m-theory Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Good stuff, m-theory. BTW, your name suggests super string theory...another interest of mine. The face of God, imo. I don't profess to even come close to understanding it, but to me, it looks like the core answer to all the great questions of the universe. It'd also make a great band name, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzric Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 This is the blues band' date=' and it's been through several incarnations over the past 3 years, as well as numerous periods of haitus. The only original members are the leader, who plays hammond, the drummer, and myself. The recordings on the page were made when we were a 9 piece band w/horns. Really cool stuff. Right now we're gearing up with our strongest lineup to date, for a blues competition this month, a show of our own in early June, and opening for a national act on June 20. Hopefully, we'll get a festival or two as well. We played the Fargo blues festival last year, and that was a lot of fun. Two of this band's members are MN music hall of fame inductees, and one was in a band that had a top 20 hit years ago. It's really cool to work with these guys...some heavily talented, very top notch professionals. This band has to juggle schedules with a national act that the bass player, drummer, and organ player all work for when he's gigging in the midwest. http://www.myspace.com/sweetpauliet This one is the pop/rock cover band...a rather dysfunctional organization, but it somehow stays busy fairly busy. This myspace account is finally being taken over by someone who's willing to put some time into it. I can't stand dinking around with them myself. This band has also seen some various incarnations over the past few years, and lead singer and I are the only original members at this point. The recordings were done a couple years ago. Working with this band is totally different than the blues band, for more than the obvious reasons. The blues band is a heavily rehearsed, precision-type band, whereas this one is much more of a footloose rock band. http://www.myspace.com/lunaseaband Here's the page for the Sunday jam. We don't have recorded music up here yet, but we will eventually. I have been known to drag my digital recorder out now and again, though I haven't for quite some time...I suppose I'm due. I do have some old recordings from a year or so ago that I could toss up on this site, but I kinda wanted to get fresh stuff together. If you're ever in the SW twin cities area on a Sunday evening, stop on by! We get some rather frightening talent into this thing, both on a regular and a chance basis. In spite of that, the leader of the jam, who is the lead singer from the rock/pop cover band, makes sure that everybody, regardless of talent or experience level, gets a chance to play or sing, if they choose to. She's a very gracious and open host. This thing makes Monday's extremely difficult for me, however. I have a day job as well. http://www.myspace.com/cysopenjam [/quote'] m-theory....Great respect on the guitar tone...you diffidently back up what you say here....awesome music, great bands that your apart of...thx for sharing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-theory Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Thanks, jazzric, but I'm just a guy that loves music and has played around for many years, that has somehow found a way to work with some real talented players. I like being challenged and pushed hard by those around me, because if I don't have that, I can get complacent and stop progressing. I told myself long ago that I never wanted to reach a point where I wasn't constantly improving my playing. I don't ever want to reach a point where I feel as though I'm as good as I need to get, and thankfully, there are countless vastly better musicians in my area to keep me honest and humble! As for the tone, it's always a work in progress, of course. I FINALLY figured out about 6 years ago that I should forget about trying to sound like everybody else and just develop my own tone. I sold or parked all of the pedals and rack gear that I'd been using, had a custom amp built, and have been fine tuning my tone ever since. I don't care for much in terms of effects, and have become a bit anally obsessed with building all of my own stuff. The things I use regularly are an overdriven tube amp with old school Marshall voicing, and a few different boosts (specifically, an "overdrive," a "distortion," and a "boost," all of which I set up to heavily push the front of the amp. I don't use dirt boxes specifically for the dirt tone. It's the additional amp gain that I'm after. On those blues band recordings, I was using a recently-built custom amp that I'd only been using for about 6 months. Without me realizing at the time what was going on, the amp had developed a gassy output tube, and I can't stand those recordings because of it. I just cringe whenever I hear them Live and learn...that amp chews through output tubes every 6 months of use, like clockwork. After that, I was able to hear when it was time to replace them. Hopefully, some of the comments that I make can help someone shape their own tone, without wasting nearly the time or money that I did over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaaarky21 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 And' date=' of course, you're painting some rather impressively built custom shop amps with that statement.[/quote'] I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but is it always about build quality with you? How about tone? :D And even when it comes to build quality, I'm not really that swayed by hand wiring. Have you never seen a broken or questionable solder joint in something hand wired? Automated PCB manufacturing tends to be very precise, consistent and reliable. I'm not saying that a lot of PCB-based amp don't make their way in for repairs, but what I am saying is that the issue isn't necessarily hand-wired vs. non-hand-wired. Just my opinion I suppose. Blast away. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-theory Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but is it always about build quality with you? How about tone? How about it? What you got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I hope you don't take this the wrong way' date=' but is it always about build quality with you? How about tone? ;) And even when it comes to build quality, I'm not really that swayed by hand wiring. Have you never seen a broken or questionable solder joint in something hand wired? Automated PCB manufacturing tends to be very precise, consistent and reliable. I'm not saying that a lot of PCB-based amp don't make their way in for repairs, but what I [i']am[/i] saying is that the issue isn't necessarily hand-wired vs. non-hand-wired. Just my opinion I suppose. Blast away. ;-) I'm still out on the practice of tube sockets mounted upside down on a PCB. The constant heat has to affect the PCB more than a phenolic socket mounted to a metal chassis. The new boards may last forever and I'm sure I'll eventually find out since I'm a new owner of a modeling amp with 2 6L6's and a 12AX7 mounted that way. I hope that I don't eventually see burned areas on my PCB. Considering that high watt power resistors are notorious for burning ciruit boards, as well as high power hybrid IC's that turn the RoHS solder to dust. Maybe tubes don't get that hot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaaarky21 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 How about it? What you got? Whatever sounds good. ;-) So arrogant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaaarky21 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I'm still out on the practice of tube sockets mounted upside down on a PCB. The constant heat has to affect the PCB more than a phenolic socket mounted to a metal chassis. The new boards may last forever and I'm sure I'll eventually find out since I'm a new owner of a modeling amp with 2 6L6's and a 12AX7 mounted that way. I hope that I don't eventually see burned areas on my PCB. Considering that high watt power resistors are notorious for burning ciruit boards' date=' as well as high power hybrid IC's that turn the RoHS solder to dust. Maybe tubes don't get that hot...[/quote'] Heh. You might be right. I would expect to see RoHS components everywhere now but I suppose there isn't as much mass on a PCB to dissipate heat, as opposed to big chunky turrets on a turret board for example. Does make me wonder about temperature readings though. Tubes get pretty hot but how much heat makes its way from the tube, through the socket and onto the circuit board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-theory Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Whatever sounds good. ;-) So arrogant... Wow. Is it difficult for you to accept that others may have a different opinion than yours, and if so, who's the arrogant one? Look, I've got kids, including a 23 year old that put us through absolute hell on earth. I'm pretty far from "arrogant" at this point. I'm an opinionated SOB, and I don't have any problem at all sharing my opinions on any given subject, but I'm not "arrogant," in spite of how you may view me. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a very late bloomer with regard to many things, including that ever-elusive, entirely subjective, uber-mysterious thing called "tone." I've been playing guitar for over 30 years, and have played live for 25 of those, but it's really just been in the past 6-7 years that I've really started to finally dial in on what I personally like to hear. I've never professed to know everything there is to know about tone or guitar. Both remain elusive enigmas to me, but I am committed to being an eternal student. I never want to reach a point in my life where I become stagnant or satisfied to the point that I cannot grow any further. I find it sad when a musician reaches that point, frankly, and it happens far too often with some very talented people. I do everything that I can think of to hone my skills and fine tune my tone, so that I am truly inspired whenever I hold an instrument. That's really what it's all about, to me. Because I'm a student, and am constantly searching for new paths that I haven't examined before, I visit these forums, to share ideas. If I can offer somebody something that they find useful for themselves, I'm honored to do so. As I said, I've been at this for quite some time, so it's quite probable that I've encountered a thing or two that may be of use to somebody who's at a different stage of the journey. If I'd have had someone guiding me many year ago, I would've been much further along than I am right now, without question. So much of this is about tone, and how we each perceive it. If we're not inspired to the depths of our soul by the tones that we produce, our creativity is stifled, and our passion wanes. So, I toss out whatever tidbits I've found that work for ME. I don't expect everybody to accept everything that I say, because, after all, we're talking about an entirely subjective subject here. What I think sounds like crap might very well be what the next guy thinks is nirvana (no band name pun intended). I'm only trying to help out in any small way that I can. I'm not trying to create enemies of those who're unable to see the grand picture. And frankly, I don't judge you for being that person. This is where you're at in your life at this moment, and that's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with what you've felt about what I've said, nor in what you've said about what I've said. It is what it is. I just don't want to leave you with the impression that I'm something that I'm not. There are others on this board who will attest to the fact that I'm here (meaning, in this life, not just on this board) to help others, in any way that I can. I don't contribute here solely to boost my flailing ego. I have more work in the field of music than I can keep up with, believe me, and I don't need an anonymous internet message board to keep me afloat. I only frequent this place because the people here have been kind to me, as I've sorted out issues with my lowly Valve Jrs, and I've found that there are times when I may be able to offer some guidance to some with lesser experience than myself. Please bear this in mind when you feel as though I'm coming off as "arrogant." Trust me, I'm quite far from it. I'm actually a very humble person in real life. I'm about as real a person as you could meet, believe it or not. Now, as for the specifics of hand wired vs. PCB amps, the jury has been out on that for decades. The simple fact is, handwired amps are more reliable and hold their value much better than PCB. That's not even debatable, I'm afraid. That's not to say that there aren't PCB amps that sound fantastic. But, to be honest, the ratio of "fantastic" to "craptastic" is shamefully small in comparison to handwire amps. Much of this is due to the very nature of the builds themselves, and I'm not speaking of the actual board construction here. I'm referring to the fact that PCB amps tend to be machine produced, and there isn't much attention paid to the actual workings of tubes, whereas handwired amps require "hand on," which means that great attention to the care and feeding of those all-important tubes is tantamount. Component selection is critical, believe it or not, and to be blunt, PCB built amps simply don't tend to adhere to this. They plop whatever components "engineer x" decides should be on the board, and that's that. Never mind whether or not it's the components that the tubes can play happily with. It doesn't matter. What matter is to get as many of those amps out the door as possible, as quickly as possible. Now, I'll gladly admit that there are times when this can and in fact, does work. But, I will absolutely, positively guarantee you that it doesn't happen NEARLY as often as it does when somebody with HANDS is carefully selecting component values, to suit the needs of those tubes. I've seen this magic firsthand myself, as I've worked alongside a 35+ year amp tech, who happens to be a good friend of mine. He's a horse whisperer with tube amps, and I have been nothing short of blown away at what he's been able to do while I've watched and listened. Trust me, if you spent as many hours with the guy as I have, you'd feel the same way. Now, whether that means anything to you or not at this stage of your journey doesn't matter at all. I realize that. But, it MIGHT matter to SOMEBODY, would you agree? THAT is why I post comments here. Not necessarily for YOU, but for SOMEBODY. Somebody who will benefit in some minute way from some minute thing that I say. I'm not here to change the world, create an impression of me that doesn't exist otherwise, or least of all, create enemies. I'm only here to offer whatever tiny fragments of "wisdom" that I can. I don't toss words around just for the sake of tossing words around. Whatever I post here is based upon what I've personally learned myself. If you don't agree, that's fine. But please, don't try to start a flame war over a misinterpretation. I'm not your enemy, and refuse to play that game. We should try to behave as adults around here, for the benefit of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman345 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 To further add to the fray, my tech told me that Reinhold Bogner uses Printed Circuit Boards in his amps. Although I know diddly about the subject, here is a link to an article written by Andy Marshall, the president & CEO of THD Electronics, and a colleague/personal friend of Bogner's: http://www.bogneramplification.com/customshop/Pcboard.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlagJones Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 To further add to the fray' date=' my tech told me that Reinhold Bogner uses Printed Circuit Boards in his amps. Although I know diddly about the subject, here is a link to an article written by Andy Marshall, the president & CEO of THD Electronics, and a colleague/personal friend of Bogner's: http://www.bogneramplification.com/customshop/Pcboard.php [/quote'] I don't think this is any different that what I think M-theory has always maintained that PCB amps are fine when done right with proper design. Bogner takes the time to make sure the design is proper and the right components are being used. They are making PCB amps the right way where most companies are not. the article indicates to me that Bogner is maximizing the strengths of PCB, mainly consistency, and maintaning the intregity of the amp and tone. Many companies only maximize the cost savings and ease of mass production. Two different philosophies on how to use PCB it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Because I'm a student, and am constantly searching for new paths that I haven't examined before, I visit these forums, to share ideas. If I can offer somebody something that they find useful for themselves, I'm honored to do so. As I said, I've been at this for quite some time, so it's quite probable that I've encountered a thing or two that may be of use to somebody who's at a different stage of the journey. I ran a thread back in January asking if I should move up from my VJr to a Blues Jr or wait to try a VSr. m-theory took time to ponder some of my options and offer his thoughts. I think it was his lamenting that his kid still had his Blues Jr. and how great an amp it was that helped me pull the trigger on the BJr. Got a good deal on a new BJr and have been very happy with it, and glad I didn't wait for the VSr which I suspected would not come out in February. So I am one of many newbies who appreciate those with more experience sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaaarky21 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 That was quite a nice response, M-Theory. Wow. Is it difficult for you to accept that others may have a different opinion than yours' date=' and if so, who's the arrogant one?[/quote']I'm really not trying to start trouble but I feel like there is a lot of undue snobery sometimes. From all of your posts, I take it that you love to tinker and experiment and I can relate. I've tweaked nearly every one of my pedals and even designed and built pedals from scratch. My friends at work used to call me The Pedaler for swapping out pedals all the time, looking for the "best" one. But your comment about different opinions is the key - to each their own. Read on... That's not to say that there aren't PCB amps that sound fantastic. But' date=' to be honest, the ratio of "fantastic" to "craptastic" is shamefully small in comparison to handwire amps.[/quote'] More than anything, I was just saying that when it comes to evaluating a piece of equipment, people should use a critical eye. The fact that something is hand wired shouldn't save it from the chopping block. I would guess that 99.9% of craptastic amps happen to use PCB's (because they are cheaper to produce) but that doesn't mean that PCB's are inherently bad. There is no reason that a well designed circuit on a well made printed circuit board is automatically at a disadvantage. Reliability is a concern (I won't buy something that is notorious for failing) but tone is paramount. Or at least that's my "differing opinion." :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 PCBs are everywhere these days and work fine in a multitude of designs. It's too expensive to compete using hand wired components when your competitors are plugging in their components using a robot. My issue with PCBs in guitar amps is NO FAN! My Vox AD50VT is a closed back unit and it has a small fan to exhaust heat. I guess my Peavey Vypypr doesn't need one, since it is an open back unit. I use it on an amp stand that tilts it back about 20 degrees. That's great for sound direction and control viewing, but I wonder how much more heat accumulates in a 3 hour gig when it's tilted? The machines that I service are production Xerographic printers that are about 20-25 feet long and contain 20-30 boards packed with LSI chips and drivers. There are fans everywhere and failures are infrequent. I have no problem with PCBs that are cooled, but I do fear the heat in a small box with no fan. Think about what happens when the CPU fan fails in your hme computer. But then, amps nowadays have to compete at a price point that precludes the use of additional components and custom shop attention. They are not destined to be "Vintage amps", but rather they are throwaway amps that have a pre-determined life span. When they break, there will be a new line that has more bells and whistles that catch our attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzric Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Wow. Is it difficult for you to accept that others may have a different opinion than yours' date=' and if so, who's the arrogant one? Look, I've got kids, including a 23 year old that put us through absolute hell on earth. I'm pretty far from "arrogant" at this point. I'm an opinionated SOB, and I don't have any problem at all sharing my opinions on any given subject, but I'm not "arrogant," in spite of how you may view me. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a very late bloomer with regard to many things, including that ever-elusive, entirely subjective, uber-mysterious thing called "tone." I've been playing guitar for over 30 years, and have played live for 25 of those, but it's really just been in the past 6-7 years that I've really started to finally dial in on what I personally like to hear. I've never professed to know everything there is to know about tone or guitar. Both remain elusive enigmas to me, but I am committed to being an eternal student. I never want to reach a point in my life where I become stagnant or satisfied to the point that I cannot grow any further. I find it sad when a musician reaches that point, frankly, and it happens far too often with some very talented people. I do everything that I can think of to hone my skills and fine tune my tone, so that I am truly inspired whenever I hold an instrument. That's really what it's all about, to me. Because I'm a student, and am constantly searching for new paths that I haven't examined before, I visit these forums, to share ideas. If I can offer somebody something that they find useful for themselves, I'm honored to do so. As I said, I've been at this for quite some time, so it's quite probable that I've encountered a thing or two that may be of use to somebody who's at a different stage of the journey. If I'd have had someone guiding me many year ago, I would've been much further along than I am right now, without question. So much of this is about tone, and how we each perceive it. If we're not inspired to the depths of our soul by the tones that we produce, our creativity is stifled, and our passion wanes. So, I toss out whatever tidbits I've found that work for ME. I don't expect everybody to accept everything that I say, because, after all, we're talking about an entirely subjective subject here. What I think sounds like crap might very well be what the next guy thinks is nirvana (no band name pun intended). I'm only trying to help out in any small way that I can. I'm not trying to create enemies of those who're unable to see the grand picture. And frankly, I don't judge you for being that person. This is where you're at in your life at this moment, and that's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with what you've felt about what I've said, nor in what you've said about what I've said. It is what it is. I just don't want to leave you with the impression that I'm something that I'm not. There are others on this board who will attest to the fact that I'm here (meaning, in this life, not just on this board) to help others, in any way that I can. I don't contribute here solely to boost my flailing ego. I have more work in the field of music than I can keep up with, believe me, and I don't need an anonymous internet message board to keep me afloat. I only frequent this place because the people here have been kind to me, as I've sorted out issues with my lowly Valve Jrs, and I've found that there are times when I may be able to offer some guidance to some with lesser experience than myself. Please bear this in mind when you feel as though I'm coming off as "arrogant." Trust me, I'm quite far from it. I'm actually a very humble person in real life. I'm about as real a person as you could meet, believe it or not. Now, as for the specifics of hand wired vs. PCB amps, the jury has been out on that for decades. The simple fact is, handwired amps are more reliable and hold their value much better than PCB. That's not even debatable, I'm afraid. That's not to say that there aren't PCB amps that sound fantastic. But, to be honest, the ratio of "fantastic" to "craptastic" is shamefully small in comparison to handwire amps. Much of this is due to the very nature of the builds themselves, and I'm not speaking of the actual board construction here. I'm referring to the fact that PCB amps tend to be machine produced, and there isn't much attention paid to the actual workings of tubes, whereas handwired amps require "hand on," which means that great attention to the care and feeding of those all-important tubes is tantamount. Component selection is critical, believe it or not, and to be blunt, PCB built amps simply don't tend to adhere to this. They plop whatever components "engineer x" decides should be on the board, and that's that. Never mind whether or not it's the components that the tubes can play happily with. It doesn't matter. What matter is to get as many of those amps out the door as possible, as quickly as possible. Now, I'll gladly admit that there are times when this can and in fact, does work. But, I will absolutely, positively guarantee you that it doesn't happen NEARLY as often as it does when somebody with HANDS is carefully selecting component values, to suit the needs of those tubes. I've seen this magic firsthand myself, as I've worked alongside a 35+ year amp tech, who happens to be a good friend of mine. He's a horse whisperer with tube amps, and I have been nothing short of blown away at what he's been able to do while I've watched and listened. Trust me, if you spent as many hours with the guy as I have, you'd feel the same way. Now, whether that means anything to you or not at this stage of your journey doesn't matter at all. I realize that. But, it MIGHT matter to SOMEBODY, would you agree? THAT is why I post comments here. Not necessarily for YOU, but for SOMEBODY. Somebody who will benefit in some minute way from some minute thing that I say. I'm not here to change the world, create an impression of me that doesn't exist otherwise, or least of all, create enemies. I'm only here to offer whatever tiny fragments of "wisdom" that I can. I don't toss words around just for the sake of tossing words around. Whatever I post here is based upon what I've personally learned myself. If you don't agree, that's fine. But please, don't try to start a flame war over a misinterpretation. I'm not your enemy, and refuse to play that game. We should try to behave as adults around here, for the benefit of all. [/quote'] m-theory.... just so you know..I appreciate everything you share here and thanks for your time and opinions...I'm new here but not new to forums and how they work...and sometimes you know, its like this... but I can see that you hold your own... Thx again bro.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe2Grind123 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-theory Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 m-theory....just so you know..I appreciate everything you share here and thanks for your time and opinions...I'm new here but not new to forums and how they work...and sometimes you know, its like this... but I can see that you hold your own... Thx again bro.. Thanks, I appreciate that. I know how they work as well, and some are clearly worse than others for the ruffled feathers and subsequent ill-advised comments. One of the things I've enjoyed about this particular site is that, in the time that I've been around here, I've seen very little of that type of behavior. For the most part, folks around here behave as adults, and respect one another, even through minor differences of opinion. It's very rare that anyone feels the need to make inflammatory statements around here, so I take it with a grain of salt when I see it. Not everyone is at the same stage, nor necessarily ever will be. Opinions change with experience, for sure. I will undoubtedly have formed some different opinions on a subject or two by a year from now, just as I have throughout my life. It's all about the growth, or the "journey, not the destination." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusOfSuburbia Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 One of the things I've enjoyed about this particular site is that' date=' in the time that I've been around here, I've seen very little of that type of behavior. For the most part, folks around here behave as adults, and respect one another, even through minor differences of opinion. [/quote'] I agree, everyone here is very kewl & I appreciate ALL the opinions, even ones I don't agree with because you never know when you might benefit from that "other" opinion. And you give some great advice M-theory!!! peace, JoS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman345 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 M-Theory - really dug the blues stuff. I love blues and have done a few Blues Festivals here (3-piece) - our drummer is 60 and our bass player is legally (almost 100%) blind and an Albino black man to boot. He's 58 & He knows Blues I'm 57 so they call me the kid. I grew up in Northern Michigan and came here to Florida where blues was "lacking"... when I met the bass player a few years ago we talked and I asked him what his favorite style of music was - he replied without hesitation CHICAGO STYLE BLUES - I knew he was "my guy"! Hey guys, I know it's a little off topic here, but I recently read a really good novel called "Crossroad Blues" by Ace Atkins. The main character is a former New Orleans Saints football star, Nick Travers, who is now a blues history prof at Tulane University. He ends up in a quest much like that for the Holy Grail, investigating the murder of Delta blues pioneer Robert Johnson. In his travels, he meets an albino black man who says he was with Johnson at the time of his murder and claims to be in possession of the legendary recordings from Johnson's "9 lost sessions". Here is a link if you want to check it out: www.amazon.com/Crossroad-Blues-Nick-Travers-Mystery/dp/0312192541 Cheers, Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.