Rexfordbridge Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I just bought a used 2008 Goldtop Elitist. What a great guitar. I was doing some research and I can't find too much information on the pickups that are already in it. They sound good but I was wondering would the guitar sound better if I put '57 Classics in it or possibly Burstbuckers? Some guys on another forum said that my best bet would be to change the caps. It's a pretty cheap mod that will benefit me. What values should I get? I read somewhere that Sprague Vitamin Q are the way to go. Any tips? My goal is to make this the best guitar that I can. Sorry to pepper the post with so many questions. I would say the music I play is more classic rockish. Who, Zeppelin, Doobie Brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingarmadillo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Start with the same values as what's already in it unless you're really trying to change the sound. I saved a copy of the 2006 catalog and the pups are Epiphone 50SR as rhythm (neck) and a 60ST treble (bridge). If you like them now, I don't know that it would be worth it to change them - they're already USA Gibson made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexfordbridge Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Do you think a cap change is worth it? I was told this is the biggest weakness of this guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Do you think a cap change is worth it? No, I don't. New caps will not improve the tone of your guitar, despite unproven beliefs to the contrary. What amp(s) are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexfordbridge Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 I'm using a 1970 Princeton Reverb that I just had cleaned up by an amazing amp tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 That's a very good setup. I think tone changes (with the same guitar) would need to come from stompboxes, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Do you think a cap change is worth it? I was told this is the biggest weakness of this guitar. Sure, but don't overdo it. Those ceramic discs you have in there cost maybe 5 cent a piece. Spend 3 bucks on a pair of decent Orange drops or Mallory caps. Or 7 bucks on a pair of paper-in-oil caps if you're so inclined and they will give you a more usable tonepot. 25 bucks for some grey tigers or repro bumblebees probably not so much. Alltho I've never tried them and not planning to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexfordbridge Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Someone said to try this out....http://cgi.ebay.com/Relicd-Aged-Vintage-Style-Paper-In-Oil-022-LP-SG_W0QQitemZ120485796091QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0d8358fb#ht_500wt_956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Someone said to try this out.... http://cgi.ebay.com/Relicd-Aged-Vintage-Style-Paper-In-Oil-022-LP-SG_W0QQitemZ120485796091QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0d8358fb#ht_500wt_956 No doubt they work but more than half of what you're paying is for vintage looks alone. See if you can find some Russian PIO caps. They're not that expensive. Here you go: 15 bucks a pair, shipped... http://cgi.ebay.com/Russian-paper-in-oil-caps-022-400-v-pairs-LP-Guitars_W0QQitemZ380168850035QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item5883d44a73 http://cgi.ebay.com/2-022uf-400V-Russian-PIO-Paper-in-Oil-Capacitor-Guitar_W0QQitemZ120479360894QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item1c0d21277e#ht_551wt_1167 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexfordbridge Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks. I really like that first set. I will be purchasing them. On to my next question, I was told that the guitar can benefit from switching out the pickups. I was looking into the Gibson Classic '57's and the Guitarforce '57s. Any ideas? The sound I'm trying to achieve is U2, Who, Zeppelin, Doobie Brothers (classic rock vibe) Also, had any experience with the Jimmy Page wiring setup or should I just stay with the regular 50's wiring setup? I have definitely read some mixed reviews as some people say it's useful while others say the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks. I really like that first set. I will be purchasing them. On to my next question' date=' I was told that the guitar can benefit from switching out the pickups. I was looking into the Gibson Classic '57's and the Guitarforce '57s. Any ideas? The sound I'm trying to achieve is U2, Who, Zeppelin, Doobie Brothers (classic rock vibe) Also, had any experience with the Jimmy Page wiring setup or should I just stay with the regular 50's wiring setup? I have definitely read some mixed reviews as some people say it's useful while others say the opposite. [/quote'] Funnily enough I'm familiair with almost every PU Gibson makes ...except the Classics. I've never heard of Guitarforce. If they're vintage PAF-type output I'd say they should work for what you want. It's very likely that Jimmy Page never used the wiring schematic which was named after him and can be found on his Gibson signature guitars. I seem to recall he did make use of a Push Pull tonepot on the neck PU to switch to parallel. However I'm not 100% sure. I have a preference for basic 50's wiring myself, so you're asking the wrong guy. Btw. Wymore sells nice basic, good quality, no bullteek wiring sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexfordbridge Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 I like speaking with you because I think you're no nonsense. The other reason..I don't feel like you're a snake oil sales man. Anyway, if it was you, what would you do? Can you create a list of parts for me and I'll just purchase the parts and be done with it. Money is a factor. I'd like to do the whole thing for under $300. Thank you so much Ricochet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 If it was me, money would be an issue too. So first order is to try and score a used set of pickups with vintage (PAF-type) output. Used since that saves you about half the cost of a quality PU set. Rest assured it's almost impossible to screw up a PU, unless someone sets out to. Just make sure they have sufficient wire length left. Pickups that come to mind are: Gibson Burstbuckers 1,2,3 or Pros, '57 Classic, 490R, 490T Seymour Duncan SH1, SH2, APH Alnico Pros, SHPG1 Pearly Gates, or SH55 Seth Lover model Preferably a matched set, but any combination of above PUs is fine. If you're the suspicious or worrying kind ask seller for a meter-reading of DC-resistance. The PUs mentioned above should read anywhere between approx. 7.2 - 8.8KO values Buy 4 CTS (500K, Audio) pots at Wymore(or anywhere else), or buy their wiring kit with standard value 0.022 uF caps http://www.wymoreguitars.com/Les-Paul-Upgrade-Kit-Short-Shaft-Orange-Drop-Caps_p_339.html ...maybe add some wire, a Switchcraft 3-way toggle-switch, and output jack. Optionally replace the caps with PIOs. and replace the tonepots with Push/Pulls for some tonal variety. (I suggest a Phase switch for the neck-PU and Parallel/Series or Splitcoil for the bridge PU) Hope that gets you started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 If you play with tone pots always at 10 dont bother changing caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 If you replace the 1/4" jack, get the long shaft Switchcraft jack, the regular will be too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarpBoy Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Do you think a cap change is worth it? I was told this is the biggest weakness of this guitar. I have this same guitar, and wouldn't change a thing. Everyone has an opinion about all kinds of things, and "I was told..." or "I read that..." are the two most common reasons people make changes. I'm a big believer in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" world view. That is to say, if you like how the guitar sounds, don't make any changes; especially just because someone told you something. And actually, I did make a change to my Goldtop come to think of it....I changed the orange switch tip to white. I like 'em white better :-#/ Anyway, enjoy your new guitar. It's a beaut! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarpBoy Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Thanks. I really like that first set. I will be purchasing them. On to my next question' date=' I was told that the guitar can benefit from switching out the pickups. I was looking into the Gibson Classic '57's and the Guitarforce '57s. Any ideas? The sound I'm trying to achieve is U2, Who, Zeppelin, Doobie Brothers (classic rock vibe) Also, had any experience with the Jimmy Page wiring setup or should I just stay with the regular 50's wiring setup? I have definitely read some mixed reviews as some people say it's useful while others say the opposite. [/quote'] Leave it the way it is; it's a great guitar and could be collectible some day, or at a minimum desirable. I think the day will come where people will be buying up these great Japanese guitars (along with the other brands made in Japan). I know that when people are looking for obsolete guitars today they always prefer to find them unmodified. The reason is because when people buy older guitars they appreciate the sound and feel those guitars made back when they were made. They become time capsules in a way. A couple of years ago I sold an old '82 Vantage bass to a gentleman. He had a real love for guitars made by Matsumoku. I'd bought this guitar a few years before for a couple hundred bucks because it had very expensive EMG active pickups in it that were worth more than the price of the whole guitar. I also liked the patina and old school look of it. However, he was somewhat disappointed that the original pickups had been replaced. He bought it anyway and said he'd be on the lookout for some original pups for it. I have a Squier '51 that is completely original. It's a cheap guitar with a unique look and amazing sound. People go nuts modifying these. I say, hey it's a Squier '51. 20 or 30 years from now I want to have an original because it will be the real thing, and people who appreciate them will appreciate an original with all its warts (read "cheap parts"). Which would you rather have: an unmodified 50's Les Paul Junior, or one where someone modified it as soon as their Mom and Dad bought it for them as an affordable starter guitar? I know which one I'd be more pleased to have, because then I'd have the real deal. That's how I see my Elite Goldtop and my quirky little 51. Anyway, sorry for the gentle rant; I think we guitar players are suckers and lemmings, being led along by marketing forces and the group conformity exaggerated by the interwebs. By the way, changing your pickups/pots/caps, etc won't give you the sound of those artists. You'll need the same amps, fingers, talent, roadies and effects (in the case of U2). You have a nice guitar; leave it the way it is and enjoy it. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Some valid points made. Now, do you want to keep your guitar all original because it might be collectable? Because then you might just as well lock it away. None of the guitarplayers/bands mentioned in this thread kept their guitars original. Just play your guitar, but if you feel you need to mod it because you're looking for something different or you think it will get you closer to a particular sound then go right ahead. Half of knowing what you want is knowing what you don't want. Best of all...modding guitars is fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexfordbridge Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 I have modified all but one guitar (I have 6) so I will admit that I like to mod. my guitars. Fact is, I try to make my guitars the best they can be without breaking the bank. I do know that Epiphone takes some short cuts to save money and those are the parts that I look to make better. While I know that I will never sound like Page or the Edge I'm just using them as eaxmples of guitar tone that I look for. Say, as opposed to Randy Rhoads. Found a guy on another board that is going to offer me tech support and put the whole kit together for me with a jack, switch, wire, and the pots. I'll install all of this and see where I'm at. If I'm not there, then I put in the new pickups. Thanks for your help everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexfordbridge Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 After speaking with the guy, then pricing the items myself, I've decided that purchasing the parts myself from Wymore is half as cheap. He wanted $95 and it appears I can buy the parts for around $60. Here is a list of parts that I believe I will need. Questions are included as I go. Tell me if you can think of anything else? If someone can provide the proper part name that would be great! Capacitors - $15---http://cgi.ebay.com/Russian-paper-in-oil-caps-022-400-v-pairs-LP-Guitars_W0QQitemZ380168850035QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item5883d44a73#ht_640wt_941 Pots - $18 (Which pots? http://www.wymoreguitars.com/Pots-and-Jacks_c_56.html) 3 Way Toggle - $ 12.75 - Which Toggle? --- http://www.wymoreguitars.com/Switches_c_89.html Switchcraft Output Jack - Which output jack? ---http://www.wymoreguitars.com/Pots-and-Jacks_c_56.html Wire - Which wire and how much? ---http://www.wymoreguitars.com/Wire_c_59.html He did says that he would include a diagram and a harness. The diagram I can get anywhere. Should I worry about the harness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I mod all my guitars, with the exeption of my Elitist. It is the only guitar I have been totally happy with stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Rex, for some reason I can't access Wymore. But I'd opt for 500K CTS long Audio pots. The long 3-way toggle and mono-output from Switchcraft. Wire I buy in meters myself . Not sure how that converts to feet. I suppose 1.5 feet should do it? Braided kind from toggle to output and both volume pots. Regular for anything else. Depends what kind of Harness. My interpretation is he pre-solders everything on a grounding plate or piece of cardboard, leaving you to solder the output and toggle. Not sure tho, but I wouldn't worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexfordbridge Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 There are so many choices for 500K CTS pots. First, I was under the impression that with the Elitist I would need the short shaft. Right or wrong? Does the 500K, Linear Taper, CTS, Split Shaft Pot sound correct? Split or solid? But there are also Audio Taper pots, and push/pull pots. Very confusing! The switch, "toggle, 3-way toggle, switchcraft". Get the striaight or the right angle? The jack - "Jack, 1/4, phone, switchcraft" Wire - "Vintage cloth, covered, 22ga., " Get the one with conducter, braided? Or just plain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 There are so many choices for 500K CTS pots. First' date=' I was under the impression that with the Elitist I would need the short shaft. Right or wrong? Does the 500K, Linear Taper, CTS, Split Shaft Pot sound correct? Split or solid? But there are also Audio Taper pots, and push/pull pots. Very confusing![/quote'] Generally imports take short shafts, but in this case I wouldn't risk it and opt for the long ones. You want CTS 500K LOG(arhytmic) not Linear. Split shaft. Push/pulls are pots with a switchfunction, activated by pushing or pulling the knob. The switch, "toggle, 3-way toggle, switchcraft". Get the striaight or the right angle? The jack - "Jack, 1/4, phone, switchcraft" Wire - "Vintage cloth, covered, 22ga., " Get the one with conducter, braided? Or just plain? Yes, Straight. Yes Either one. If you think looks under a plastic cover are important get braided. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 There are so many choices for 500K CTS pots. First' date=' I was under the impression that with the Elitist I would need the short shaft. Right or wrong? Does the 500K, Linear Taper, CTS, Split Shaft Pot sound correct? Split or solid? But there are also Audio Taper pots, and push/pull pots. Very confusing! The switch, "toggle, 3-way toggle, switchcraft". Get the striaight or the right angle? The jack - "Jack, 1/4, phone, switchcraft" Wire - "Vintage cloth, covered, 22ga., " Get the one with conducter, braided? Or just plain?[/quote'] ???? You do know that a major difference between an regular Epi and an Epi Elite/Elitist is the quality of the pups, wiring, switches, jacks & pots, right? Since you said that budget is important to you, are you sure you want to throw your money at replacing these already high-quality items? A cap change -- may give you minimal tone variation. But if the $15 PIOs don't buy your nirvana, then neither will replacement pots, wires, switches. Your Elitist PUPs are already USA made Gibsons (50SR & 60ST w/braided wire). IMO your money is better spent on a good 7 band EQ (Danelectro works great for under $50)..., and then if you're still searching maybe it's time to re-think your entire non-guitar rig (cords to speakers and everything in between). Hope you find the tone you are seeking. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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