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Getting, Then Preventing, Feedback with Casino


gvdv

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Hi,

I'm going to be doing a small gig (my first real one with a band, despite my middle age) in just over a month. We're doing two sets of Beatles' songs, and I have struggled with what to include and what to leave out (as a friend said, "So, you can't fault the material").

 

I'll be playing in quite a small space, and I want to use my Casino almost exclusively.

 

Generally, I'll want to prevent feedback, but for 'I Feel Fine', I obviously want that first A note to be fed-back. Unfortunately, I'm using a Roland Cube 30 transistor amp.

 

So, I have two questions:

1. How do I get that controlled feedback for the beginning of 'I Feel Fine'?

At the moment I only seem to be able to get amplifier buzz and hum from the pick-ups when I move the Casino closer to the amp's speaker

 

2. How do I prevent feedback during the gig as a whole?

I've read previously of people blocking the F-holes on the Casino to try to prevent feedback, but I'm not sure how I'd do this, or if this is an effective strategy. I've seen mention of using foam rubber to block the f-holes, and also of covering them by taping cardboard to them. (By the way, how would one use tape without damaging the lacquer on the body?).

 

I've also read of other strategies such as varying one's position and distance from the amps and using the Casino's volume controls to address this problem, as well as both left and right hand muting.

 

Smaller environments are often mentioned as promoting feedback, whereas larger rooms seem to allow for more ways to try to control feedback.

 

Some people claim that it is impossible to control feedback of any sort, citing that the lack of a central block (such as the Gibson ES-330's have) as the reason for this, while others say that this kind of control is possible.

 

Any help would be gratefully received,

 

Thanks,

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First off, the feedback on the recording was done with John's Gibson J-160E Flat-top acoustic/electric...which is easier to

get to do that, than a thin line (semi or fully hollow)...and also the tone is deeper, with the J-160E. BUT, they did do it

live, by putting the head of his Casino agains the Super Beatle (or AC-100) speaker cabinet, and once obtained, he pulled it away and turned away from the amp, for the actual beginning of the riff. No tape, nothing inside the guitar, etc. In Your situation, that might not work, as you may get harmonic squealing from the pickups, before you got the string vibration feedback, that you're looking for. (Tight spaces, much smaller amp speaker cabinet, etc.) Not saying it's impossible, but you'll have to experiment, as even John did, to find out what will work, and what won't. If you have a booster pedal, you could use that ("on") when you hit the A string, let it feedback, then click it off, to start the riff. Just have to experiment, a bit, I think. I used to own a Vox Super Beatle, and we did that song a lot. I found that using the MRB button, along with putting the headstock against the speaker screen, would get a really close approximation...then I just let off the MRB switch, for the actual riff...

 

Also, if you listen to the recording, it sounds like Paul's bass hits the A note, and then causes John's guitar to

feedback. So, you might work with your bass player, to see what you can come up with, together, to make

that happen. ??? Just a thought.

 

Just some ideas...hope that will help.

 

CB

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Watch a couple of the Beatles clips on YouTube; they don't bother trying to get feedback at the beginning of the song in concert. It was just something that occurred in the studio while they recorded the song and decided to leave it in. Because you're worried about feedback, you'd want to avoid really high volume and high gain settings on your amp (play clean) and, as you mentioned, the distance from and orientation of your guitar to the amp will be important. Also, www.dougsplugs.com sells plugs or you could make your own. Have a backup solidbody guitar just in case you've taken precautions and there's still a problem during the first song.

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Hi CB and bluelake07,

Thanks for the replies.

 

I was aware of all the details you both gave about 'I Feel Fine', but thanks, anyway. And bluelake07, I do want to do that introductory note, regardless of what JPG&R did in concert.

 

CB, I hadn't thought of working with the bass player on that; that's a great idea, as is trying out a pedal. I'll give those both a go, because all of the other stuff hadn't worked - that's why I posted.

 

bluelake07, thanks for the link; I'll check that now.

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Gvdv' date='

 

+1 on C.B.s comment about Paul's bass.

If you can't get the feedback you want, how about starting the song with the harmonic A.

You could hit the harmonic with the volume off, then fade it in.

Might not be the same, but, it might sound good?[/quote']

Hi Whitmore Willy,

Thanks for this very creative idea. I may end up doing that.

 

gvdv

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Hi' date='

1. How do I get that controlled feedback for the beginning of 'I Feel Fine'?

[/quote']

The feedback note has two parts -- drone and then a buzz. This is the way I do it without any amp feedback at all.

 

1. lightly rest your finger over the A string just before the second fret, almost as if you are doing a harmonic

2. pick the string hard (lift your finger) and no note is sounded but it starts to drone

3. now (and this takes a bit of practice) take the edge of your pick (I rest the bottom half of the pick on the D string) and ever so slightly touch the vibrating A string with the pick edge -- not hard enough to stop the string from vibrating, but just touch it slightly enough so you begin to get a buzzsaw rasp (believe it or not, it sounds very much like the final half of the feedback note on the record).

4. start the song

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I think Charlie has the right answer here. Years ago, I was messing around with my Guild acoustic with a clip-in Dean Markley pickup in the sound hole. I touched the headstock to the amp, and with a light tap, the magnet of the pickup started one of the strings vibrating out of control in an ever-widening arc, hitting the frets.

And it sounded exactly like the beginning of I Feel Fine.

That pickup in the J-160 was a P-90, wasn't it?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Further to my earlier post, and also happily from my point of view, I am able to get the Casino to feed back when I want to, and to prevent this when I want to.

 

Doing this allows me to play the first 'feedback' note of of 'I Feel Fine', and then to move to a cleaner sound, as was my original intention.

 

I accomplished this by experimenting a little more with Beatlenut's and Whitmore Willy's suggestions, primarily using Beatlenut's methodology.

 

I basically pluck the A string fretted at the 2nd. fret, while touching it lightly with a finger, and then quickly letting it go (I've found that touching it a little heavier than for playing a harmonic works very well). I then quickly turn the guitar so it is almost parallel to the floor, (while standing parallel to the amp about a foot in front of the speaker). I've found that if I turn the edge of the guitar nearest the amp slightly upwards (at about a 35-40 degree angle) that helps the feedback nicely. This feedback builds/sustains long enough for me to either switch my pick up selector and/or channel foot switch to a cleaner setting to start playing the main riff (barred D chord at 11th. fret).

 

In the 'other' epi forum, CB made the distinction between string vibration, harmonic and microphonic feedback, and I'm very glad to say that I don't get any microphonic/high pitched squeal feedback (if I did, I would tried the suggestions regarding putting a piece of styro-foam, or balsa wood or a balloon inside the guitar).

 

Thanks to all for posting on this, and I think I will also try the suggestion of getting the bass player to hit his A at the same time to try to 'encourage' my Casino to start feeding back.

 

One note: a poster on the other forum using exactly the same Casino/Roland Cube 30 guitar/amp combination I have has been getting a lot of uncontrollable feedback (I don't know if it's microphonic, string or harmonic) in exactly the same sized room I play in. I don't know why this difference exists. Perhaps his Casino is different from my Made In China 2008 model (could be a Korean or Japanese made model).

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