the knobs off until you've had a chance to test your work. I plug into a tuner and make sure the tuner recognizes the notes from each switch position...then I plug into an amp for the final test before I put the knobs back on.

 

Have fun and good luck...and avoid telephone hookup wire: it's solid core and the solder joints break easily while you're working everything into place. Guess how I know that?

[GlennW]

Check my avatar for a picture of a handy home made tool for fishing the output jack. You have to dismantle a 1/4" phone plug and SECURELY attach a piece of wire to it. Feed it through the jack hole, plug it in and pull...works great. I got the idea form Dan Erlewine's book on guitar repair (very good book to have).

[BobSkippy]

Hello' date='

 

Newbie to this forum and I have a question! I just acquired a 2001 Ebony Sheraton and I'd like to swap out the pickups for some Burstbucker Pros. I've done pickups in Les Paul's, Tele's and Strat's, but never a 335 style guitar. Is there anywhere I can get instructions for the best method to do this? While I'm in there might as well replace the pots, switch and jack, too.

 

Any information would be [i']greatly[/i] appreciated!

 

tkingen,

If you want to cheat just a bit, you can cut the wire from the old pickups close to the pickup - so you don't have to pull the whole wiring harness out - then solder the new pickup wires to the old, and voila! :-)

 

-Bob

[tkingen]

Wow... I'm overwhelmed with the responses. You guys are great!

I'm going to take this in stages. First, play the Sherry for awhile to make sure I'm going to bond with it. If that goes well I'll try BobSkippy's method to make sure new pickups will make it even better. Then, if all goes well with that I'll follow lpdeluxe's directions (along with the suggestions from everyone else) to seal the deal.

 

Something I just noticed - the pole pieces on the stock pickups don't matchup with the string spacing. Is this normal?

[BobSkippy]

Something I just noticed - the pole pieces on the stock pickups don't matchup with the string spacing. Is this normal?

 

tkingen,

It's been known to happen, yeah. :-)

 

-Bob

[tkingen]

Well, last night I replaced the stock pickups with BB Pro's via Bob's method. The difference is amazing. Why does Epiphone use such cheap sounding pickups in the first place? For some reason the pole screws seem to line up better, too!

The only problem is the BB's have chrome covers. Haven't decided yet whether that's worth obsessing over. I may just leave it the way it is 'cause the mismatch is kinda cool.

Anyway, thanks again for all your great suggestions. If I can find an Epi LP that feels as good as this Sheraton my Gibby LP may go up for sale!

[finnster]

Well' date=' last night I replaced the stock pickups with BB Pro's via Bob's method. The difference is amazing. Why does Epiphone use such cheap sounding pickups in the first place? [/quote']

 

Hmm. So people will still buy Gibsons? I'm getting the pickups swapped out of my Sherry too. I went for the Classic 57 combo tho. Hope it makes as big a positive difference for me! I just love my Sheraton. Even with the pricey new pickups it's still only a third of the cost of a 335. How do the other Epiphone models compare to their Gibson equivilents? Anybody tried the Elite series? How are the Les Paul variants?

[TWANG]

I bought the les paul studio.. sunburst.

adding grover locking tuners and a bigsby soon.

already put in a bone nut.

CTS pots. Sprague caps, Switchcraft three way, foil shielding in all cavitys.

Kent Armstrong pickups, Hot P90 neck, Vintage Humbuck bridge.

 

I'm afraid to add it all up now!

But so far, worth every cent in sound and plays like butter.

 

oh yeah, added a gibson pickguard. mine came with a scratch, so what the heck.

and straplocks.

 

that's replacing just about everything on it that can be replaced.

Original bracket on the guard.

But switched the knobs to dark amber to match the burst better.

 

 

I don't know how to say this in any more original way than has been said by many in this and other forums.

Sure, much better wood would give this guitar better sound.

But three grand worth of wood? Or even two grand?

 

Let's assume a medium cost on all the stuff above.

330.00 guitar

70.00 case

110.00 bigbsy

30.00 bridge

110.00 pups

10.00 nut

50.00 tuners

12.00 straplocks

35.00 pots switches

5.00 sheild foil, wire

bigsby vibramate adaptor price unknown as yet.

 

750.00 would be a bit high for actual street price cost, if you shopped around.

 

I have no regrets and I have lots of guitars.

 

Go with the elitist 57 goldtop at sweetwater, and you wouldn't have to change a thing.

Choose from a couple of epi models which have the better pickups, and you're in the same price range, lp wise.

 

I got the fun of doing it myself, price break being a parts dealer, the advantage of choosing exactly what I wanted and not having to settle for

epis choices on everything, and in the end it all added up just right.

 

But I have to say, at 1100.00, that elitist goldtop looks to me to be one of the best guitar deals you could make on an lp.

 

I think you get a case with that, too.

 

And there's your epi story.. top to bottom they do offer a LOT Of guitar.

 

If I did my frets .. just very very lightly, they are near perfect now.. I bet it would stand up to gibsons plek system, too.

and five or six months of play have left only some small finish imperfections from clothes, etc.

really sturdy.. neck is solid as can be..

So I think I got my moneys worth for sure.

I think just about anyone could find an epi they liked and kept.

 

TWANG

[lpdeluxe]

I guess I'm an apostate: I traded off my natural '95 Sheraton II when I found a bargain ES-335. also natural. But I agree with everything Twang said. I had about $420 invested in the Sheraton, with Seymour Duncan Anniversary pickups, creme pickup rings and switch knob, and all new pots and wiring. In contrast to my Gibson Les Paul, which has pearloid fingerboard inlays, the Epi has real mother of pearl and abalone; the feel of the neck and the overall look of the guitar were great.

 

The Gibson has nicer, lightly figured wood, and much plainer trim (dot inlays, the crown peghead inlay, nickel hardware). But it sounds better than the Epiphone did, even with the upgraded pickups: the Gibson's acoustic tone is less trebley, and it has a more Gibson sound to it. In playing both through my Blues Jr or Jazzmaster Ultralight or modified Pignose G40V or Silvertone Twin Twelve, the difference is obvious. The Sheraton has an obtrusive top end, the ES-335 is more mid-rangey. I had to roll off the treble on every amp with the Epi; not so with the Gibson.

 

However, had I not happened across the Gibson, I'd still have the Epiphone. It's a good looking instrument, and perfect for when the "Baptist Blues Band" (as the pastor calls us) plays at church. But the opportunity to get a Gibson, with its improved sound and much higher resale value, was its undoing. Neither will replace my one true love, which is a '70 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, but that's a well-used road warrior that doesn't look as nice in the church environment.

 

I traded the Sheraton for a Fender Classic '50s Precision bass, so I got more out of it than I put into it.

 

AND I learned how to rewire an f-hole, no small factor.