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Is Guitar Center/Musican's Friend/Music 123 in dire financial straits?


charlie brown

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Well the simple fact is if the music industry doesn't support the Independent Dealers than it can't complain when a major company like GC/MF who they've put all the eggs with goes belly up. I am in the Bicycle Business and most of the major bicycle manufacturers like TREK' date=' Giant, Specialized, Cannondale, etc... will not sell through Big Box stores or online stores... thus supporting the Independent Dealers and not undercutting our margins and profits. Sure they have minimums and stuff to be a dealer... but they work under the goal of making ALL their dealers successful. And we are still Independent and can make our own choices as to what we want to carry in our markets. Free market economy does still work, and some companies are still making a killing at it.... Trek Bicycles is make'n big money, even in a bad economy. Why? Because it leaves the selling of their product to the people that do it best... Independent Dealers who live and breath the sport because they love it. Not some huge obese big box store that doesn't even know your name!

 

I can't tell you how many times I've gone into GC and found the sales guy knew nothing about Guitars... "oh, sorry I don't play guitar... I play drums... but it looks like a pretty sweet guitar"!!!!! The name of the place is GUITAR CENTER for crap sake!! That would be like someone coming into my Bike Shop and asking me a question and me saying "Oh, sorry I don't ride bikes... I'm into Rollerblades"!!!! WTF!!

 

I was happy when Mars went down the can... and I'll be happy when GC does too!! Serves the greedy music business right for trying to bypass the Free Market!!! [/quote']

 

Good points and you are right on IMHO. I was a dealer for quite a few commercial audio and video lines that I no longer do business with for exactly that reason...no dealer loyalty at all. One of them is Bose... one the biggest whores in the audio industry they have even been known to go in and snake customers from dealers by promising lower prices direct! I've seen it happen! WTF? Another is LG who was supposed to have a line only available from authorised dealers but when those models started showing up @ Walmart and Bestbuy that exclusive dealer stuff was bullsh#t too! I could buy screens from Bestbuy's commercial network for less than I got them including shipping as an authorized dealer! HELLO! The worst of the worst for me was Crown Amps.....and they used to be a really good company to work with, but then they started whoring out the line and making cheap crap sold in GC and that's pretty much all they do now. Most of the large commercial guys I know are using other lines when they used to sell only Crown......and I'm talking a sh#tload of amps nationwide!

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I hope GC doesn't go down. Even with all their problems it is so nice to be able to drive 4 miles and spend a couple hours playing with all their "toys". There's never any pressure, they are very happy to help get guitars down off the wall and they'll happily answer questions, when they can.

 

I don't expect them to know all the answers, but I can get all the information I need on-line. In fact, I often know more about a guitar than they do.

 

And, I assure you, any major disruption in the guitar distribution market will not be good for anyone.

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The only time my money goes to retail stores like GC or any others is if I'm in a bind and need something fast, like strings or a setup,wiring,effects,straps things they cant rip you off on. I have never bought a guitar from any retail shop and never will. Why pay for thier overhead cost. Besides all you really are to them is a $ sign. The only one in those stores I respect are the luthiers. All the rest could give a **** less about us. Find your guitars local on craigslist or take the gamble on Ebay.

I've been doing that for more then 10 years now and have had great results. Besides I would rather give my money to someone like myself who needs it more then a big retailer. There is always somebody out there with a almost new guitar that needs money or just gave up learning to play. Online shopping is the future and for us old farts (like me) its time we move forward. I cant tell you the money I have saved and the gems I have found online.

But heres a few. The only ones I paid more then $250.00 for were the starts & the Gibson SG and they were under $400.00 w/hard cases. So believe you me the deals are out there to be had.

 

2005 Epi 56 reissue gold top w/hard case $250.00 Craigslist

2006 Epi Dot faded w/hard case $150.00 Ebay

Epi Bass $72 Craiglist

Epi Scooter Prototype $200.00

Morgan Monroe Temptest $250.00

Dorbo Solid Body Electric $250.00

And many more

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IbanezGAX7018.jpg

EpiWildkat200314.jpg

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EpiLesPaulClassic20049.jpg

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My brother works in retail for one of the bigger companies that seems decently respected 'round here at the moment, and he tells me they sell under MAP, but just can't print or post the prices anwhere. He says the more you buy the more they'll go under that MAP figure, but if you just call up and say "hey sell me this" then they quote you the MAP price.

 

 

 

Yeah' date=' this stuff is illegal. Used to be called "fair trade pricing" years ago. It was especially rampant in the appliance and television business. The rational was/is that the manufacturers are "protecting" the smaller dealers who can't match prices of the big dealers. It's called "price fixing". It was banned several years ago, yet it's still being done. Mfr's tell dealers to sell at "Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price" or lose the contract.

 

But, take a look at the pricing structures; Mfr's "list" or the higher of the pricing structure, is higher than "suggested retail", and suggested retail is higher than "lowest discount" price. Look at any online dealer and compare prices on say, an Epi LP Standard. They're all the same; MF, GC, 123, Sweetwater, every one sells the guitar at "rock bottom" we'll match any deal" price. Of course they will. All the prices are the same!

 

However I must say I've never had a bad experience at either of the two semi-local GC's. I always got a discount and usually a second "sweetener". I just posted the deal I made on a Roland Micro Cube. Same with a Dot, a LP, and a couple Ibanez.

 

So whether GC et al are in trouble is possibly true but most likely because of the economy, IMO.

 

I could be wrong. [/quote']

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Mad Mike is correct. Buying a used guitar makes sense. It gives you the best value. I've bought guitars on e bay and CL and have never had a problem.

 

I disagree with him that GC is taking advantage of anyone. Retailers have to make money. And why do you expect them to care about you? It's their job to try and get as much money as they can for a guitar. It's your job to pay as little as you can. It's just business. I've been in there enough to see them treat the scruffiest looking kid the same as they treat a dignified, rich looking gentleman.

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I disagree with him that GC is taking advantage of anyone. Retailers have to make money. And why do you expect them to care about you? It's their job to try and get as much money as they can for a guitar. It's your job to pay as little as you can. It's just business. I've been in there enough to see them treat the scruffiest looking kid the same as they treat a dignified' date=' rich looking gentleman.[/quote']

 

I agree, they are in business to make money, but, as with many other companies, there does appear to be at least some misleading ad copy. But within a narrow market, that may alternately amuse or annoy customers.

 

For example, if you search the GC/MF web sites for Gibson LP Studio, you'll see they show MSRP at 2169, with case.

So to the unaware, the GC price of 1409 looks like a good deal.

 

Then check Gibsons site. It says MSRP for LP Studio is 1649, with case.

 

550$ difference in stated MSRP.

 

That said, I do not have a problem with GC, either on-line or in person.

The 100 mile round trip is a pain, but for what I saved over web order, plus actually having more than 1 LH guitar in the store, (providing the ability to actually play before purchase) makes a difference.

 

Since the guitar had been hanging on the wall for some time, they were willing to deal to move stock;

out the door price was significantly lower than the web price :-k

 

 

AJ

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I agree' date=' they are in business to make money, but, as with many other companies, there does appear to be at least some misleading ad copy. But within a narrow market, that may alternately amuse or annoy customers.

 

For example, if you search the GC/MF web sites for Gibson LP Studio, you'll see they show MSRP at 2169, with case.

So to the unaware, the GC price of 1409 looks like a good deal.

 

Then check Gibsons site. It says MSRP for LP Studio is 1649, with case.

 

550$ difference in stated MSRP.

 

That said, I do not have a problem with GC, either on-line or in person.

The 100 mile round trip is a pain, but for what I saved over web order, plus actually having more than 1 LH guitar in the store, (providing the ability to actually play before purchase) makes a difference.

 

Since the guitar had been hanging on the wall for some time, they were willing to deal to move stock;

out the door price was significantly lower than the web price :-k

 

 

AJ

[/quote']

 

As with any business purchase, "Buyer beware!" In reference to your differing list price example, I can only

say "Scratch a Liar, Find a Thief!"

 

CB

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I do agree retail chains do have to make a profit. But that being said its one thing to have a reasonable IMU and then again its another thing to rip off people who have no idea. I work for a retail chain (Home Depot) and understand how mark ups work and the cost of overhead to run a company. I also understand how bad management can kill your company in a short period of time. And I'm not saying that building a relationship with a local retailer is a bad thing. But for me personaly I find it hard to deal with them. Its not like most people have the money to buy a guitar every month and build a repor with these retailers to get a price break. The bottom line is thier in this to make as much money as they can. And I feel better having my money go to someone that needs to pay thier electric bill or something like that. And I have an answer to this problem that I will make a reality some day. I'm going to open a Local music store that sells only lightly used guitars and instuments at a reasonable price. That way you get the touchy/feely and a great price.

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...

I was happy when Mars went down the can... and I'll be happy when GC does too!! Serves the greedy music business right for tring to bypass the Free Market!!!

 

Well' date=' I don't know what your experience with Mars was, but let me stand up for the Albany, NY Mars Music center. They truly were a great place. Everybody I interacted with was guitar-cool. The managers and the floor people were true lovers of the instruments and knowledgeable to boot.

 

Ever have a sales-person convince you not to trade in your bass? How about a sales person and the manager? I have a kind of custom Cort 5 string (basically a copy of the soundgears) with a sweet *** wenge neck... best neck I have ever played. But I wanted a J-bass. I brought my Cort in, and both of them told me it was really nice, but for the price they could afford to buy it I should just keep it.

 

The sales guy went further than that. He insisted on playing it since I brought it in. [i found out later, after 6 months of private lessons from him, that he is a pro-player with endorsements.'] He played the crap out of it, and told me point blank that if I sold it to them or traded it in, he would take it home with him.

 

I attended info nights where they deomonstrated how to oil up your guitars, etc. One of the other managers who was running the event told me to buy the (I think it was cocoa butter?) from CVS pharmacy rather than spend money on a guitar product there. Oh, and then they gave away a strat and a bunch of music books (I got a country music book).

 

Now, these may not add up to the best business model, but you can't say they lacked heart or love for the players. And you could play anything, just like at GC. I really felt bad for them when Mars folded.

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Everybody I interacted with was guitar-cool. The managers and the floor people were true lovers of the instruments and knowledgeable to boot.

 

It seems to be the same way in a lot of the GC's I've visited, a lot of guitar-cool guys. Unfortunately this doesn't translate into making money/staying in business in tough times. If they're smart they'll get their online operation rolling and make it ultra-competitive (not accomplishing that so far) and realize that the stores are going to be more like showrooms. Carry less inventory, have less staff, and depend on online orders. Make money on lessons, repairs, etc.

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Its a 3-headed monster. GC provides touchy-feely and show a brick-and-mortar price, MF and M123 split the lower-priced internet sale generated by GC and HQ is happy with both the strategy and the bottom line. I think that's why the GC online stuff hasn't been pushed as hard as the other 2.

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Its a 3-headed monster. GC provides touchy-feely and show a brick-and-mortar price' date=' MF and M123 split the lower-priced internet sale generated by GC and HQ is happy with both the strategy and the bottom line. I think that's why the GC online stuff hasn't been pushed as hard as the other 2.[/quote']

 

Well unless you live under a rock and don't ask...all the prices are the same? They are all the same company.

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