Figstrum Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 #-o I just got my Epi Lp Std from the shop with 2 Alpha push/pull pots on the tone knobs (coil tapping) , and new SD pups that I got for it. Sounds Great, BUT..... I noticed that when I coil tap ( pull ) the knobs, the volume drops slightly. Not very much. I was wondering if this was normal for the kind of set up, or is there a prob with the electronics??? Need your imput party people!!!!
Thermionik Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 If they really are coil-tapping (rather than coil splitting) the sound should get smaller - since you have reduced the number of coils in use. I suspect the guitar has coil-splitting - and you are hearing the difference between humbucker and single-coil in the two positions..... .....and single-coil sounds thinner and so slightly quieter. Either way - it's cool - listen to the tone change rather than the level change.
rockstar232007 Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 When you "tap" a humbucker, you cut the output essentially in half, in order to get the single coil sound, and in turn, the volume is also decreased. So there isn't anything wrong with the P/Us. Just adjust the amp volume, and you should be ok.
Dave Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Normal. A Strat or any other single coil guitar generally has lower outout that a humbucker equipped guitar, although I don't notice that so much on my P90 Goldtop. I guess the Goldtop has more coil windings than a standard single coil. Higher turn count=higher output
RotcanX Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Normal. A Strat or any other single coil guitar generally has lower outout that a humbucker equipped guitar' date=' although I don't notice that so much on my P90 Goldtop. I guess the Goldtop has more coil windings than a standard single coil. Higher turn count=higher output[/quote']Assuming the same magnet material, right, Dave?
Figstrum Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 Thanks 2 everyone for the replies. I called the tech this morning before reading the posts, he said that it was normal to have a decease in sound as you are going from a full sound humbucker to a single coil when you coil tap them. I guess is the price to pay for having that kind of set up, either way it sounds amazing. The SD hotrodded set is sweet sounding in this guitar. NOW..... Is there a way to boost it so there is no sound decease? ......................hmmmmm and the story continues....
Figstrum Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 arent coil tapping and splitting not the same? I have a small decrease in volume when splitting or tapping the pups. Here it is described that he drop is normal, but listening to other guitars, I dont hear the drop of volume in others. there has to be a way to even out the sound when splitting or tapping!!!!
Steven Lister Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 arent coil tapping and splitting not the same? No. But the effect you are trying to produce is. And to fuzz up the mix' date=' often the terms are not used correctly. Tapping is a process to isolate a % of coiled wire by breaking into the coil at a point less than 100% of its winding and inserting a new lead ("tap") at that point. Splitting is the process to divide the humbucker's 2 coils by inserting a new lead wire out at a point where each coil is isolated but keeping/using all 100% of each coil's winding. Since a new out is added (or tapped into) many mistakenly use/confuse the term tapping when they really mean splitting. BTW splitting does not reduce a humbuckers output by 50% as was stated earlier. Why? B/C the second coil of the 'bucker functions to cancel noise through reverse polarity. That hum cancelling coil does not add to the output signal. Your volume fix?... FREE!... turn it up (amp, or guitar pot) and play on. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"
Figstrum Posted May 6, 2009 Author Posted May 6, 2009 No. But the effect you are trying to produce is. And to fuzz up the mix' date=' often the terms are not used correctly. Tapping is a process to isolate a % of coiled wire by breaking into the coil at a point less than 100% of its winding and inserting a new lead ("tap") at that point. Splitting is the process to divide the humbucker's 2 coils by inserting a new lead wire out at a point where each coil is isolated but keeping/using all 100% of each coil's winding. Since a new out is added (or tapped into) many mistakenly use/confuse the term tapping when they really mean splitting. BTW splitting does not reduce a humbuckers output by 50% as was stated earlier. Why? B/C the second coil of the 'bucker functions to cancel noise through reverse polarity. That hum cancelling coil does not add to the output signal. Your volume fix?... FREE!... turn it up (amp, or guitar pot) and play on. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" Thank you for the response. If I wanted to have it fixed, what can I request be done to have the problem resolved (outside just turning the volume)? At this point, I am not sure if they are split or tapped then? The tech called it push pull coil tap in the order. Is the reduced volume normal, or should I take it back to have it looked at again?
RotcanX Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Actually... most manufacturers use 'splitting' and 'tapping' interchangeably, and in either case you are completely isolating one of the HB's coils. I suppose you could argue that a 'tapped' pickup has only two wires plus ground (shorting the second 'tap' output wire to ground effectively removes the second coil from the circuit) while a 'split' humbucker has four wires plus ground, which allows for a parallel configuration as well as the simple split setup. The alternate method to get a single coil sound using a parallel configuration keeps both coils in the circuit which gives a somewhat higher output and as a result is also less noisy than a split since you still get some humbucking effect. Seymour Duncan provides a schematic using a three way on/on/on toggle that lets you do all three (series/split/parallel) combinations. Personally I prefer to go the split route since IMO this gives the truest single coil effect.
antwhi2001 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 It ain't fixable. When split / tapped you are using less winding and you will get less volume output. Happens with every split / tapped pickup. If you wanted some way of automatically matching the levels it would be incredibly complicated. There would be no point inserting a resistor into the circuit to reduce the output of the "unsplit" humbucker - it wouldn't sound like a humbucker anymore. The alternative is to boost the split/tapped output via an active circuit which only cuts in when you use the push/pull. That would take a clever electrician, and chopping a cavity in your guitar for a 9v battery. If you were going to go "active", to get the most out of it you would probably add at least 1 more switch and a pot to your guitar. It really isn't worth it just to overcome your level problem. The practical solution is a footpedal to boost your signal. I use a Seymour Duncan pickup boost pedal; they can be used as a straight signal boost without changing EQ. Just set it to the right level and kick it in when you change to split/tap. http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/stompboxes/sfx01_pickup_bo/
Figstrum Posted May 6, 2009 Author Posted May 6, 2009 I get what you guys are saying. There is no way anyone is cutting into that guitar!!! I will follow Steven's advise and adjust the volume. Antwhi2001 had a pretty good one too, I have an old compressor pedal that I used for an out of phase Ibanez. I will give both options a try and see what develops. Great advise you guys, Thank you.
eezapz2101 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I get what you guys are saying. There is no way anyone is cutting into that guitar!!! I will follow Steven's advise and adjust the volume. Antwhi2001 had a pretty good one too' date=' I have an old compressor pedal that I used for an out of phase Ibanez. I will give both options a try and see what develops. Great advise you guys, Thank you. [/quote'] as i've been reading i still do not get why you whant a coil split? what soud or efect are you looking for? seem to me that if you new what you where looking for you would know what the outcome would be. inother words when you are considering something you do you're research first to understain the implications, and for this case coil split/tap will give you more or less a single coil sound by doing that as it was explained to you before the volume will drop for you will be using one coil. less windings less output. theres no way arround that. good luck i hope you achieve you're hearts desires. ps: research alot before trying something out, thres a lot of material on line that you can get you're hands on. thats my advise to you
Figstrum Posted May 8, 2009 Author Posted May 8, 2009 as i've been reading i still do not get why you whant a coil split? what soud or efect are you looking for? seem to me that if you new what you where looking for you would know what the outcome would be. inother words when you are considering something you do you're research first to understain the implications' date=' and for this case coil split/tap will give you more or less a single coil sound by doing that as it was explained to you before the volume will drop for you will be using one coil. less windings less output. theres no way arround that. good luck i hope you achieve you're hearts desires. ps: research alot before trying something out, thres a lot of material on line that you can get you're hands on. thats my advise to you[/quote'] A split coil will give you a single coil sound in a humbucker. That is why we come to these forums, to research and learn. Sorry if my post annoyed you.
Figstrum Posted May 9, 2009 Author Posted May 9, 2009 as i've been reading i still do not get why you whant a coil split? .............because I want it.
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