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Epiphone Elite series


moco858934

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I just realized all but the Epiphone Elite casino has been discontinued.Does anyone know why?

 

Mike from Boston

 

My guess is that they're no longer profitable to produce and ship them to the U.S. At the point of their conception Japan was having economic problems and a weak Yen so Epiphone was probably able to negotiate a contract to produce them with an acceptable margin. Ten years later the economic climate has changed considerably and that margin isn't present at what Epiphone would need to sell them to be competitive so they're going by the way side. I expect a lot of Asian imports (guitars and everything else) to suffer from the increased shipping costs and diminishing market due to the economic climate.

 

 

Nelson

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Me personally have had one on back order with Mf for around 50 days.

You might want to cancel that order and keep an eye on eBay. If an online seller (like MF) is claiming that they are "backordered" I would suspect that they are getting them from third party sources too... like eBay Stores.

 

Curt

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I live in Tennessee and work in Nashville on occasion. Met a guy who worked for Epiphone. He has his own stable of Elitists, and I showed him my Elite LP, and he said that even the guys who build Gibsons say they are without question better guitars because of the craftsmanship. Gibson's quality has gone to crap, and it's hard to justify 3 grand for a poorly built and setup guitar, just because it says Gibson on the headstock.

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I live in Tennessee and work in Nashville on occasion. Met a guy who worked for Epiphone. He has his own stable of Elitists' date=' and I showed him my Elite LP, and he said that even the guys who build Gibsons say they are without question better guitars because of the craftsmanship. Gibson's quality has gone to crap, and it's hard to justify 3 grand for a poorly built and setup guitar, just because it says Gibson on the headstock.[/quote']

 

Intersting. Did your friend elaborate, on WHY "Gibson's quality has gone to crap?" And/or WHY they don't do

something about that?! They certainly charge enough, to warrant the best craftmanship possible, for

a "mass production" guitar company. I have a recent "Lucille" that is immaculate, in craftsmanship, tone,

and playability! While I'd never argue that "Elitist" guitars are wonderfully made, it may be more about

consistency? I have seen some $4000-5000 (retail) priced Gibby's with "orange peel" in the finish...mostly

in the headstock area. That's pretty sad. But, not ALL of them, are like that. QC or final inspection, seems

to be a bit inconsistent. And, pricing on Gibby's seems a bit "out there," to me.

 

Ironically, my 499 dollar Chinese Epiphone Riviera P-93LE, is beautifully constructed, has a great (Poly) finish,

and sounds trerrific. If that's any indication, of what's to come from Quingdao, with any consistency...Gibson

had best be paying attention, I'll grant you that. Especially give the current economy!

 

CB

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I never, ever understood discontinuing the Elitist semis and archtops. I can see how the Elitists could compete with Gibson's own product in terms of the solid bodies, when a Gibson Les Paul Studio sells for $1300, and an Elitist Les Paul Standard sells for $1250 at Sweetwater. But with the exception of the Elitist Casino, there is now nothing between the standard Sheraton ($699) and a Gibson ES-339 ($1800) or ES-335 plain-top ($2500). So those folks looking for a higher-middle priced semi might just be tempted towards other brands...Yamaha SA2200 anyone?

 

I agree that the Japanese economic situation may have had something to do with it, but I reckon the Gibson / Epiphone competition was part of it too. Remember the first Elitist to get the chop was the SG (of all the models this was closest in retail price to a "real" Gibson model - a fair bit cheaper than an SG Standard, and some would say every bit as good as that guitar, if not better). Also, Gibson seems to have been introducing lower-priced Gibson products in recent years, such as the DC-faded in TV yellow...

 

274063.jpg

 

....which I was convinced I really wanted, needed, whatever (right up until I played one...), and I guess the Elitist line could have been depleting those sales (a top notch Epi being a better guitar than a cut-price Gibson).

 

Ultimately, though, Gibson owns Epiphone - so they are basically competing with themselves anyway, so none of it makes any sense to me...if you're selling something you manufactured, at a profit - where's the problem?!

 

When the Elitists first began to be noticed, I heard people say: "Who's going to pay over a grand for an Epiphone? - you could almost get a Gibson for that." Um...the Elitists never seemed to hang around for long on guitar stores' racks though, did they? So somebody was buying them.

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Hey, I got one of those "TV Yellow" faded double cuts. I'd seen one, so I knew what I was getting,

and the only thing I've done to it, is change the tuners (for Grover Rotomatics), and replace the pickguard,

with a 5 ply version. Those things were done because I wanted that look, and not because they needed

to be. I do think the Grovers have helped, the sustain, a bit...but, that might be wishful thinking, too? LOL!

Anyway, it sounds great..."Bargain Basement" or not. I've even thought about getting the "Red" one, too. ;>)

 

CB

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Hey' date=' I got one of those "TV Yellow" faded double cuts. I'd seen one, so I knew what I was getting,

and the only thing I've done to it, is change the tuners (for Grover Rotomatics), and replace the pickguard,

with a 5 ply version. Those things were done because I wanted that look, and not because they needed

to be. I do think the Grovers have helped, the sustain, a bit...but, that might be wishful thinking, too? LOL!

Anyway, it sounds great..."Bargain Basement" or not. I've even thought about getting the "Red" one, too. ;>)

 

CB[/quote']

 

Granted...to be honest, I still want one, I really do! Maybe the one I played was just a lousy one...wouldn't stay in tune for love nor money and the set-up was all to hell. Neck joint didn't seem as clean as one would expect either. My thought at the time was that for the same price as, say, a top-end Mexican Fender, the boys in Baja California were providing better bang-for-buck.

 

Still...we should encourage affordable Gibsons! I'm still gassing for one of those babies, so if I find a nice one...

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I can't help thinking that Epi's having a bit of a corporate identity crisis. Back in the 90's, they went full-swing into being Gibson's version of Squier - making affordable, decent-quality copies of big-brother Gibson's guitars. Something they still do quite well. But it seems that lately, Epiphone's own legacy models - the Casinos, Riveras, etc., are really coming into their own as desirable instruments. Between the normal models and the Elitist series, they were making their own "Real ones" and "Copies."

I wonder if this ruffled some feathers among traditionalists at Gibson who don't want to see Epi on an equal footing.

Another theory:

I recently sold a 90's Korean Sheraton II to buy a new Chinese Casino. And while the Sheraton was nice, the Casino (ltd edition w/bigsby) just blows it away. Not just the playing and the sound, but just knocking on the wood, it feels and sounds better. Not at all cheap-feeling.

Maybe the Elites outlived their usefulness?

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I've even thought about getting the "Red" one' date=' too. ;>)

 

CB[/quote']

 

Well, if you're serious about that CB, you might have to move fast - looks like they've gone on "blowout" at Sweetwater:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LPFDWCCH/

 

Mind you, I'd have thought you'd be all set for one of these instead, given your musical tastes - yours for only $5000!

 

LENNON210-front-l.jpg

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Well' date=' if you're serious about that CB, you might have to move fast - looks like they've gone on "blowout" at Sweetwater:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LPFDWCCH/

 

Mind you, I'd have thought you'd be all set for one of these instead, given your musical tastes - yours for only $5000!

 

[img']http://www.sweetwater.com/images/guitars/CSLPLennon/LENNON210/LENNON210-front-l.jpg[/img]

 

 

Yeah, that Lennon version is fun! But I'm not about to spend 5K on ANY guitar! And you know..I've never

really enjoyed that protrusion, those had (even the originals) into the cutaway. I much prefer a nice smooth

cutaway, with out running into a kind of "road-block," that those always felt like. So, if I was going to do

something along the same lines, I'd just get the normal "junior," and mod it to look like John's...if so desired.

That way, I'd have what "I" wanted, smooth cutaway and all, for a small fraction, of the price. Besides, I'll

never be "John Lennon," no matter how much I spend, or how many signature guitars Gibson offered. LOL!

But, to each his own!

 

CB

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By the way, CB, I've been meaning to ask you - how is the finish holding up on your TV Yellow DC faded? From memory its just a stain with a thin nitrocellulose lacquer on top. Is it OK, or do you think it will wear through in time? I've always been a bit wary of the Highway 1 Teles for the same reason (well that plus the enormous frets the recent ones seem to have...)

 

[also, sorry everyone for hijacking this Elitist thread and turning it into a DC faded thread, but I figure we've have a billion threads on "where have all the Elitists gone?" - so I guess I'm not depriving anyone of valuable info.]

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When I bought my first elitist (sight unseen), an LP Studio for $699 w/hsc, I took one look at it and said to myself "there's no way Gibson is gonna allow these to continue much longer as the quality is way too good for the price they're selling them for and they'll kill Gibson sales in this price range".

 

Well, I was right. In the meantime I bought 8 more elitists. However, I will forever desire the one's I didn't get- especially the Riviera, the Broadway, & the Country Gentleman.

 

Every elitist they made, IMO, was worth more than what they were selling them for here in the U.S.

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CB

 

The guy I met was looking for a job, had left Epiphone, then sold cars, another line of work that is suffering. He came in to the restaurant to get a server job.

 

He was of the opinion that Gibson's QC is the problem. Why they can't seem to build a guitar of the quality of the Elitist consistently in the US is frustrating given the price difference. You can find good Gibson guitars. I went through several racks at the Opry Mills Gibson Showplace and there were several I would have liked to take home. They were just on another planet price wise. They had Elitists for sale in the shop, and that was the first time I got to play one side by side with a Gibson LP Standard. I thought the Elitist had better tone, build quality and finish, and that led me to buy one on EBay.

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By the way' date=' CB, I've been meaning to ask you - how is the finish holding up on your TV Yellow DC faded? From memory its just a stain with a thin nitrocellulose lacquer on top. Is it OK, or do you think it will wear through in time? I've always been a bit wary of the Highway 1 Teles for the same reason (well that plus the [b']enormous[/b] frets the recent ones seem to have...)

 

[also, sorry everyone for hijacking this Elitist thread and turning it into a DC faded thread, but I figure we've have a billion threads on "where have all the Elitists gone?" - so I guess I'm not depriving anyone of valuable info.]

 

LOL...Yeah, the finish is pretty thin. The body still looks "new," but the back of the neck is down to the wood,

and was...in pretty short order. But, that's easily taken care of with a can of paint, if/when it ever bothers me.

In fact, I may (eventually) repaint the whole guitar, more like a vintage one. But, for now...it's fine. I have a

Highway 1 Strat, and Highway 1 "Texas" Telecaster, too. I'm not very hard on guitars, at all...so their finishes

are both still newish looking, and they're 6 and 5 years old (respectively) , now. So....if you treat them well,

they'll hold up fine...but, if you're a "basher," they'll "relic" faster. ;>) I think (on the Fender's, anyway) that

the "Thin" nitro paint job is thin, only in comparison to the thicker "Poly" finishes, nowadays. My '64 Strat has

a "thin" finish, as was common, in those days. So, the Highway 1's are more like the vintage ones, in that

regard.

 

CB

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I have a Highway 1 Strat' date=' and Highway 1 "Texas" Telecaster, too. I'm not very hard on guitars, at all...so their finishes

are both still newish looking, and they're 6 and 5 years old (respectively) , now. So....if you treat them well,

they'll hold up fine...but, if you're a "basher," they'll "relic" faster. ;>) I think (on the Fender's, anyway) that

the "Thin" nitro paint job is thin, only in comparison to the thicker "Poly" finishes, nowadays.

[/quote']

 

Not sure how factual this is... but I understand Fender is using polyurethane(like anyone else) and finishes off with a layer of nitro to give it that 'classy' feel.

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CB

 

The guy I met was looking for a job' date=' had left Epiphone, then sold cars, another line of work that is suffering. He came in to the restaurant to get a server job.

 

He was of the opinion that Gibson's QC is the problem. Why they can't seem to build a guitar of the quality of the Elitist consistently in the US is frustrating given the price difference. You can find good Gibson guitars. I went through several racks at the Opry Mills Gibson Showplace and there were several I would have liked to take home. They were just on another planet price wise. They had Elitists for sale in the shop, and that was the first time I got to play one side by side with a Gibson LP Standard. I thought the Elitist had better tone, build quality and finish, and that led me to buy one on EBay.[/quote']

 

Well, QC has always been a problem, there...apparently? That's been a standard complaint for as long as I can

remember. Even the "holy grail" vintage ones suffered from it, as well. But, a lot of people have forgotten, OR...had no other basis for comparison. It's a bit like how American car makers pushed off the kind of crap they made, for years, until the Japanese started selling their cars over here, and we had something else to compare "Detriot's" product, to. Sure, there were Mercedes and BMW's, for comparison, but those were for "Rich people!" LOL! Japan, and Japanese people have a different mind set, about quality, in that anything that leaves their factories...or even just their portion of the assembly process, has to be as close to flawless/"perfect," as possible...OR it reflects on them, personally...and they're taken to task about it. More a "team" spirit, and a pride/shame thing. There, the "Team" is the important thing, so production reflects that. Here, we're more "individual" oriented, and we're taught that way, too. Or Were, anyway...maybe school is different, now???

 

Maybe(?) we need a bit more of that type "actions/consequences" thing here? American's can (and often DO)

design, build/produce goods as good as, if not better than, any place in the world. But, we seem to have a tendency to be a bit lax, at times, too. And, in the Global Economy, we're faced with now, being "lax" in anything, can/will have

negative consequences. The Genie is out of the bottle, as to Global, so we Have to compete, that way. "Made in

Japan" used to be a joke (here)....but now, it's more the "benchmark," for quality...as well as "Made In Germany!" I

want to get back to the point where "Made In America," means the same thing...real, Consistent, Quality! We

still have that, in certain areas, but overall we're suffering. Lot's of other, contributing reasons, too...I know that.

But keeping up quality, service, "consistently" is critical!

 

CB

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Not sure how factual this is... but I understand Fender is using polyurethane(like anyone else) and finishes off with a layer of nitro to give it that 'classy' feel.

 

Could be...but they advertised it as "nitro" early on. Maybe they've changed that? I really don't know,

either. But, if it's "Poly" is sure seems to wear off quicker, than most "Poly" finishes do. Mine have held

up well, but..as stated, I'm pretty "precious" with my guitars. So..???

 

CB

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