If you're bored...

[ButchCassidy]

Check out my band!

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=252834056

 

Both of these songs were recorded with Epiphones...

I know, the songs are very bad quality. Maybe I'll take this time to ask everyone about some recording tips!

We're using an 8-track tascam recorder... what's the best way to make all this sound better?

mic tips?

Thanks, BC

[brad1]

Overall, not bad. I liked the lead guitar in the first song. And I kind of liked the song too.I didn't listen to all of the 2nd.

My tips:

1) Sounds like some tracks are just recorded at too high a level. Either lower the level, or move the mics back.

2) The drums need to be muffled, or dampened. The snare sounds awful, and I don't hear many cymbals or much of a high hat.

3) Most importantly, get a new drummer.

[animalfarm]

Reminds me of my early "garage band" days. I agree with Brad, but I bailed out halfway

thru each song. You did ask for feedback, and that's how we learn...

 

Pros: 1. You're trying!

2. It's on the 'net for all to hear!

 

Cons: 1. It seems that not all members of the band have the same sense of timing regarding

playing together. This may be corrected with practice, but either it's a natural talent or not.

Practice!

2. MY pet peeve - TUNING!!!! We seem to be a bit off from instrument to instrument, are you

tuning by ear or with a digital tuner?

 

I'm going to borrow from an article regarding tuning that I enjoyed, I'll post the site, read the

ENTIRE article!!!

 

Here's another tip to make your life easier. You know how when you plug a guitar in and pluck a string, sometimes the tuner needle (or LED display) wavers back and forth and drives you crazy? And you have to pluck it every which way before getting a "good reading" which finally "settles down?" Do these three things:

 

1) switch your guitar to its rhythm (neck) pickup, if it has one;

2) roll your guitar's tone knobs all the way off, to remove all the highs; and then

3) pluck the open string right over the twelfth fret, not over the pickup. Try it; you'll be amazed.

 

Why does this work? Here's a quick physics refresher. The sound of a string being plucked is composed of a fundamental tone (the "note" itself, which also happens to be the lowest and loudest tone made by the string) mixed with a series of increasingly higher-toned, lower-volume harmonics, starting with the octave (or "2nd harmonic") and then going on up to include higher tones that are NOT all octaves. Each harmonic corresponds to the length of the string divided by a whole number. The harmonic overtones are referred to by these numbers, and they correspond to those little "nodes" or dead spots on the strings where you can lightly place your fingers and get little chimey sounds. The 2nd harmonic or "octave" spot is exactly halfway along the string, right over 12th fret. The 3rd harmonic corresponds to one-third the length of the string, and can be found over frets 7 and 19, the 4th harmonic can be found over frets 5, 12 and 24 (or right over the neck pickup), the 5th harmonic over frets 4, 9 and 16, etc.

 

Several things to note:

1) The harmonics that are "powers of two" (2nd, 4th, 8th) are all octaves of the lowest, or "fundamental" note. To a tuner, they are the SAME note.

2) All the other harmonics represent DIFFERENT notes. It's the unique combination of fundamental plus these various harmonics that give any instrument it's particular character or timbre.

3) How you pluck the string, where you pluck the string, and where the pickup is located under the string, determines the blend of "fundamental vs. harmonics" that you hear. Pluck it near the bridge, and you get a twangy sound with lots of high tones. Pluck it near the middle, and you get mostly a deeper, more "pure" tone. Pluck it hard, and that initial burst of energy will cause more high harmonics. Put a pickup near the end of the string (at the bridge), and it will pick up more of those high harmonics; put it closer to the middle, and the fundamental tone will come through louder.

 

So... What is the tuner looking for? The fundamental note of the string, and nothing else! All the other tones made by the vibrating string "confuse" the tuner, making it indecisive. Roll off your highs, use the rhythm pickup, pluck near the middle... and just mail me a check, thank you very much. (Important: remember to switch everything BACK before you start playing the next song!)

 

 

Jack Endino, "Tuning Nightmares Explained"

www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html

 

Who am I? No-one important, just a poor-azz musician, too. If anyone wishes to slam

my input, I await your wrath! Good Luck with the Band!

 

 

"[/img]

[MarxBros]

Reminds me of my early "garage band" days. I agree with Brad' date=' but I bailed out halfway

thru each song. You did ask for feedback, and that's how we learn...

 

Pros: 1. You're trying!

2. It's on the 'net for all to hear!

 

Cons: 1. It seems that not all members of the band have the same sense of timing regarding

playing together. This may be corrected with practice, but either it's a natural talent or not.

Practice!

2. MY pet peeve - TUNING!!!! We seem to be a bit off from instrument to instrument, are you

tuning by ear or with a digital tuner?

 

I'm going to borrow from an article regarding tuning that I enjoyed, I'll post the site, read the

ENTIRE article!!!

 

Here's another tip to make your life easier. You know how when you plug a guitar in and pluck a string, sometimes the tuner needle (or LED display) wavers back and forth and drives you crazy? And you have to pluck it every which way before getting a "good reading" which finally "settles down?" Do these three things:

 

[u']1) switch your guitar to its rhythm (neck) pickup, if it has one;

2) roll your guitar's tone knobs all the way off, to remove all the highs; and then

3) pluck the open string right over the twelfth fret, not over the pickup. Try it; you'll be amazed. [/u]

 

Why does this work? Here's a quick physics refresher. The sound of a string being plucked is composed of a fundamental tone (the "note" itself, which also happens to be the lowest and loudest tone made by the string) mixed with a series of increasingly higher-toned, lower-volume harmonics, starting with the octave (or "2nd harmonic") and then going on up to include higher tones that are NOT all octaves. Each harmonic corresponds to the length of the string divided by a whole number. The harmonic overtones are referred to by these numbers, and they correspond to those little "nodes" or dead spots on the strings where you can lightly place your fingers and get little chimey sounds. The 2nd harmonic or "octave" spot is exactly halfway along the string, right over 12th fret. The 3rd harmonic corresponds to one-third the length of the string, and can be found over frets 7 and 19, the 4th harmonic can be found over frets 5, 12 and 24 (or right over the neck pickup), the 5th harmonic over frets 4, 9 and 16, etc.

 

Several things to note:

1) The harmonics that are "powers of two" (2nd, 4th, 8th) are all octaves of the lowest, or "fundamental" note. To a tuner, they are the SAME note.

2) All the other harmonics represent DIFFERENT notes. It's the unique combination of fundamental plus these various harmonics that give any instrument it's particular character or timbre.

3) How you pluck the string, where you pluck the string, and where the pickup is located under the string, determines the blend of "fundamental vs. harmonics" that you hear. Pluck it near the bridge, and you get a twangy sound with lots of high tones. Pluck it near the middle, and you get mostly a deeper, more "pure" tone. Pluck it hard, and that initial burst of energy will cause more high harmonics. Put a pickup near the end of the string (at the bridge), and it will pick up more of those high harmonics; put it closer to the middle, and the fundamental tone will come through louder.

 

So... What is the tuner looking for? The fundamental note of the string, and nothing else! All the other tones made by the vibrating string "confuse" the tuner, making it indecisive. Roll off your highs, use the rhythm pickup, pluck near the middle... and just mail me a check, thank you very much. (Important: remember to switch everything BACK before you start playing the next song!)

 

 

Jack Endino, "Tuning Nightmares Explained"

www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html

 

Who am I? No-one important, just a poor-azz musician, too. If anyone wishes to slam

my input, I await your wrath! Good Luck with the Band!

 

 

"[/img]

Tuning needs to be even tempered, a proper check up and down the neck across all strings is required to be sure you have balanced your strings evenly so it's not overly sweet for some chords/positons and sour for others.

 

One of my main pet peeves for guitarists, FEW tune decently.

 

I got a chance many years ago to sit down with Johnny Smith and his method of tuning was a revelation for me. Tuning pure with an electronic tuner will not get you there, period.

 

 

BTW...love the Frankenstein pic.

[ButchCassidy]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, we do need to learn to tune better. I guess the first step would be to purchase a tuner... imagine that.

 

We had a drummer in our band that was pretty good but he must have had A.D.D because he couldn't remember any of the songs after we'd played them. So now my friend is the drummer, and he is just learning. He's getting a lot better though; a lot better than when we recorded these songs.

This is my first band after all, so I guess there's a lot of room for improvement.

 

Did anyone listen to the solo on cradle robbin?

[animalfarm]

Thanks for the replies. Yes' date=' we do need to learn to tune better. I guess

the first step would be to purchase a tuner... imagine that.

This is my first band after all...=quote']

 

Well, DUH - you DIDN'T SAY THIS IS YOUR FIRST BAND!!! Sorry if I was overly critical, I've/We ALL

have been there... Now, on to the good stuff. I use a "KORG CA-30 Digital Tuner", $19.95 at

Musicians Friend, small, will fit in your guitar case pocket no problemo. Has LCD display/Needle,

will more than fill the void. Works with the "turn off the tone, use neck pick-up" technique I

mentioned earlier. Have EVERYONE tune same way, same turner. Other members will have their

own personal choice - it's like motor oil, everyone likes a different brand. Puh-leeeze get one, you'll

notice a real improvement, as your ear can fool you, especially if you're tired, drunk, "chemically

fortified", etc. And I DO have a tuning fork, too. (no, don't eat with it...).

 

Marx Bros. mentioned "tempered tuning" - I understand what he's talking about, but this may be

too advanced at this point. LATER when you're GREATER!!!!

[brad1]

Did anyone listen to the solo on cradle robbin?

I guess you didn't read my post; the very first one.

I specifically mentioned it. Read it!

[ButchCassidy]

Yeah, next on list- Tuner. It's kind of a bummer going on to youtube or tuning by ear everytime you want to tune (or close to tune).

 

Oh, sorry brad! between your post and the two after it, it was a lot to take in. But thanks!

[Whitmore Willy]

Butch,

 

If you are bored?

Nothing boring about listening to someone putting out their efforts.

I like the songs. Did you guys write them?

Musically? Ya....timing and tuning

Recording?....Volumes are WAY overloaded.

 

Solution to recording problem: Don't know. I ain't there to see what you are doing. If you are oveloading your mics....

...back off. If you are overloading your board... Try recording at -6 to -9db on individual tracks. Do a mixdown.

If the volume is too weak on the final mixdown, normalize it or add master limiting if you have the availability. If not, increase the final volume before saving. One (and only 1) of the basics of recording: If it's not loud enough, I can always make the track louder.

 

Quote: "It Ain't Easy"

(Long John Baldry)

[LHC- Jr.]

Did anyone listen to the solo on cradle robbin?

 

Yes. IMO the first solo is really nice, although I think it sort of starts to loose its appeal around 1:53 or so. The second solo sounds a bit off to me, don't know why...

 

But that doesn't mean I wasn't impressed. Thanks for posting the link!

[Hooligan]

great effort. Reminds me of early "Mother love Bone" stuff.......

 

Don't a bit discouraged by any comments made. Use them as motivation to improve.

 

Nicely done! The solo you mentioned is good but let me challenge you to research David Gilmours thoughts on guitar solos. When writing a solo make sure it's there to add flavour to a song and not there to just show off our talents. The solo seemed to me to be a bit out of place at times. Yep he can solo but it really didn't fit with the groove of this song!

 

Keep up the good work!

[ButchCassidy]

Yes, we did write them. We are a two piece band, but on one of the songs we decided to add some bass.

It's pretty bad when playing live sounds a lot better than your recorded stuff.

 

I agree, the second solo on cradle robbin is a bit off... will have to change that up when we re-record. And my solo is so quiet on the second song you can barely hear it too...

 

I guess some think our music is metal... but it's really not, we actually hardly use any distortion at all... it's just our poor recording techniques.

Our timing is also off because of the way we record drums. We usually record guitar on a track then add drums, but I'm starting to think we'll do it visa versa. Plus keep the mics bac from that amp!

Someone was telling me once about some mic in a trash can trick... anyone know what he was talking about?

And is it better to record in small spaces? These are the things I'm trumped about.

I'm using an AKG D5 to record basically everything. Should we invest in other mics as well?

 

Thanks a lot!

[Dave]

I noticed the same timing issues that other forum members mentioned. Your drummer needs a little work in this regard. It sounds as if he is trying to keep up with the other musicians instead of setting a pace and having the others follow it.

 

Vocals are overmodulated. The vu meter peaks should never go positive (over 0) at any time. Sometimes this means overdubbing the ones that peak out. You can put 1.5 to 2.0 compression on the vocals to help keep this under control.

 

You can also compress the entire mix in the mastering process. This will help to even out the instruments so that you can hear all equally and the quiet passages don't get lost. You don't have quiet passages in this song, but the overall mix will benefit from compression. A master level compression application will bring out the dynamics of the recording.

 

Isolation: Put the drummer in another room if you can, or at least behind a partition. Then, mic each part of the kit separately so that you can mix down the drums. Invest in a multi-channel headphone amp and some headphone extension cords so that everyone is listening to the same mix while recording. Put a mic over the snare or from the side, another mic in front of the bass drum, and another in front of the cymbals. If you have enough, out another somewhere in the vicinity of the tom toms. Monitor the mix through headphones and adjust levels and mic placement for the best sound and balance. You may want to use a separate mixer board for the drums and route the board ouput to one or two tracks on the Tascam. You can create a stereo mix on the drums that way without eating up tracks on the recorder.

 

 

If you are having problems isolating amps that are mic'ed, orient them by facing them into a wall or curtains. You can also find some old pieces of carpet and create some amp "cabins" in corners of the room that prevent the sound from one amp from reaching the mic of another. If you can plug directly into the board and get the sound you want, it is even easier. If you have closets in the room, you can put amps in the closet, mic them and close the door. Professional recording studios have partitions covered with carpet that have little cubbyholes or "stalls" for amps. If you do this and create a mutiple headphone setup for monitoring, you will be way ahead at mixdown.

 

Get a good vocal condenser mic with phantom power. The Audio-Technica AT2020 is a good low cost home studio mic. Invest in a pop filter and record the vocals over again with the singer about a foot or so away from the mic. Ride the levels so that you don't overdrive.

 

The objective is to get good recordings of each instrument on separate tracks in such a way that when you listen to the individual tracks, you hear only that instrument with very little, if any, of the other instruments heard in that track. Once you can do that, you can mix effectively and produce a custom mix that results in a good recording.

 

http://homerecording.com/ is a good website with a forum where you can read posts from other home recording hobbyists.

[animalfarm]

ButchC. - As you collect information that you find useful (ie: the Tuning Nightmares article),

print it out, put it in a notebook. Start collecting reference material for ANY music-related

topic that interests you. My personal notebooks started small but have grown to

Library of Congress proportions. They now contain info on guitar setup, refinishing, wiring

diagrams, tech specs for all equipment I've owned and want to own, etc. Why? You

can't remember EVERYTHING! Get it in print for future reference.

 

You're a 2-piece band, then? Funny how that works. MY garage band started with myself

and another guitarist I met thru...BOY SCOUTS! He, in turn, knew a drummer. We met,

got along, decided to join forces. The drummer knew a TROMBONE player, but we needed

a Bassist, so we asked the trombone player if he would be interested in us teaching him

to "play" bass. He was, and he did learn. Turns out he was GOOD at it! (He never wanted

to change notes during songs, just kept trying to slide the Bass neck in and out...)

OUR problem was a VOCALIST. Every time we found a decent singer, he would get in

trouble with the law, and bye, bye...

 

Make your damn notebooks! MAKE 'EM, MAKE 'EM!!! THAT'S AN ORDER!!!!

[Hiberna]

sounds very white stripe esk, and i like the white stripes.

 

however some parts go out of time, then suddenly jump back in. I suggest set playing to a metronome, belive it or not it DOES help =/

 

ive recorded all our stuff using my riviera, and it sounds much better then most of these gibbos and fenders sound, really it does.

[Dr. Rock]

 

1) switch your guitar to its rhythm (neck) pickup' date=' if it has one;

2) roll your guitar's tone knobs all the way off, to remove all the highs; and then

3) pluck the open string right over the twelfth fret, not over the pickup. Try it; you'll be amazed. [/b'][/u]

 

 

 

Thanks for the tips!!

[Dr. Rock]

Don't a bit discouraged by any comments made. Use them as motivation to improve.

 

Wise statement!!

It's true for all aspect of life!

[ButchCassidy]

sounds very white stripe esk' date=' and i like the white stripes.

 

however some parts go out of time, then suddenly jump back in. I suggest set playing to a metronome, belive it or not it DOES help =/

 

ive recorded all our stuff using my riviera, and it sounds much better then most of these gibbos and fenders sound, really it does.[/quote']

 

A metronome is a good idea, I wouldn't mind having one for personal practice either.

 

These were recorded with my epi dot before the singlecoil pickups. Not sure what I might use if I record these again.

Oh, and thanks, I like the white stripes a lot too.

[Red 333]

I think your timing issues will work themselves out as you guys play more together, and especially as your drummer gets more experience. He's actually pretty good for someone just starting out. Your vocalist is very good, by the way. You guys sound like you have a lot of promise. Keep practicing, and play out as often as you can.

 

Best of luck,

 

Red 333

[Hiberna]

 

A metronome is a good idea' date=' I wouldn't mind having one for personal practice either.

 

These were recorded with my epi dot before the singlecoil pickups. Not sure what I might use if I record these again.

Oh, and thanks, I like the white stripes a lot too. [/quote']

 

I suggest some sort of les paul, if you want that beefy sound then thats the way to go. Hollowbodys do give very different distorted tones to other guitars, its why i use em:d/

[ButchCassidy]

I think your timing issues will work themselves out as you guys play more together' date=' and especially as your drummer gets more experience. He's actually pretty good for someone just starting out. Your vocalist is very good, by the way. You guys sound like you have a lot of promise. Keep practicing, and play out as often as you can.

 

Best of luck,

 

Red 333[/quote']

 

That's me on vocals, so thanks a lot! Yeah, i got my drummer a drum set so he doesn't have to borrow other peoples now... so he should be practicing a lot more.

 

 

I suggest some sort of les paul' date=' if you want that beefy sound then thats the way to go. Hollowbodys do give very different distorted tones to other guitars, its why i use em:d/ [/quote']

 

These recordings sounded a lot different on the 8track then when we put them online. The sound I was getting out of the hollowbody was satisfying. Down the road I wouldn't mind a solid body guitar, maybe LP. Maybe sg, danelectro or telecaster clone too though.