What are Gibson scared of? (Dot related)

[twodice]

Epiphone Dot’s are “copies” of the Gibson 335, yeh?

 

Why cant the Epiphone Dot have neck binding and have a proper 60’s slim neck profile?

 

Would that be too much or “too good” for an Epiphone Gibson Copy?

 

I think if they did, then the Dot would be just as good as the 335 (looks and feel anyways), do Gibson want to keep the “ideal” guitar a Gibson and the “great but could be better” guitar an Epiphone?

[clarkuss]

I think to a large extent you've answered your own question.

[twodice]

I think to a large extent you've answered your own question.

 

exactly!

[charlie brown]

Maybe?! I've often lamented the fact that the G-400 doesn't have neck binding, either...except a few of the

"Classic" or faded versions, did seem to come with and without binding...depending on what day it was or

factory it came from. ;>b But yeah, neck binding (and a "block inlays" option) would be great, on a Dot.

I don't (seriously) think it would cause any major dip in sales, for Gibson 335's...there will always be those

that want ONLY a Gibson..."Good Enough," or not! ;>)

 

CB

[Axe2Grind123]

It's a hell of a price jump from 'Dot' to '335', has to be justified some way . . . = /

[JefferySmith]

Epiphone Dot’s are “copies” of the Gibson 335' date=' yeh?

 

Why cant the Epiphone Dot have neck binding and have a proper 60’s slim neck profile?

 

Would that be too much or “too good” for an Epiphone Gibson Copy?

 

I think if they did, then the Dot would be just as good as the 335 (looks and feel anyways), do Gibson want to keep the “ideal” guitar a Gibson and the “great but could be better” guitar an Epiphone?

[/quote']

 

The answer - buy a Sheraton for that neck.

[fenrirlupus]

Epiphone Dot’s are “copies” of the Gibson 335' date=' yeh?

 

Why cant the Epiphone Dot have neck binding and have a proper 60’s slim neck profile?

 

Would that be too much or “too good” for an Epiphone Gibson Copy?

 

I think if they did, then the Dot would be just as good as the 335 (looks and feel anyways), do Gibson want to keep the “ideal” guitar a Gibson and the “great but could be better” guitar an Epiphone?

[/quote']

50's neck profile > 60's neck profile

you fail.

i am extremely terrified of people with small hands.

[fenrirlupus]

 

The answer - buy a Sheraton for that neck.

sheraton should have a fat neck and dot thin...

[twodice]

sheraton should have a fat neck and dot thin...

 

i own a sheraton and a dot.

 

sheraton is not that thin btw, well compared to my elitist Valensi Riviera, which has a proper 60's neck. my dot studio is actually nearer to the 60s neck.

 

tbh i love my dot, its my best guitar after my Riviera.

 

the neck on the dot is especially good as it feels the same all the way up and down the neck.

 

suppose it all comes down to the debate of which neck size you prefere?

[clarkuss]

I think part of it is what you're used to. I played a casino for so long that when i got my dot deluxe i didn't like the neck but then got used to it. My friend prefers bigger necks because he had an SG but now he's always raving about how nice and easy the casino is to play. I personally find it much easier to play lead in a bigger neck and tend to play more rythm on a smaller neck which seems to make sense to me.

[Red 333]

Epiphone Dot’s are “copies” of the Gibson 335' date=' yeh?

 

Why cant the Epiphone Dot have neck binding and have a proper 60’s slim neck profile?

 

Would that be too much or “too good” for an Epiphone Gibson Copy?

 

I think if they did, then the Dot would be just as good as the 335 (looks and feel anyways), do Gibson want to keep the “ideal” guitar a Gibson and the “great but could be better” guitar an Epiphone?

[/quote']

 

Dots are modeled after the ES 335 as it first introduced in early 1958. It had no neck binding then (and would not until later in the year), and the necks were rounder, as the '60s neck profile had yet to be introduced. In that respect, the Dot is closer cosmetically to the historic reissue Gibson 335s than the regular ones.

 

Neck binding looks nice, and is found on many Epis, but it doesn't contribute much to the "feel" of an instrument. Fret-end binding (which is what most of today's, non-historic reissue Gibson's ES 335s have) does. Fret end binding is binding that outlines the fretboard and covers the fret ends, so it protects the fingers from snagging on a sharp end, like if the fret board shrinks due to humidity or age. It's also very expensive, as applying it a very labor-intensive process and requires a skilled craftsperson.

 

Recently, fret-end binding has only been provided by Epiphone on its highest-end guitars, like the Elitist Broadway and Byrdland, the Lennon Casinos, and some others. If you want a Dot with a bound neck, seek out an Elitist Dot. they are about two or three times the price of a standard Dot, but well worth it.

 

By the way, the big construction detail (there are many differences in material) that makes an Epiphone Dot different from a Gibson ES 335 is that no kerfing (slotted, bent strips of wood) is used to join the top, bottom, and sides. Korean made Epi Dots have tops, sides, and bottoms that are simply glued together. A Gibson or Elitist Dot uses kefing (like you'd find in an acoustic guitar) to increase the ablity of the pieces of the body to resonate together and transmit string energy. I don't remember if they started using kerfing when moved manufacturing to China, but I seem to recall I saw Chinese Casinos with it. I don't know about the Sheratons (they have a nice slim neck and neck binding, if you want it, by the way).

 

Anyway, your Epi Dot is a fine guitar as is. But even if it did have bound frets, kefing etc., it would never end up performing like a Gibson as long as Epi has to keep them selling for under $1200 (like an Elitist, which is VERY close in performance to a Gibby), let alone $400. They simply can't afford the quality of materials and craftsmanship.

 

Red 333

 

Gibson ES 335

Gibson ES 333

Gibson ES 339

Epiphone Elitist Dot

Epiphone Dot Deluxe

[twodice]

I think part of it is what you're used to. I played a casino for so long that when i got my dot deluxe i didn't like the neck but then got used to it. My friend prefers bigger necks because he had an SG but now he's always raving about how nice and easy the casino is to play. I personally find it much easier to play lead in a bigger neck and tend to play more rythm on a smaller neck which seems to make sense to me.

 

yeh my first guitar was my dot, so that kinda set the standard, then i got my fender mustang, which is completely defferent, just get used to them both.

[charlie brown]

As is "human nature," we want it ALL, for as little expenditure, as possible! LOL!

Bottom line...if you want Gibson quality and appointments, (save more/longer) and...buy a Gibson!

But, an "Elitist," is very close, for sure!

 

CB

[twodice]

As is "human nature' date='" we want it ALL, for as little expenditure, as possible! LOL!

Bottom line...if you want Gibson quality and appointments, (save more/longer) and...buy a Gibson!

But, an "Elitist," is very close, for sure!

 

CB[/quote']

 

yeh very true about the elitists!!! the quality of my Elitist Valensi Riviera is unreal!!

 

the quality of my dot (same year, 2005, diff factory obv) is also very very good. ive read the thread about how people think the qualilty of Epiphone guitars may be going downhill.

 

my Dot feels solid and is perfect for what it is IMO.

[charlie brown]

I'd LOVE to see the numbers! The only thing I can think of, that would have prompted the

removal of the "Elitist" line, is that it was costing too much, to make them, compared to what

their profit margin was allowing. It can't really be that they were too good, and "competition"

to the Higher end Gibson (or even the middle of the road versions), 'cause...Gibson made money

either way. Maybe just not enough profit, off the "Elitist?!" But I, for one, surely do miss those

guitars, and that "option!" Frankly, I'd love to see ALL Epiphones, at that level of

quality, even if they were a bit higher in price. Get that Epiphone "pride" back, you know!

 

CB

[BlueLesPaul2006]

It's a hell of a price jump from 'Dot' to '335'' date=' has to be justified some way . . . = /[/quote']

 

BS there is nothing justified about Gibson charging thousands for their guitars when Epiphones are sold for a fraction and can give killer tones.

[animalfarm]

 

BS there is nothing justified about Gibson charging thousands for their guitars when Epiphones are sold for a fraction and can give killer tones.

 

Maybe a slight re-phrase: "There is nothing justified about PAYING Gibson thousands when Epiphones

are sold for a fraction and can give killer tones".

 

I have owned Gibson Les Pauls, LOVE them. Will buy another if I can catch the proverbial

"good deal", will be USED, of course. Out-of-the-box NEW is a bit too rich for my blood nowdays.

When I was late teens/early 20s, I took out bank loans to buy my gibsons. For now, I have been

purchasing EPIs, and I think they are EXCELLENT guitars, just need a little help in the pickup and

tuner department, called MODS!

My EPI LP Studio, stock pups sound horrible in IT, but great in my LP Classic. I upgraded tuners and pups

in the Studio, now sounds GREAT. EVENTUALLY will dream about Burstbuckers in both, but in due time.

 

Total investment in my EPI Studio, approx. $400.00 (with upgrades). GIBSON LP Studio Vintage Mahogany

like mine = $999.00. "Higher" grade models of Gibson LP Studio are $1199.00 and $1319.00.

[HarpBoy]

 

By the way' date=' the big [i']construction[/i] detail (there are many differences in material) that makes an Epiphone Dot different from a Gibson ES 335 is that no kerfing (slotted, bent strips of wood) is used to join the top, bottom, and sides. Korean made Epi Dots have tops, sides, and bottoms that are simply glued together. A Gibson or Elitist Dot uses kefing (like you'd find in an acoustic guitar) to increase the ablity of the pieces of the body to resonate together and transmit string energy. I don't remember if they started using kerfing when moved manufacturing to China, but I seem to recall I saw Chinese Casinos with it. I don't know about the Sheratons (they have a nice slim neck and neck binding, if you want it, by the way).

 

 

This statement puzzled me; I just checked my '08 MIK Riviera and it has kerfing. Also has a beautiful, slim neck. I presume this is a "60s" style, although I'm far from an expert on historic Gibsons.

 

Cheers