mgrmatt Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Hello, I see from time to time on ebay Epiphones with the Gibson style headstock produced in Japan. I was wondering what years Epiphones were produced in Japan with the Gibson characteristics, how to spot what is real or what might possibly be a fake? Thanks, Matt
dubstar Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 if you search, there are several recent threads with lots of information and pictures...
Emetry Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 As with anything that can and will be made counterfit, guitars have MANY different indicators of fake/real goods. This is a good starting guide for you to take a look at. http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/CounterfeitGibsons/ It is Gibson specific, but there are many similarities that you can look at. Also, pictures on forums like this one can help identify fakes.
charlie brown Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Epiphone Japan (last produced in 2006) and the earlier "Orville" brand (Gibson Japan) all had the Gibson headstock. Some Burny, Tokai, and other's do to. The best of those brands will be the ones still made in Japan, for the Japanese market. Anything produced in Japan or any Asian country, with "Gibson" inlayed in the headstock will be a fake! All official Gibson Japan, or Epiphone Japan, have either "Orville" or "Epiphone" brand inlays (with Gibson on the TRC). There are tons of fakes, coming out of China, too. Some are quite well done (cosmetically), but far lacking in build quality. However, the actual "Orville" and Epiphone Japan versions are excellent, top notch guitars! Here is my (2006) Epiphone MIJ '61 SG, for example. CB
mgrmatt Posted January 22, 2009 Author Posted January 22, 2009 Thanks CB, That's what I was looking for. I've seen a buch of stuff about fakes, just not much about the actual years of production in Japan. Matt
charlie brown Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Thanks CB' date=' That's what I was looking for. I've seen a buch of stuff about fakes, just not much about the actual years of production in Japan.Matt[/quote'] Yeah, Matt...there's a lot of info on this forum, and if you Google "Orville," "Epiphone Japan," or "Gibson Japan," there's a lot of information available, that way, as well. Cheers, CB Here's another bit of information: Orville and Orville by Gibson Guitars (1988-1998): Named after the founding father of Gibson guitars, Orville H. Gibson, these fully-authorized Japanese guitars came into existence through partnerships between Gibson USA and various Japanese manufacturers and dealers (such as Aria, Matsumoku and Yamano Music) that extend back into the 1970s. It wasn't until 1986 when Yamano Gakki took over the distribution of Gibson (and Korean-made Epiphone) guitars in Japan, and later in 1988, decided to expand their lineup of guitar models, that things really got rolling for the Orville and Orville by Gibson brands. Yamano Gakki decided to go with a different name for this expanded line of guitars, that were designed in the exact form of the most valuable and sought-after classic Gibson guitars. It was decided upon to use "Orville" as the new brand name, dedicating the brand to the founding father. As it was decided that some of these guitars would be equipped with Japanese-made pickups and some with USA-made pickups, they decided to include the post-script "by Gibson" for the models that had pickups of American origin. All “Orville” guitars were equipped with Japanese replica PAF pickups, while the “Orville by Gibson” guitars were usually equipped with authentic Gibson USA PAF ’57 Classics, and sometimes the original Bill Lawrence HB-R/HB-L or Gibson 490s. Other than the difference in headstock logo and pickups, there are no other hidden or outward differences that I am aware of. Many collector friends have said that they think the Orville by Gibsons are overall better guitars and while this may be so, many collectors have disagreed with this notion. There were many high-end and mid-range models of these guitars under both logos; I think mainly that the model number and original price dictated quality, not particularly the logo. While somewhat confusing, you can determine where your Orville or Orville by Gibson guitar was made, the year it was made, and even the month it was made, by looking at the back of the headstock. There were 5 different methods used to date Orville and Orville by Gibson guitars and two factories involved with building them, so I've developed the simple chart below to assist you... *F = Factory: G, J & K beginning the serial numbers denote that is was made by the Terada factory: the "G" ink stamp means the guitar should have Gibson USA pickups, and "J" for Japanese pickups. K stands for Kuramae, Yamano's wholesales division. No letter beginning the serial number = FujiGen Factory-built. *Y = Production Year *M = Production Month *P = Production Number Epiphone Japan Guitars (1998-Present): In 1998, Gibson and Yamano Gakki decided to end the production of the Orville models to focus on the expanded production of the Epiphone line, which was designed both for the Japan domestic market as well as exported models destined for far-off lands. The domestic models had the Gibson open-book headstock design while the exported models were given the usual Epiphone design. The regular line as well as their "Elite" line of guitars were all made in the same factories as the Orvilles and Orville by Gibsons. In 2006, Gibson ended its relationship with Yamano Music.Expert Take: You can research and find in much greater detail, information about the histories of these brands on other websites, but for me, the important part is to judge an instrument upon its merits. This is the most useful part for people looking at buying an Orville, Orville by Gibson or Epiphone guitar. My overall judgment is that, while these guitars are of higher collectible value to guitarists because of the affiliation with, and use of the name, Gibson, this by no means is a testament to it being a better instrument than other brands. I rank these guitars on the whole as mediocre Japanese guitars. This is a bold statement, I know, but when you compare these guitars to early Greco, Tokai and Aria Pro II clones, they just come up a little short in the mojo and vibe department. If you want a Gibson guitar, and want it made right, then an Orville will do. The standards to which these were held to were so conforming that I found most of these instruments to be carbon copies of Gibsons and also of themselves. Few stood out as stellar, unique instruments. This was not the case for Greco, Tokai and Aria Pro II... made to high standards as well, these brands often hand-carved their necks to feel different and finish options were not pinned down to only a few standard options, so to ensure each guitar had a different feel, vibe and even tone, since they all used so many different types of pickups. The Orvilles either had the Japanese low-quality humbuckers or the Gibson USA humbuckers, so the tone was not as varied. Don't get me wrong, Orvilles are great guitars, and I found them all to be made much better than their USA counterparts, but they all lacked the unique feel and playability that has earned Greco, Tokai and Aria Pro II their growing stellar reputations. And also, don't judge an Orville by whether it has "by Gibson" on the headstock or not. I've had over 100 Orvilles and Orville by Gibsons and there were exceptional examples of both model types. Get your hands on one and see for yourself ; ) Andrew Home Guitars Coming Soon Recently-Sold Guitars How to Buy Track Your Guitar Industry Buzz History of Japanese Guitars Guitar Setup Tips Contact Us Links History of Orville, Orville by Gibson and Epiphone Japan Model Guitars Mfg. Years Serial # Example Making Sense... Notes... Additional Notes... 1988-1989 S/N Type 1 FYYPPPP J884016 Made by Terada factory in 1988, production # 4016. *The "J" in this model # denotes the use of Japanese pickups. If you have an acoustic guitar made by ObGibson, you will see an "A" before the rest of the serial number. 1989-1998 S/N Type 2 FYMMPPP 105437 Made by FujiGen factory in May of 1991, production # 437. *This example has no letter at the beginning, which was the way FujiGen made their models. 1989-1993 S/N Type 3 F YYPPPP K 026154 Made by Terada factory in 1992, production # 6154. *** The serial numbers were ink-stamped onto silver stickers attached to the backs of the headstocks. If you see no serial number on your Orville, the sticker was likely removed. Originally, I bought one of these in Japan when I was there and there was a little "Made in Korea" sticker under the silver serial number sticker. This contradicts what information is accepted, so if you have one like this, let me know. 1989-1998 '57 & '59 Les Paul Reissues and the '61 SG Reissue S/N Type 4 FY MPPP G3 07415 Made by Terada factory in July of 1993, production # 415. There is a space between the year and the month/production #. 1989-1998 '57 & '59 Les Paul Reissues and the '61 SG Reissue S/N Type 5 FY PPPP G2 5478 Made by Terada factory in 1992, production # 5478. There is a space between the year and the month/production #.
JEPI Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Hello' date=' I see from time to time on ebay Epiphones with the Gibson style headstock produced in Japan. I was wondering what years Epiphones were produced in Japan with the Gibson characteristics, how to spot what is real or what might possibly be a fake? Thanks, Matt [/quote'] Some were also made by Samick in Korea...............J
Emetry Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Some were also made by Samick in Korea...............J And for some series (I.E. the Special II or that era SG) the Samicks are pretty sought after.
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