franciscog Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Ok, so Im getting an 08 epiphone les paul standard plain top. I am wondering, does it have alder in it or is it solid mahogany? I'm just wondering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDx Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Ok' date=' so Im getting an 08 epiphone les paul standard plain top. I am wondering, does it have alder in it or is it solid mahogany? I'm just wondering...[/quote'] Hmmmm..... my take is yes, it may have an alder (or something else, for all we know) top (under maple veneer), and no, it's not solid mahogany - body not one slab of wood, likely 3 at the minimum, and it's not mahogany as we know it...... it's:-k "mahogany" :) .... search various Epiphone forums, there's been much discussion as to woods used . This isn't to say they're bad woods, just not top of the line quality.....which one can't expect at this price point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i hate classical music Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 you picked the right type of guitar mate, really good guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 yeah it could be solid mahogany. But it's like acoustic guitars.. they'll say spruce top, or solid spruce top. if they say spruce, it usually means laminated spruce. with solid bodys, solid just means glued together pieces... otherwise they say one piece or two piece. and the mahogany. well. there are several varietys so they hedge a bit there, too. you can get rosewood, but brazilian rosewood is much rarer, though that's what anyone would probably want. everyone hedges a bit, no matter the manufacturer. there's expensive wood and not so exensive wood. the lp standard is good enough wood.. and for my money that means good enough for anything. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostindesert Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 If you use ''good enough'' wood why not use one or two piece backs. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyushPresley Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 There will always be a debate on is it pure Mahogany or not. Now we really can't tell can we? but there are various kinds of mahogany, some are very expensive considered where they are from and some are well a bit cheaper. I have seen this in a furniture store and I guess it implies to guitars as well. When I went to get myself a cabinet, I asked the seller why one of the cabinet was marked more than the other though being very similar, and he said they were different wood. but it was written mahogany on both of them, so he told me there are many many kinds of mahogany. Though they all come upon the category of Mahogany, there are various subcategories as well. He said Mahogany was rated within 4A's. (A being the min to AAAA being the max) And I certainly think this is the case with guitars as well. IMO When Gibson uses Mahogany they use AAAA Mahogany and Epiphone uses AAA mahogany but I think they use Mahogany..Mahogany are usually very heavy like our Epiphone's and Gibsons. only a Mahogany Top would not be able to make it as heavy. So IMHO I think it is mahogany but of a lesser quality.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Ok' date=' so Im getting an 08 epiphone les paul standard plain top..., does it have alder in it or is it solid mahogany?[/quote']Mahogany of some variety or another -- manufacturers do not want false advertising lawsuits -- and it is "solid" as in one agregate piece but it may have been multiple pieces bonded together. Weight is the key. --- the Ultra is the only Epi LP that is chambered (as in weight relieved). Someone above pointed out the various grades of mahogany. Cheaper grades weigh less as a rule b/c they are either lighter varieties or are younger (as in not "old growth") and less dense. Old LPs and Elitist LPs weigh more because they are made of the premium mahoganys. My 2003 Elite is 4.6 kilos. I played two 2008 EE LPs recently and neither of them weighed 3.5k. They were both fine -- not Elitist quality but good solid players -- but they did lack some of the great tonal depths and sustain of the heavier (better mahogany) LPs. That is usually your trade-off. Compare and then pick what works best for you. [edit comments -- My "weight is key" comment refers only to identifying the premium mahogany from lesser grade mahogany (the better woods on average weigh more). But, while it may signal that a guitar is made from better wood, it is not necessarily a "key" to guitar quality or performance. I have played some real heavyweights that were very mediocre. As Dave and others said, numerous factors have to combine properly to result in a 1st quality player.] Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscog Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 cool, thanks to everyone for answering my question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Mahogany of some variety or another -- manufacturers do not want false advertising lawsuits -- and it is "solid" as in one agregate piece but it may have been multiple pieces bonded together. Weight is the key. --- the Ultra is the only Epi LP that is chambered (as in weight relieved). Someone above pointed out the various grades of mahogany. Cheaper grades weigh less as a rule b/c they are either lighter varieties or are younger (as in not "old growth") and less dense. Old LPs and Elitist LPs weigh more because they are made of the premium mahoganys. My 2003 Elite is 5.6 kilos. I played two 2008 EE LPs recently and neither of them weighed 4.5k. They were both fine -- not Elitist quality but good solid players -- but they did lack some of the great tonal depths and sustain of the heavier (better mahogany) LPs. That is your trade-off. Compare and then pick what works best for you. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby...' date=' I'm going to play on:-" [/quote']Weight is NOT the key. A good LP is NOT the heaviest, nor is the best mahogany the heaviest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 If you use ''good enough'' wood why not use one or two piece backs. Peter lots of painted guitars are sticks glued together. You'll find squiers and such are done that way. Some epis, most likely, as well. Two piece center seamed is considered excellent for strat/tele builds.. even if you can see the seam. The glues used today are so thin and strong that it has no effect on the tone. It's mostly cosmetic.. and then there's an argument, I suppose, about one piece of wood having particular tonal properties while two piece from different trees or cuts of the same tree may vary. to me, it's mostly a cosmetic thing. I think the reason some epi lps are so darkly stained on the back is just for that.. to hide the seams. I've got a strat here, an import. And for the life of me I can't understand why they inlaid this beautiful shell flower on it's top.. when it was made of three pieces of wood, with mismatched grain.. and a transparent finish. It reminds me of this time I saw a guy set a cake on the couch, and his little dog jumped up and crapped on it. But for sound etc. I think pieces are fine. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyushPresley Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Weight is NOT the key. A good LP is NOT the heaviest' date=' nor is the best mahogany the heaviest.[/quote'] I agree on a good LP is not the heaviest but one of the best Mahogany considered as the Cuban Mahogany is the most heaviest and the most strongest Mahogany than any other mahogany. There are some Mahogany from India, Philippines etc which are of low quality and are comparatively lighter that superior Mahogany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I agree on a good LP is not the heaviest but one of the best Mahogany considered as the Cuban Mahogany is the most heaviest and the most strongest Mahogany than any other mahogany. There are some Mahogany from India' date=' Philippines etc which are of low quality and are comparatively lighter that superior Mahogany.[/quote'] Considering the fact that the English and Spanish ship builders, and English and early American furniture builders wiped out the known supply of Cuban Mahogany by the end of 19th century, I seriously doubt any LP was ever made from Cuban Mahogany. They most assuredly used Honduran Mahogany. Only during the past 25 years has a stand of virgin Cuban Mahogany been found on a Caribbean island, having been overlooked in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyushPresley Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Considering the fact that the English and Spanish ship builders' date=' and English and early American furniture builders wiped out the known supply of Cuban Mahogany by the end of 19th century, I seriously doubt any LP was ever made from Cuban Mahogany. They most assuredly used Honduran Mahogany. Only during the past 25 years has a stand of virgin Cuban Mahogany been found on a Caribbean island, having been overlooked in the past.[/quote'] I didn't mean that Gibson uses Cuban Mahogany, I was telling Marx that Mahogany do have differences in their weight according to their quality..and that the Cuban mahogany is one of the best and heaviest of all mahoganies.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 My flametop Epi LP weighs 9.5 lbs and my '56 Goldtop Epi weighs 8.5 lbs. My Gibson Studio LP weighs around the same as the flametop. I have a '79 Strat that has a Swamp Ash body and it feels heavier than any of them. Construction is just about as important as the woods in terms of tone and sustain. We've had discussions about bolt on necks vs glued tenon necks. My Strat just sustains forever with a 3 bolt micro tilt adjustable neck that limits the contact area of the neck joint due to the steel wedge that is used to adjust the tilt. The bottom line is play a lot of the same model and pick the one you like. There are so many factors that enter into tone, action, sustain, finish, and general playability that you can't determine what makes a great guitar. 100 guitars made on the same line will each have their own personality. You just have to find one that has the "lucky" combination of materials, workmanship, and that great piece of wood that makes it a keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDx Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Hmmmm..... my take is yes' date=' it may have an alder (or something else, for all we know) top (under maple veneer), and no, it's not solid mahogany - body not one slab of wood, likely 3 at the minimum, and it's not mahogany as we know it...... it's:-k "mahogany" .... search various Epiphone forums, there's been much discussion as to woods used . This isn't to say they're bad woods, just not top of the line quality.....which one can't expect at this price point.[/quote'] Hope my original reply didn't come across the wrong way...... I definitely have no problem with Epi's choice of woods, at least as evidenced on my LP +top - "real mahogany," "Asian mahogany," whatever.......as long as it sounds and feels right to the owner, that's all that matters. 3 pc body ?? maple veneer ??? Me no care .... To the OP, your choice of an LP STD is a fine one - enjoy her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 ..and that the Cuban mahogany is one of the best and heaviest of all mahoganies..Best for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Nelson Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Best for what? end tables... Mr.Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibplayer Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 My flametop Epi LP weighs 9.5 lbs and my '56 Goldtop Epi weighs 8.5 lbs. My Gibson Studio LP weighs around the same as the flametop. I have a '79 Strat that has a Swamp Ash body and it feels heavier than any of them. Construction is just about as important as the woods in terms of tone and sustain. We've had discussions about bolt on necks vs glued tenon necks. My Strat just sustains forever with a 3 bolt micro tilt adjustable neck that limits the contact area of the neck joint due to the steel wedge that is used to adjust the tilt. The bottom line is play a lot of the same model and pick the one you like. There are so many factors that enter into tone' date=' action, sustain, finish, and general playability that you can't determine what makes a great guitar. 100 guitars made on the same line will each have their own personality. You just have to find one that has the "lucky" combination of materials, workmanship, and that great piece of wood that makes it a keeper.[/quote'] And that is really all we need to know. Well put Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 end tables... Mr.Nelson I knew it!!! I just wasn't sure if it was coffee table or end tables. Don't want to go spreading bad info ya know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Nelson Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I knew it!!! I just wasn't sure if it was coffee table or end tables. Don't want to go spreading bad info ya know. No, it's end tables...the best mahogany for coffee tables comes from the rain forests of Bavaria... Swientania Berchtesgaden... Mr.Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 No' date=' it's end tables...the best mahogany for coffee tables comes from the rain forests of Bavaria... Swientania Berchtesgaden... Mr.Nelson[/quote']Hmmmm... I love CHOCOLATE BAVARIAN CREME PIE, wonder if they use mahogany to stoke the stove when making it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generation zero Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think the reason some epi lps are so darkly stained on the back is just for that.. to hide the seams. TWANG Every epi I've ever seen with a multi-piece body and a transparent finish has a mahogany veneer on the back... To hide the seams. The dark stain is probably more for making the veneer match the sides of the body better, as many veneers end up being a shade or two off from a solid stick of the same species of wood. This is because in most cases, the veneer comes from a different factory, or in many cases, a different supplier entirely. It is almost unheard of to have a chunk of solid wood stock and a piece of veneer come from the same tree. So color variations quite often have to be compensated for in the finishing process. This information comes firsthand from 12 years experience in the cabinetmaking industry... I would almost be certain the same facts apply to guitar makers... Lumber is lumber, and must come from lumber suppliers no matter what you are building with it, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 MarxBros wrote: I knew it!!! I just wasn't sure if it was coffee table or end tables. Don't want to go spreading bad info ya know. Mr/ Nelson wrote: No, it's end tables...the best mahogany for coffee tables comes from the rain forests of Bavaria... Swientania Berchtesgaden... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, If you really want to make a good guitar, rip apart your grandmother's 2" thick mahogany dining room table made in the 20's and band saw it to shape. Back then, no one cared about the environment. They just clear cut all the good stuff and hauled it back to make furniture. Had to say that...couldn't help myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Now' date=' If you really want to make a good guitar, rip apart your grandmother's 2" thick mahogany dining room table made in the 20's and band saw it to shape. Back then, no one cared about the environment. They just clear cut all the good stuff and hauled it back to make furniture. Had to say that...couldn't help myself![/quote'] I'll bet dollars to donuts that grannie's table is a veneered table. They've been doing that to conserve prime woods, since the 1860's. In fact, plywood was first made by the Egyptians over 5000(yep) years ago. Right about the same time they first used the dovetail joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan 58 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 My 97 EPI Les paul does not have veneer on the back of it. Stan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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