aphawki Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ok so I didn't really think of this until Twang was talking about his trip to GC for the presidents day sale. Well I too had to make the trip. I was on my way back to admire the Valve Junior (seems like everytime I get something it's always so cool to look at it in the showroom as well....hmmm) but every time I go in there I see that the extension cab is always plugged into a different ohm. And come to think of it...when the salesperson was showing me the amp he was switching it around. That can't be a good thing right???? And to boot, I think I am passing the staff of GC's guitar knowledge...so I think it's time to get a job there and try to change them from the inside! Ok maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I was on my way back to admire the Valve Junior...' date=' but every time I go in there I see that the extension cab is always plugged into a different ohm. And come to think of it...when the salesperson was showing me the amp he was switching it around. That can't be a good thing right????[/quote']Most experts say match amp/speaker impedences -- but valve amps are forgiving within limits. http://geofex.com/tubeampfaq/taffram.htm However, there are some amp techs/builders who say to use the full windings of the OT (the highest rated ohm output) regardless of the speaker ohms. They are a minority. Their theory is that by using the full OT windings you extend its life, reduce heat buildup, and produce tone with fuller bottom-end. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aphawki Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 That seems like a lot of learning right there....i am going to go ahead and stick with my current idea of keeping the 16 ohm speaking in the 16 ohm jack. I will do that reading...and thanks for the link!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Hopefully he wasn't switching the speaker connection while the amp was on... that would not be a good thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDx Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Hopefully he wasn't switching the speaker connection while the amp was on... that would not be a good thing ..... but would you be surprised if he was ??? I can't handle GC ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlagJones Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Most experts say match amp/speaker impedences -- but valve amps are forgiving within limits. http://geofex.com/tubeampfaq/taffram.htm However' date=' there are some amp techs/builders who say to use the full windings of the OT (the highest rated ohm output) regardless of the speaker ohms. [u']They are a minority[/u]. Their theory is that by using the full OT windings you extend its life, reduce heat buildup, and produce tone with fuller bottom-end. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" OK, I read the link and it says that with amps that have a stand by switch you should turn it off by hitting the power switch. I have always switched to stand by first before powering off. What is correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvar Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I was looking at a Crate V33 Palomino that had been on the floor at GC for some time. I had seen it on several different trips there. I decided I wanted to buy it, I went to try it out, it was already turned on, standby off, so I plugged in- no sound! I looked in the back- no speaker at all was plugged in- no telling how long that amp had been turned on w/o a load on it- I'm sure the trans would have been red-hot and close to failure- so I passed on the amp- If I were every to buy an amp from GC, I would demand a new-in-box unit. I do wish they would at least train their people on the basics of equipment This is just one of many reasons why really don't like to do business with GC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlagJones Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I was looking at a Crate V33 Palomino that had been on the floor at GC for some time. I had seen it on several different trips there.I decided I wanted to buy it' date=' I went to try it out, it was already turned on, standby off, so I plugged in- no sound! I looked in the back- no speaker at all was plugged in- no telling how long that amp had been turned on w/o a load on it- I'm sure the trans would have been red-hot and close to failure- so I passed on the amp- If I were every to buy an amp from GC, I would demand a new-in-box unit. I do wish they would at least train their people on the basics of equipment This is just one of many reasons why really don't like to do business with GC[/quote'] Anyone that walks into the store can play with the equipment so I don't think it is necessarily a GC employee that left the amp in that state. I could just as easily have been some punk kid just messing with the amp. Of course GC would sell you a new in the box model not the one off the floor unless it was their last one or you really really wanted it. They would give you an open box discount for the one off the floor. At least you have a GC near you, I got nothing less than 2 hours away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The guy in there started to tell me about this vj. until I told him I had four already. He was a nice guy, I'm not knocking him, but his information was sort of rumor based. I told him what mine had and said I may bring it is so he could hear one modded. I'll probably bring this one back and show him what a few simple changes can do for comparison. I don't know what was up with that crate v5.. I had an impression that it would be a fairly serious competitor to the vj, both stock. but it really was laughable. crappy speaker? lousy tubes? I just couldn't tell. I know the difference between it and the combo were night and day and immediately apparent. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aphawki Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 See Twang we all just have good taste...we can't help it...that's just how we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 There's some very good info on this subject in Dave Hunter's The Guitar Amp Handbook. That book is a must-have for anyone serious about amp selection, care, mods, kit building etc. As far as buying a floor model, unless there's a steep discount and a no-hassle 90-day return warranty on it, I would hold out for a new one and make sure that it is factory sealed. I wouldn't be nearly concerned about an amp not connected to a load (there's no real harm to the tubes, circuitry and the OT and PT are virtually indestructable on guitar amps), as I would about it not having the factory or correct tubes installed, wrong bias, or being a return/repair that some yutz had bought and thrashed with no intention of keeping it. However even the best speakers can be blown or life significantly shortened if plugged/unplugged while the output is live. Those little copper voice coil leads are fragile! A couple of other indispensible desktop references are Dave Hunter's Guitar Rigs: Classic Guitar and Amp Combinations (current), and Jack Darr's Electric Guitar Amplifier Handbook (out of print). More good references at: http://www.amptone.com/booksamps.htm#_Toc142020565 Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlagJones Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I just ordered both Dave Hunter books earlier this week from Amazon. Glad I seemed to have made a good choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I wouldn't be nearly concerned about an amp not connected to a load (there's no real harm to the tubes' date=' circuitry and the OT and PT are virtually indestructable on guitar amps[/quote'] There are a fair number that would beg to differ on this point. Many an OT has been reported to have been blown from the forums I'm on when the user forgot to connect the speaker to the amp. (this would be a tube amp not solid state) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Fair enough. Odd that it's never happened to me and I've never seen it either. Must be those finicky new OTs from Remulac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-theory Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I wouldn't be nearly concerned about an amp not connected to a load (there's no real harm to the tubes, circuitry and the OT and PT are virtually indestructable on guitar amps) More proof that you shouldn't believe everything that you read on the internet. There's no quicker way to destroy an output transformer on a tube amp than to run it without a load. This isn't even arguable. It's a fact of life. If you've gotten away with it in the past, it's not because the OT was indesctructable. It's because you got lucky. I've never seen it either. So, how long have you been an amp tech again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-theory Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Btw, that's a great shot of Lester. Was that at the Iridium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yeah, my amazing dumb luck, I got in early and was seated at the table eye-level with his pedal board. I was so close I could have tied his shoes without standing up. He was hilliarous, the penultimate showman, and his band was truly phenomenal (and I'm a complete jazz snob, Berklee grad, etc.). At the end of the show, he got up to sign autographs and started to teeter (he's 93 after all). I had to grab his arm to keep him from falling off the stage. This was August of last year, and it was the night of a lifetime, I'll never forget it. If you're able, it's worth the cost and effort, just be smarter than me and bring a real camera instead of a cell phone. If you get there early enough, he'll sign your LP during sound check (bring a nice one). Here's the link: http://iridiumjazzclub.com/talent.php?talent=1&month=09&year=2008 PS: Lester plays through the PA - so much for all the valve/SS controversy! PSS: You're probably right about the unterminated OT thing, I guess I just never thought to crank one up without a transducer at the other end. What do I know, I'm just a ****** player, not an amplifier tech. Back to the woodshed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis G Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 There was a show on PBS "American Masters" series about Les called "Chasing Sound". It's also available on DVD. It's well worth the hour invested and is pretty fascinating IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenrirlupus Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 do you mean while the amp was still on? that could be a bad thing... tube amp + no speaker = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedgeSG Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 "And to boot, I think I am passing the staff of GC's guitar knowledge" This isn't real hard to accomplish...if the staff is being schooled on anything it's how to shift the balance on trading in used gear. It's different store to store: but one used to be able to make some decent deals. Now only two things seem to be constant, A. your stuff, (even bordering on new), is worth less than 50% of what an abused floor model they have is. B. their stuff, if discounted, was marked-up to begin with so any alleged discount is simply a ruse on their part to come across as "helping out a valued, regular customer." I've made good relationships with some employees that translated into some pretty decent, (but not home-run), deals. If you happen to ever find a knowledgable chap in a GC realize that he will only be there for a short time... He'll either find a better employer or quickly grow tired of the daily nonsense or both. So any repeat business you forsee with him in the future likely won't be an option. The guy who replaces him will not be as qualified. The dumbing-down of the staff seems to be by design. One would think in the face of Circuit City's closing and Best Buy getting into their market they'ed be looking to improve rather than adding another stupid holday pseudo-sale. I've lost count of how many times I've heard, (in relation to an amp problem), "It's not any better, but the guy at GC just retubed it for me." Their solution to every amp with a tube's problem, think many of these "techs" ever even heard of the word "bias." I'd love to get my hands on the stuff they throw out assuming it ever makes it to the trash. The no-question returns policy does seem to work except for the no-question part. If you have a reciept, and stand your ground you can push an exchange through but the hassle, (and the fingerprinting), really almost makes one just look for other options. Ultimatley their goal anyway. If you keep your customers happy, throw them a bone ever so often, when the time comes for a new purchase they'll probably have you at the top of their shopping list. I will definately be considering my next purchases from other outlets. This is not to say that I've written GC outta the will yet but it's time to give some other guys a day in court. Really glad to see the new Trading Post section added to this site too I might add. Wedgie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-theory Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Their solution to every amp with a tube's problem, think many of these "techs" evereven heard of the word "bias." I'd love to get my hands on the stuff they throw out assuming it ever makes it to the trash. This isn't all GC or any other store's fault entirely. Amp builders have been building the impression that there's no such thing as tube bias for many years, and one prominant tube maker has even capitalized on this by introducing an absurd numbering system, to further confuse people into thinking that, somehow, magically, tube amps don't ever need bias adjustment. As for what they throw away, if it's today's standard fare of stock OE tubes, they're not worth rescuing from the dumpster, imo. Yeah, my amazing dumb luck, I got in early and was seated at the table eye-level with his pedal board. I was fortunate enough to see Les on his 88th birthday. I actually planned the trip, when I found out that he was playing that night. Amazing guy. I chose the second show, because I wanted to get his autograph, but found out later that Al Dimeolo was a special guest at the first show. Bummage. Chasing sound was great. I saw it when it broadcast, and my kid has the DVD. Doesn't surprise me at all that he would run his guitar straight into the PA. He has no use for amp distortion, and he did design the sound system for that room. I strongly recommend anyone who's a player make the pilgrimage to NYC to see this national treasure, while you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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