Disappointed (EJ-160)....

[JohnMcClane5000]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum but I have had 4 Epi's in the past, my most precious one is a Casino (made in Korea).

 

I've always been a fan of the Ej-160 but disliked for some reason the Lennon signature... But that changed and so I started looking for one and I have to say these new chinese made epi's are far, far away from the quality that the earlier korean guitars had...

 

I really hope Epiphone will rethink their strategy because I would compare the chinese guitars to be as poorly produced as the Squier guitars and that's not the Image (I think) Epiphone wants to represent!

 

You made good guitars (once) but you screwed things up.

 

 

I will probably never buy a new Epiphone guitar if it's not Korean!

 

You've lost one dear customer.

 

I think I will have to keep on looking for a used Korean made EJ-160

 

 

very disappointed...

 

 

JohnMcClane5000 from Switzerland

[PeteWilson]

I am sorry you have had a disappointment with your guitar. I own an EF-500R made in China, and would not part with it. It is easily one of the best sounding and playing guitars I own, and I own several Chinese made and American made accoustics. As with any endeavor, I am certain that there are guitars which escape QC. I have not ever played an EJ-160.

I still believe that the Masterbilt line, all produced in China are easily the best bang for the buck in the acoustic guitar market, and I would not hesitate to buy another.

There, that's my opinion, and it is probably worth the price paid for it.

Pete

[trossit]

I am sorry you have had a disappointment with your guitar. I own an EF-500R made in China' date=' and would not part with it. It is easily one of the best sounding and playing guitars I own, and I own several Chinese made and American made accoustics. As with any endeavor, I am certain that there are guitars which escape QC. I have not ever played an EJ-160.

I still believe that the Masterbilt line, all produced in China are easily the best bang for the buck in the acoustic guitar market, and I would not hesitate to buy another.

There, that's my opinion, and it is probably worth the price paid for it.

Pete[/quote']

 

I agree the Masterbuilt line is amazing, but I do feel other Epi models below it are slipping in Quality. You really have to be careful and play and exam each guitar before purchasing. The Cosmetic Finish standards seem to be on a different planet for the Masterbuilts vs. the other Epi models built oversees. I hope the quality improves because I do like Epiphone guitars. It makes it difficult to buy these guitars on-line (site unseen) when quality standards vary so much.

[ajsc]

Funny thing to me is , that the only Gibson I have played lately & disliked was a J-160E. I "really" didn't like this guitar at all. I think they are more for plugging in, than for acoustic playing.

I haven't played a J160 epi, but have played some really nice solid top epi's, that fall into the cheap range.

The one that comes to mind right away is the AJ200s, for $150. this guitar is a steal.

[Spyders]

I'm afraid I have to agree with the original poster. I have not been particularly impressed with the Chinese made Epiphones that I have tried. About a month ago I went to GC with the intent of purchasing an Epiphone advanced jumbo. I had a Masterbilt AJ in mind and when I got to the store I spent a couple of hours comparing various models. The long and the short of it is that the guitar that sounded the best to me was an AJ 200s. The fit and finish of the AJ 200s was also essentially immaculate. The fit and finish of the masterbilts was very well done also but honestly they didn't have the volume or the consistency in the tonal range of the AJ 200s. I was stunned to say the least! I then compared the AJ 200s to a Gibson J 45 and I was stunned again by how well the AJ 200s stood up against the Gibson. Frankly, I also preferred the fit and finish of the AJ 200s to the Masterbilts (due to the wonderful glossy finish as opposed to the dull satin finish on the Masterbilts.) Having said that, I do have to say that while the fit and finish of the Masterbilts was excellent, the volume and tone just weren't there. I walked out with the AJ 200s.

 

When I got home, I did some studying and found that the particular AJ 200s I walked out with was built in Indonesia by Samick. The Masterbilts I played that day were made in China.

 

Yesterday, I was back in a different GC and play two more Epiphones. One was an AJ 200vs, another was a DR 200s, both with made in China stickers on them. These both looked ok but the tone left an enormous amount to be desired. I don't think I would go so far as to say that it sucked but it was approaching that. Whether it was just old strings or what I don't know but I do know that I continue to be unimpressed with the Chinese built Epiphones that I have encountered.

 

I think the moral to this story is that you shouldn't EVER buy a guitar unless you sit down and play the exact actual guitar that you are thinking about buying. My other recommendation is to seek out Epiphones made in Indonesia by Samick.

 

Spyders

[taxman]

Yeah, I had a made in China EJ-160 and a Samick Indonesia EJ-160. The difference between the two was tremendous. The China made guitar lost that competition.

[trossit]

I live very near to a GC and I do visit frequently to test drive there Gibson and Epi inventory. I have to agree that the AJ200S made in Indo sound very Gibson like, so much so that I purchased one. When I left the store I noticed there was a 3/4" long depression-dimple on the side of the guitar about 1 inch from where it joins the neck, this flaw had been finished over. I was so disappointed I returned the guitar. The action was low and the guitar did have "Gibson tone" needless to say I was bummed. Another thing I noticed (which is minor but should not be allowed) was polishing compound over-splash in the soundhole. I understand this is a $200 guitar at GC but with a "suggested" retail price of $332 I would have expected better. Can Epiphone at least build the Masterbuilt line at Gibson's Canada plant, and offer a full polished finish? I would pay the extra $50 or whatever it is for a full polish on a Masterbuilt. Don't get me wrong, I love Gibson and Epiphone guitars but to be quite honest I have been looking at the comparable Washburn guitars that seem to be assembled with higher quality standards.

[JohnMcClane5000]

The problem is, I live in Switzerland and over here there aren't huge guitar centers like in America where you can test 500 identical guitars, it's either you are lucky and they have the guitar you're looking for, or you need to order it, which I don't want, because I only buy a guitar after I've tested it..

And Epiphone isn't really the cheapest of brands you could want over here (especially for archtop-guitars)

so that's why I'm criticising: They didnt reduce the price, but reduced the quality which really really disappoints me since I allways thought epiphone was a quality brand up until I found out about the chinese thing. I got lucky I grabbed one of the last Epi Casinos MIK in 2006, because I wouldn't have wanted to pay 1200 Swiss Francs for chinese made cr@p. Excuse me but if I had the choice between chinese guitars and Korean ones, I'd always be chosing the Korean ones for sure!

And you're right: I would also have liked some glossy finish on the masterbuilt models

 

 

 

 

 

John McClane5000

[glide340]

I own 4 China made Epiphones that are excellent guitars. I hand picked them all and played them and inspected before the purchase. Tone is amazing on all of them, fit and finish is excellent also. 2 are Masterbilts, a Dot, and an EJ-200. I too would like gloss finishes on the Masterbilts, I did one myself and it is beautiful. Great guitars IMO.

[Bender 4 Life]

I LOVE my 2 Epi electrics, and have been impressed with the Masterbuilt acoustics i've tried.

On the other hand, I tried a "Dove" not long ago (I also live not far from a GC store)

the action was rediculously high, and upon close inspection I found the neck to be bowed (easily repairable)

and WARPED (not so easy to repair).

 

Maybe they'll get better consistency in QC in '09........i'm still looking.

[JohnMcClane5000]

I just want to say I wouldn't want my guitar to be manufactured in a country that makes cheap, fake Gibson copies.

[ajsc]

I have to say my AJ500M, is a great guitar with lots of volume, & tone. I would recommend it to anyone. I also like the satin finnish.

I played a DR500M the other day with a gloss top, that was very nice too.

As I've stated many times I think the AJ200S is a steal for the price, but not at all in the same league, with any of the masterbilts.

Seems to me that some on this forum are here to bash epiphone.

I wish the Masterbilt's were made in USA , but if they were they cost at least a grand.

I've actually heard more good things about the "Chinese" made Masterbilt's than I have about the Canadian Gibson's. In fact I have heard nothing good about the Canadian Gibsons.

If you don't like them don't buy em??

[TheP-40s]

Question, where on the guitar is it marked China or Indonesia?

 

One thing I think everyone should consider is (and I believe this is still true today) Way back when Gibson took over Epiphone, when a new store wanted Gibsons they were handed Epiphones to sell for a period of time and depending on how well the sales went would decide if that store received Gibson guitars. I tend to think today depending on where you buy an Epiphone makes all the difference. If a store just started selling Epiphones I think they are handed sub par guitars to sell for a period of time, and once they are deemed a dependable dealer then they will receive thegood to decent quality instruments. The reason why I say this is a local store that started up recently in my area started selling Epiphone guitars (mainly Masterbilts) and though they sounded fine, on close inspection i noticed little flaws here and there which turned me off from buying an Epi. So I go to my local Guitar Center and thier are the Epiphone Masterbilts i picked them up and they looked nice no flaws , the action was great and the sound was spectacular. I purchased it right there and then. GC is a reputable store and dealer so they get first pick of the lot so to speak and newly formed Music stores have to prove they can sell and possibly do not get the first pick or cream of the crop guitars. Now having said that this is in America and who knows if this applies to other Countries. Now I also want to say I recently purchased a guitar for my daughter for x-mas she really wanted a Dove by Epiphone just from pictures in Catalogs. So i head down to Guitar Center and they didn't have any Doves to try but had a Hummingbird. While it looked fine I didn't care for the sound nor the feel of the neck, I ended up with a Yamaha FG730, it played the best out of all the Acoustics I strummed and picked that day. My daughter is extremely happy with the choice I made for her and I figured that because she loves to play all the guitars I own. As has been said buy the guitar the sounds and plays the best in your hands even if it is ugly as ----, Looks are secondary. Hope this helps.

[Spyders]

Hi Paul,

I don't agree with you that people are here to bash Epiphone. It seems to me that all of the posts here are from people who like Epiphone enough to have bought their products. I love my AJ 200s and would recommend the Indonesian made version to anyone.

 

No company makes perfect products. I'm sure Epiphone is constantly monitoring this forum and could eliminate the criticisms any time they wanted. I doubt that they would do that because I'll bet you they welcome well reasoned criticism. I'm sure it is a very valuable tool for them.

 

Paul:"As I've stated many times I think the AJ200S is a steal for the price, but not at all in the same league, with any of the masterbilts."

 

I think in terms of how the masterbilts are appointed, I would agree with you. As far as the fit and finish, the two masterbilts I played were immaculate. The AJ 200s I purchased, however, was also immaculate. So the masterbults were not superior to it in any way in terms of fit and finish. As far as the sound of the guitar, the masterbilts I played were frankly inferior to the AJ 200s that I ended up purchasing. I kid you not. The masterbilts could only muster about 70% of the volume of the AJ 200s and to my ear the AJ 200s had a wider, richer tone. The masterbilts were definitely fancier but the AJ 200s just sounded better. In no way were the masterbilts in a different league in terms of the way they sounded. I like a guitar to look good but to me the sound is much, much more important and it was on this basis that I chose to buy the AJ 200s.

 

Here are a couple of things that I don't know the answer to but I'd be willing to make a bet on.

 

1.) I'll bet the top on the masterbilts is thinner than the top on the Indonesian Samick built AJ 200s.

 

When I viewed the Epiphone made video that you linked to about how the masterbilts are made, I noticed something very interesting. The guy said something to the effect that they decided to put a satin finish on the guitar in order to help the tone.

 

2.) I'll bet you that Epiphone didn't originally plan to put a satin finish on the masterbilts but made that the standard finish because the tone didn't turn out to be all that they had hoped for.

 

I've played about ten different Epiphones in the past couple of months and every one of them had inferior tone to the AJ 200s I purchased. All of them were chinese built. Three of them had decent tone. Those were the two masterbilts and one dove.

 

Paul: "I've actually heard more good things about the "Chinese" made Masterbilt's than I have about the Canadian Gibson's."

 

I've read a lot of good things about the masterbilts too but I've read almost exclusively bad things here about the other chinese made models. Granted I haven't been on this forum that long but that's what I've noticed.

 

Paul: "If you don't like them don't buy em??"

 

That is most certainly excellent advice. I followed it.

 

Spyders

 

P.S., I just noticed a post by Red 333 posted on Oct. 1 in the thread called "changes in the masterbilt guitars". He describes two masterbilts, one an AJ and the other a DR. I'm pretty sure these are the exact two masterbilts that I played when I did my comparison with the AJ 200s that I bought.

[Spyders]

Question' date=' where on the guitar is it marked China or Indonesia?[/quote']

 

Hi P-40,

 

On some models there is a sticker on the back of the headstock that says "made in China"

 

As for my AJ 200s, there was no sticker. After I bought it, I found a thread on this forum where someone had posted a link to an engine which will decipher the information contained in the serial number such as which factory the guitar was made in and when it was made. I'm sorry I don't have the link to that search engine but perhaps another poster will provide it.

 

Spyders

[Bender 4 Life]

I just want to say I wouldn't want my guitar to be manufactured in a country that makes cheap' date=' fake Gibson copies. [/quote']

 

Understandable......although, i'm not put off about the country its built in because my "go to" acoustic, is a Washburn D10SB(entry level dreadnaught, voted best under $500 acoustic several yrs in a row), that was made in China.

It's about 8 yrs. old now, the action is low, without buzz, the volume and tone are really great.

The only change i've had to make is swapping the plastic bridge pins for an ebony set

(I broke 1 of the origionals changing strings), and I play it so much that its really starting to look like

an old "drag around box".

 

I really think that its as much an issue of QC, as in : "the boss is standing behind me with a stick today"

as an issue of origin.

[ajsc]

2.) I'll bet you that Epiphone didn't originally plan to put a satin finish on the masterbilts but made that the standard finish because the tone didn't turn out to be all that they had hoped for.

 

 

I'll bet they did this to keep the price down!!

I don't have a problem with satin finish. I think the 15 series Martins are some of their best guitars.

Larivee's 02--03 series are satin, also great guitars!!

They do this in order to allow some who can't afford expensive, high end guitars to, acquire a quality guitar at a good price.

Jean Larrivee stated this. Saying most guitar players are struggling to pay their bills, much less to buy a 2000 dollar guitar.

Aj500M = Hand made, all solid wood, bone nut, & saddle. $450. Are you kidding me??

They stopped including the case a couple of years ago to increase profit. "Still a great deal!!

Larrivee 03 series have jumped from $500 to almost a grand in the past few years.

Martin 15 series have gone from around $700 to almost a grand.

I suspect we will see the same with the Masterbilt's, OR, they will stop producing them all together.

I have an Gibson AJ, Gibson J-45 Historic, & an SJ-200. I am not ashamed to say I love my AJ500M.

You are the 1st to say anything negative about them.

I think you are looking for problems that don't exist.

I don't know how thick the top is & don't care!

All I care about is when I play a guitar it speaks to me.

You have gone on, & on about how your AJ200S was better than the Masterbilt's, as well as the Gibson's you Played.

I'm glad you love your new guitar, but give me a break!! It's a very nice 200 dollar guitar,but come on!!

This my guitar is better than everything else in the store is crap.

When I bought my J-45, I fell in love with it, but rest assured it was not the best guitar in the store.

It was the best guitar that I could afford!!

There was for instance a Martin d-100 that they where asking $87,000. My guitars are not the "best" guitars on earth but they suit me fine.

[ajsc]

http://www.guitardaterproject.org/epiphone.aspx

 

Here's the link!!

Sorry if I sound offended, I guess I am!!

I have played some epi's lately, that I think are junk also!! I try to be careful about bashing one model or the other, because there is probably someone on the forum who has that model, who loves it.

Having said all that, I'm glad you've joined the forum.

It has never been so lively, & I look forward to finding some common ground.

We both love guitar's, & playing........Right?? And your from Texas!!

[Spyders]

Hi Paul,

 

I'm glad you posted that second post. Please be assured that I haven't attacked you or your guitar or masterbilts or anyone. I think masterbilts are fine guitars. There certainly are a lot of people who think so.

 

But I'm not the first person to question how great they are. Just check out the post from redd 333 posted on Oct 1 in the "changes in the masterbilt guitars" thread. I'm certain that the two masterbilts he's complaining about are the exact two that I compared against the AJ 200s. He was far less impressed with these two guitars then I was and he's a masterbilt owner!

 

You also made a blanket statment that the masterbilts are in a league above all of the less expensive models. While I've found that to be universally true with all of the Chinese made guitars I've played, it most certainly does not seem to be true with respect to the Indonesian Samick made models. I base that on my experience and posts I read from other owners of the Indonesian Samick guitars. I've also been careful not to criticize masterbilts in general but the two specific guitars that I played. So I can not figure out why you would be upset about that. You've told me that your guitar is great and I totally believe you.

You've told me that compared to the less expensive models your guitar sounds much better and based on the low end Chinese built models I've played, I totally believe you. But have you done a direct comparison between your guitar and an Indonesian Samick built model??? I think you night be quite surprised.

 

I'd go so far as to say that the real gems in the Epiphone line are not the masterbilts, but the Indonesian Samick models. Great sounding guitars with excellent fit and finish as good as the masterbilts I've seen for less than half of the cost of the masterbilts!

 

You also seem to think I have something against the satin finish. I can assure you, I do not. The worst thing I've said about it is that it doesn't look as good as the gloss finish. That is not an attack on the satin finish. In fact I have three electric guitars that I custom ordered and ordered all three with a satin finish neck because I like the way it plays better than a gloss finish neck. I still think the gloss finish looks better but to me looks are about the third item on my list of priorities for a guitar.

 

The thing I'm really fascinated with, however, is when you said that you think that the satin finish was selected for the masterbilts because of cost. That may well be a factor but the the Epiphone spokesman in the video says satin was selected in order to help with the tone. Do you think this is just BS?

 

Anyway, please don't be offended. That is not my intention at all. You and I have had experiences that have led us to differing conclusions. That doesn't make either one of us wrong. I suspect it has more to do with the dramatically varying levels of quality that is evidently being put into the marketplace.

 

Take care,

Spyders

[bill67]

I have an ej200 way better than my ej300sce,dr500r way better than the others,My best nonelectric guitar Washburn wd114 sk $129 with hard case MF stupid deal of the day,best sounding and easiest playing,they have a closeout on them for $400 now.

[Bender 4 Life]

My best nonelectric guitar Washburn wd114 sk $129 with hard case MF stupid deal of the day' date='best sounding and easiest playing,they have a closeout on them for $400 now.[/quote']

 

Honestly curious.........where was it made?

[ajsc]

The thing I'm really fascinated with, however, is when you said that you think that the satin finish was selected for the masterbilts because of cost. That may well be a factor but the the Epiphone spokesman in the video says satin was selected in order to help with the tone. Do you think this is just BS?

 

I think they do it for the same reason Larivee, & Martin do it. I think for tone, as well as price!!

 

You also made a blanket statment that the masterbilts are in a league above all of the less expensive models.

 

I did??

[wooglins]

I tried quite a few different guitars at GC and at World and none under 2k (that I tried) came close to the AJ-500M. I think one thing that people forget is that the Masterbilt is all solid. That creates a completely different sound than guitars made from laminate. I noticed that many of the Indo-China guitars have a very loud sound, but tone is not nearly as good as many of the more expensive solid wood guitars. I did find that many of the Indo guitars have a very good build quality. But it is laminate, and laminate probably wont last a lifetime, and I dont see how it could be repaired.

 

It is really just a blessing that Epiphone offers a solid guitar in the 500 dollar range with a great design.

[bill67]

Washburn w114 sk made in Indonesia,When I bought my DR500r,I tried about 20 guitars,up to about $2500,I like the DR500 best,my brother was with me and he thought the same,,,,,,,,,,,washburn and a Squier 51 are really something for the money,the 51 was made in Indonesia too,It was $100

[TheP-40s]

Since you fellas are mentioning other guitars I thought I would throw my 2 cents in as well. Ibanez Artwood guitars are pretty sweet guitars for the money as well, I would put it right up thier with my DR500M, Solid all the way around, no lamination. I own the AW 120RDV. What I would like to find is a solid top back & sides guitar with Ebony fretboard at a resonable price. I tried a couple low priced taylors and Martins(still rather pricey 600$ and up), they sounded pretty good but I was turned off from the materials used. laminates/stratobons/micarta Though Micarta could possibly be better and tougher then Rosewood or Ebony. I just think it looks fake.