A.S.A.P is this fake or original!

[mgrmatt]

I don't have an Epi Les Paul......... And I don't have any images of the routing on my Gibby 80 Les Paul Custom.... At this point I don't procure Chinese made guitars.

 

If purchased your guitar through MF' date=' you have nothing to worry about in regards to authenticity.[/quote']

 

At this point if you want peace of mind when buying an Epi solidbody you are better off to spend the $$ with a well known retailer or dealer. I wonder how hard it is for Gibson/Epi to go after and get something done to the people selling these fakes?

 

 

mgm

[rockstar232007]

That is a real Epiphone LP, it is just of really poor quality (as are most Epis after 1990), because, unfortunately, Gibson's/Epiphone's QA has gone WAY down, in recent years, to the point that, yes their guitars look good, but are not inspected (for production flaws) very well. But it is real.

[bvarsel]

Sorry rockstar but I think me and...well just about everyone else here is going to disagree about the fact this is not a knock-off. Say what you want about post 1990 quality but the fact is these are built by Spec's & Prints. The pot locations are one of the tell-tale signs of fakes v reals. I don't believe Epiphone would put out a second and not call it such. You can buy "B" stock guitars, axes that have failed quality control for one reason or another, so why put out a fiddle that failed and not stamp it as such. Which by the way all "B" stocks are stamped on the back.

[scantron]

Fake or not, it's probably still the same quality as any Epi LP. It's all the same stuff made in the same factories but with different "brands" on the headstock. Looks like any $199-$250 LP copy to me, Epi or not...

[arerife]

Fake or not' date=' it's probably still the same quality as any Epi LP. It's all the same stuff made in the same factories but with different "brands" on the headstock. Looks like any $199-$250 LP copy to me, Epi or not...[/quote']

 

same? hurm.i don't think so.

of course you got as what you paid.

[RobinTheHood]

Fake or not' date=' it's probably still the same quality as any Epi LP. It's all the same stuff made in the same factories but with different "brands" on the headstock.[/quote']

 

Sorry, but the 80's & 90's are over. That guitar says EE, and The Qingdao factory is Epiphone only.

 

Looks like any $199-$250 LP copy to me' date=' Epi or not...[/quote']

 

Used, maybe...

[AlanH]

I can't remember Arerife saying exactly where he bought this LP from. Was it mail ordered directly from China? Looking at Gibson.com the only Gibson dealers in Asia are in Japan.

 

We tend to see a lot of Les Pauls which are almost identical to the Epis bought through 'official channels' but which have a variety of unnacceptable flaws such as 'off angle' grovers or badly routed control cavities leading to incorrectly positioned knobs etc.

 

I'm presuming that Epi can only sell guitars with minor flaws as factory seconds. However, would a Chinese guitar factory 'waste' a guitar that had been picked up at QC as being routed so far off that it could not be sold as a second? No way! In a third world country, that goes against the grain. Perhaps these guitars end up going through the back door route to Chinese retailers who then sell them over the net.

 

I'd really be interested to see what Epiphone say about these Les Pauls we keep seeing. Perhaps our moderators could seek the opinions of their contacts at Epiphone. Maybe it's not in Epiphone's best interests to tell us exactly which Chinese guitar factory these LPs come from. In fact, I'd be interested to know just how many Chinese guitar factories there actually are.

 

Last point- If I was going to make a guitar of the level of build standard we are seeing here to sell as a fake, then I'd be putting 'Gibson' on the headstock.

[rockstar232007]

Sorry rockstar but I think me and...well just about everyone else here is going to disagree about the fact this is not a knock-off. Say what you want about post 1990 quality but the fact is these are built by Spec's & Prints. The pot locations are one of the tell-tale signs of fakes v reals. I don't believe Epiphone would put out a second and not call it such. You can buy "B" stock guitars' date=' axes that have failed quality control for one reason or another, so why put out a fiddle that failed and not stamp it as such. Which by the way all "B" stocks are stamped on the back. [/quote']Believe me, I've owned a few Epi LPs, that I purchased NEW, and they all had, at least 7 things "wrong" with them, that shows that there is almost no attention paid to detail.

 

And as for "Specs & Prints"? The main goal is to get the overall "look" of a Gibson (not necessarily the feel/sound) and they have a problem doing that!

Here is a list of things, that I've compiled of the "Negative Specs" of Epi LPs

 

Improper sized binding (too thin)

Improperly carved tops (too round)

Improper body routs (off center control cavity routs)

Improper placement of bridge/tailpiece (distance from bridge P/U mounting ring, and from tailpiece to bridge, or scale-length)

Improper placement of control pot holes

 

The above list is compiled of details found on several new Epi LPs that I have owned over the past couple of years.

 

Now I'm not saying that Epi LPs are bad. My point is, you can't look at a "Epi" guitar, and automatically pass it off as a "fake", without considering that they (unlike most Gibson's), are not all created equal, visually.

 

Here's something to think about. Which one of these looks fake?

[RotcanX]

No matter what you feel regarding Epiphone QC, they at least use genuine Korean Grover tuners. The ones on this example are bogus.

 

 

Those washers are HUGE. Compare them to the tuner washers on any genuine Epi. Hence, it's a counterfeit.

[Steven Lister]

99% chance it was made in Epiphone's factory. Counterfeiters don't brand low cost brands. Why make $50 when on the same guitar body you can brand Gibson and make $500. If you're a thief (counterfeiter) then you think like a thief and you take the most $$ you can every chance you can.

 

Tuner washers do not = tuners. The tuners look okay. In fact, the photo looks like each peg may have two washers (a small one and a larger one). Larger washers are used all the time to hide a mistake(s) in drilling holes. That was just one of several mistakes Epi workers made on this junker.

 

The real question is, "did Epi sell this out the front door -- or out the back door?"

Why doesn't Epi do something about Epiphone counterfeiters? Because there aren't any to do anything about..., and all the "fake criers" provide great cover for shoddy QC. Epi has a win/win going. Why mess with that?

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

[RotcanX]

99% chance it was made in Epiphone's factory. Counterfeiters don't brand low cost brands.

I used to think the same thing. What would be the point? Well' date=' the point is, these guys are throwing together cheap clones for $50 cost or so, then, rather than sell them to Epiphone for $100, they're selling them to eBay rubes for $400.

 

Understand the economics now?

 

It's a lot easier to make a Chinese copy of a Chinese guitar and get away with it than it is to make a Chinese copy of an American guitar and get away with it.

 

Another giveaway on this fake-ola, if you look closely, is the hole leading to the output jack. It looks as though they didn't even drill completely through. Also, if these were made at the Epiphone plant, that would imply they are cut on the same CNC machines, which makes it kind of hard to explain why the control cavity shape is so different from a genuine EE.

 

Bogus:

[img']http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/3488918846_cd43d27995_o.jpg[/img]

 

Bonafide:

 

Plus, I doubt one of those machines would do such a sloppy alignment job on the selector switch cavity.

 

One more thing: check the bridge and tailpiece. If this is truly a September 2007 EE, it'll have the locking bridge and tailpiece:

 

 

[rockstar232007]

I bought my '02 Epi LP Stndrd Plus, BRAND NEW from a local Marshall Music store, the control cavity looks just like the one that is supposed to be "fake", and as I said before, I have seen multiple, brand new models, with the same off-center selector switch route, some even worse than the one in question.

[Steven Lister]

I used to think the same thing. What would be the point? Well' date=' the point is, these guys are throwing together cheap clones [b']for $50 cost or so[/b], then, rather than sell them to Epiphone for $100, they're selling them to eBay rubes for $400.

 

Understand the economics now?

 

It's a lot easier to make a Chinese copy of a Chinese guitar and get away with it than it is to make a Chinese copy of an American guitar and get away with it.

 

Another giveaway on this fake-ola, if you look closely, is the hole leading to the output jack. It looks as though they didn't even drill completely through. Also, if these were made at the Epiphone plant, that would imply they are cut on the same CNC machines, which makes it kind of hard to explain why the control cavity shape is so different from a genuine EE.

 

***

 

One more thing: check the bridge and tailpiece. If this is truly a September 2007 EE, it'll have the locking bridge and tailpiece.

 

The economics are still not there. $50 simply will not cover materials/labor/production/advertising/shipping costs. And even if Asian-to-Asian is easier, then the pick would be top $$ Asian to kype and not some $400 Epi. The profit margins just aren't there.

 

CNC machines? Know how much a CNC machine capable of handling guitar size material stock costs? If the counterfeiters are using a CNC, then they are definitely running off Gibsons, Fenders, etc., so why bother to run a batch of cheapos?

 

And speaking on CNCs, set-up and operator competence controls the where, shape, how deep, etc. The computer maintians consistency, but it will cut anywhere, any shape you want. Odd shapes only mean that the set-up was not accurate to the company's design spec. Happens all the time in testing, or when the raw material doesn't jig correctly when the machine bites in for the cut. Why throw them out? They function okay, just look funny (and only to those who know what they are looking for). Mold a cover plate and sell 'em. Best way to keep costs down.

 

Proof? None. Only numbers, knowledge of production methods, a questioning nature..., and that sense that tells me when something smells fishy, it's b/c it is. And to my nose this whole "fake" Epi scenario business reeks fishyness.

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

[acewarslave]

steven the fake epi ace frehley i have look very nice,nicer than my legit one but as far as i know they do not produce ace frehley epis in the chinese plant...now if only i could get conformation of that fact..fact is my fakola doesnt even have dimazio pups witch it is suppose to have and the neck is crappy to,i think it has a bow in it..this thing is good for a wall hanger..

[Steven Lister]

steven the fake epi ace frehley i have look very nice' date='nicer than my legit one but as far as i know they do not produce ace frehley epis in the chinese plant...now if only i could get conformation of that fact..fact is my fakola doesnt even have dimazio pups witch it is suppose to have and the neck is crappy to,i think it has a bow in it..this thing is good for a wall hanger..'](*,)

One more time -- for all those who've missed it -- they're not fakes, they're back-door Epiphones.

Some QC rejects are sold by Epiphone (oh yes, I suspect even Epi rejects a few) to recyclers -- but the recyclers don't strip/destroy them, they re-outfit them (cheapo electronics) and sell them (ebay, etc.). Others are employee walk-aways. But they are all coming from Epiphone authorized factories.

 

They are not authorized by Epiphone for sale --- but they are not "fakes" made entirely by counterfeiters either -- they are just super-low quality Epiphone/3rds. As in finished/sold by some 3rd party.

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

[Goldie]

Those washers are HUGE. Compare them to the tuner washers on any genuine Epi. Hence' date=' it's a counterfeit.[/quote']

 

That statement doesn't wash. That's like saying, "Look how big that girls t*ts are. They must be fake.

 

One more time -- for all those who've missed it -- they're not fakes' date=' they're [u']back-door Epiphones[/u].

Some QC rejects are sold by Epiphone (oh yes, I suspect even Epi rejects a few) to recyclers -- but the recyclers don't strip/destroy them, they re-outfit them (cheapo electronics) and sell them (ebay, etc.). Others are employee walk-aways. But they are all coming from Epiphone authorized factories.

 

They are not authorized by Epiphone for sale --- but they are not "fakes" made entirely by counterfeiters either -- they are just super-low quality Epiphone/3rds. As in finished/sold by some 3rd party.

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

 

I agree with this, and I also think there is a huge amount of "counterfeit hysteria" going on. As soon as someone sees anything slightly less than perfect, they scream "FAKE!!!".

Anyone who has ever worked in a high production manufacturing situation knows that there are variations, no matter how sophisticated the tooling is.

[RotcanX]

 

The economics are still not there. $50 simply will not cover materials/labor/production/advertising/shipping costs. And even if Asian-to-Asian is easier' date=' then the pick would be top $$ Asian to kype and not some $400 Epi. The profit margins just aren't there.[/quote']

 

Advertising costs? What advertising costs? Epiphone pays those costs, man... these guys don't exactly take out full page spreads in Guitar Player.

 

Shipping costs? Last time I checked, it's the eBay buyer that pays this.

 

Maybe it would be wiser per guitar to copy some fancy Asian make, however the volume on Epis is huge. That alone makes it a good target.

 

Anyway, it's all moot. Unlike God, we can prove the existence of Epi fakes by... their existence. This isn't the first fake I've seen and it won't be the last.

[RotcanX]

One more time -- for all those who've missed it -- they're not fakes' date=' they're [u']back-door Epiphones[/u].

Some QC rejects are sold by Epiphone (oh yes, I suspect even Epi rejects a few) to recyclers -- but the recyclers don't strip/destroy them, they re-outfit them (cheapo electronics) and sell them (ebay, etc.). Others are employee walk-aways. But they are all coming from Epiphone authorized factories.

 

What's that... is that a Les Paul Standard in your pocket or are you just glad to see me? Kind of hard to imagine too many of these 'walking away' with employees. :-

 

Plus, with the level of concern that Epiphone/Gibson has demonstrated over these counterfeits, I would assume that any 'rejects' or '3rds' make a trip to the bandsaw before being passed on to any 'recyclers'.

 

It's not like it takes any great amount of money or knowledge to set up a guitarmaking sweat shop and start cranking out Epi clones. And yes, these shops won't have the fancy CNC machinery (which kind of explains the sloppy workmanship compared to the genuine article which are produced on automated machines), but with cheap labour and a few pin routers it's amazing what you can do. Making cruddy black-market ripoffs is what the Chinese are famous for.

[acewarslave]

the epi i bought was shipped supposedly direct from the factory as well this seems to be another way the fakers seem to suck people in btw..rotcanX..well said...

[bigneil]

FFFFFAAAAAKKKEEEEEEEEEE buy it if you want, but don't pay more than a few dollars for it!. with out even looking at the details i can see instantly that the cutaway is all wrong. FAKE!"!!!!!

[AlanH]

The culture in communist China would have little regard for protecting the integrity of the supply chain.

 

I still say this is either an EE back door 'second' or a one which has been legitimately sold by the EE factory direct to suppliers in China. You'd need a large factory rather than a back street sweat shop to produce something like this LP in quantities large enough for the ebay or amazon market. The Chinese suppliers such as MZonline and newbaby8888 sell hundreds of these LPs in the UK alone if you look at the numbers of feedback comments on ebay.

[HarpBoy]

However' date=' would a Chinese guitar factory 'waste' a guitar that had been picked up at QC as being routed so far off that it could not be sold as a second? No way! In a third world country, that goes against the grain. [/quote']

 

Um, China is a third world country? I don't think so. It has the fastest growing economy on the planet.

[kelv_w]

The messy wiring and the switch cavity looks dodgy to me. Here's mine bought from an authorised dealer.

 

 

[SlagJones]

One more time -- for all those who've missed it -- they're not fakes' date=' they're [u']back-door Epiphones[/u].

Some QC rejects are sold by Epiphone (oh yes, I suspect even Epi rejects a few) to recyclers -- but the recyclers don't strip/destroy them, they re-outfit them (cheapo electronics) and sell them (ebay, etc.). Others are employee walk-aways. But they are all coming from Epiphone authorized factories.

 

They are not authorized by Epiphone for sale --- but they are not "fakes" made entirely by counterfeiters either -- they are just super-low quality Epiphone/3rds. As in finished/sold by some 3rd party.

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

 

Cutting through the quibbling, it is not Epi factory 1st quality which I think is ultimately what is important to the OP. It is subpar for one reason or another and not top quality. Fake or Epi 3rd, I don't think I would want either, personally.

[eezapz2101]

 

I don't think it's harsh......... I wouldn't give $0.000001 for it...... counterfeiters won't get a single penny from me.

 

how can you tell a fake guitar from a non fake?

where do i buy my guitar then? ebay? guitarcenter? musicians friend? zzounds? where?