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If Epi Used Solid Tonewoods


Strumbone

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There's a guitar company north of us...well, north of USA, that has access to lots of very nice mahogany, maple, and other tonewoods. These are harvested, then shipped overseas (Korea), where they are cut, sawn, finished, and made into guitars, which are then shipped back to Canada for electronics, etc. Here's a link: Prestige Guitar

 

I'm not dissing my Sheraton...I like it a LOT! But can you imagine what our Epi's would sound like, and look like, if they were made with some of this wood? Yeah, I know, it would also cost more $$$. It almost gives me a woody to visualize some solid flamed maple under my tobacco burst!

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I'm sorry, what? Last time I checked, my Epis were made of solid wood. Except the Casino of course, but it's ok for there to be a few gallons of air in that one!

 

Anyway, I'd also like to put my vote in for 'if it sounds good and plays well, then who gives a rat's a$$ what it's made of'.

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I'm sorry' date=' what? Last time I checked, my Epis were made of solid wood. Except the Casino of course, but it's ok for there to be a few gallons of air in that one!

 

Anyway, I'd also like to put my vote in for 'if it sounds good and plays well, then who gives a rat's a$$ what it's made of'.[/quote']

 

+ 1

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I'm sorry' date=' what? Last time I checked, my Epis were made of solid wood. Except the Casino of course, but it's ok for there to be a few gallons of air in that one!

 

Anyway, I'd also like to put my vote in for 'if it sounds good and plays well, then who gives a rat's a$$ what it's made of'.[/quote']

 

Amen ... plus, I am with Ron on this one! With the hot pup's they are making these days, you could nail them to a hockey stick, string it up and have a decent sounding guitar. Looks-wise might be a different story, but I don't really feel wood type (or more to the point, country of origin) has a huge effect on the tone once it is pumped through an amp and various effects pedals.

 

Jim

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There's a guitar company north of us...well' date=' north of USA, that has access to lots of very nice mahogany, maple, and other tonewoods. These are harvested, then shipped overseas (Korea), where they are cut, sawn, finished, and made into guitars, which are then shipped back to Canada for electronics, etc. Here's a link: Prestige Guitar

 

I'm not dissing my Sheraton...I like it a LOT! But can you imagine what our Epi's would sound like, and look like, if they were made with some of this wood? Yeah, I know, it would also cost more $$$. It almost gives me a woody to visualize some solid flamed maple under my tobacco burst!

 

Meh.

 

My Emily The Strange G-310 is made of ply "schmonewood" and sounds fine.

 

Not sure what my Wildkat is but that sounds good too. Epi do use solid tonewoods on the higher-end models. If that factory near you ships to Korea, well my Wildkat is Korean so maybe some of that wood that grows near where you live is in my guitar. Not that it would matter.

 

Tone mostly comes from the fingers of the player, then the amp settings and pickups, wood is somewhere way, way down the list on an electric. On an acoustic it matters more, but even then, what really matters is that you know how to play the damn thing. A good guitarist can make anything sound good. A bad guitarist ain't sounding good no matter what, until they practice more.

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Here's some essential reading for all the "tone wood" gourmets: http://www.guitarattack.com/mythbusters.htm

 

My own personal opinion is that the fixation on certain woods' date=' vintage pickups, etc. is just a strategy used by sellers to justify their insane prices and convince middle aged doctors and accountants to pay thousands for a guitar.

 

Unfortunately it seems to be working.

 

[/quote']

 

Most of the selling of vintage guitars is not because of the wood, but the fact

that these were around in the 50s or 60s when the buyer was a young man and

now he want's to reclaim his youth by buying part of history. [biggrin]

Middle aged doctors, lawyers, accountants make the big bucks to afford these, and in some

cases, whether they are collector players or not..are willing to shell out the big bucks to

own a piece of history..like the '59 LP or Strat or whathaveyou.

 

This desire to reclaim part of their youth is a fleeting moment in their lives and after they

acquire it, they realize that the guitar in question is not the magic exlir or fountain of youth..

but just basically an instrument...now it's an investment to be resold for (hopefully) more

on the resale market..or..passed on to family to sell on Fleabay later on.

 

As far as tonewoods, yes some woods have different resonant qualities from others, but

other than that it's the pretty grain patterns or colours.

 

Now as far as those "pafs" and bumblebee caps...you gotta believe that they are worth the

extra money. Even the boys at Mythbusters would not be able to prove one way or another

that they are better than what's out there in the aftermarket today or even what Gibson

has to offer now..but that they are "different".

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There's a guitar company north of us...well' date=' north of USA, that has access to lots of very nice mahogany, maple, and other tonewoods. These are harvested, then shipped overseas (Korea), where they are cut, sawn, finished, and made into guitars, which are then [b']shipped back to Canada for electronics[/b], etc.

 

What? Shipped back to Canada? electronics assembly still done in Canada? Hard to believe anything is still made here in consumer electronics.

 

Wood work, well that's another matter. We could even make the guitars here..but then we would have

to charge Gibson prices and several taxes on top of that! LOL!

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Here is my take on "tonewood" for an electric guitar.

 

I have a 1970 Gibson ES-330 and a 2001 Epiphone Casino. Pretty identical guitars except the Made In Kalamazoo Gibson is made with better wood. How do I know? They are acoustic archtops with pickups, and the Gibson sounds much better than the Made In Korea (Peerless) Epiphone unplugged.

 

The Gibson is obviously the superior tonewood guitar.

 

The Gibson has stock Gibson P90s and the Epiphone has Seymour Duncan P90s.

 

Plug them in and the Epiphone guitar sounds better. Why? Because with an electric guitar, you aren't playing the wood, you are using the guitar simply as a holder while you play the pickups.

 

On the other hand, the wood does make a different for acoustic guitars, because you are playing the guitar, not the pickups.

 

I don't believe in tonewood for electric guitars. Like many others, I think it is just a marketing term to get you to buy a higher-end (read: higher markup) guitar.

 

GuitarCousins2.JPG

 

Insights and incites by Notes

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Here is my take on "tonewood" for an electric guitar.

 

I have a 1970 Gibson ES-330 and a 2001 Epiphone Casino. Pretty identical guitars except the Made In Kalamazoo Gibson is made with better wood. How do I know? They are acoustic archtops with pickups' date=' and the Gibson sounds much better than the Made In Korea (Peerless) Epiphone [b']unplugged[/b].

 

The Gibson is obviously the superior tonewood guitar.

 

The Gibson has stock Gibson P90s and the Epiphone has Seymour Duncan P90s.

 

Plug them in and the Epiphone guitar sounds better. Why? Because with an electric guitar, you aren't playing the wood, you are using the guitar simply as a holder while you play the pickups.

 

On the other hand, the wood does make a different for acoustic guitars, because you are playing the guitar, not the pickups.

 

I don't believe in tonewood for electric guitars. Like many others, I think it is just a marketing term to get you to buy a higher-end (read: higher markup) guitar.

 

GuitarCousins2.JPG

 

Insights and incites by Notes

Makes sense to me, Notes. And, DANG, that Gib is sure pretty (not to discount the Epi, but....DANG !!!)[cool]
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Here is my take on "tonewood" for an electric guitar.

 

I have a 1970 Gibson ES-330 and a 2001 Epiphone Casino. Pretty identical guitars except the Made In Kalamazoo Gibson is made with better wood. How do I know? They are acoustic archtops with pickups' date=' and the Gibson sounds much better than the Made In Korea (Peerless) Epiphone [b']unplugged[/b].

 

The Gibson is obviously the superior tonewood guitar.

 

The Gibson has stock Gibson P90s and the Epiphone has Seymour Duncan P90s.

 

Plug them in and the Epiphone guitar sounds better. Why? Because with an electric guitar, you aren't playing the wood, you are using the guitar simply as a holder while you play the pickups.

 

On the other hand, the wood does make a different for acoustic guitars, because you are playing the guitar, not the pickups.

 

I don't believe in tonewood for electric guitars. Like many others, I think it is just a marketing term to get you to buy a higher-end (read: higher markup) guitar.

 

GuitarCousins2.JPG

 

Insights and incites by Notes

 

That's what I was thinking Notes. If the interaction between string vibrations and the wood is noticeable unplugged, shouldn't it make a sonic difference while plugged in as well? As noted in my original post, I like my Sheri a lot, and have no intention of buying a Gibson. My point was "what if" Epi had access to some of that quilted maple and nice mahogany from our Canadian neighbors. Maybe, as others have noted, the difference would be purely cosmetic.

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Some people "MAY" be able to tell the difference in different woods. I read a story about EVH where his newest "Wolfgang" model was being made. Eddie specified a certain wood and when he got a guitar to try he was able to tell they didn't use what he said just by it's tone.

 

Not many have ears that can pick out the differences in an electric. Now acoustically it's a definite difference. My guild GAD 25 has (quote from Guild)

 

" GAD-25 has a dreadnought body, solid mahogany top, back and sides; bone nut and saddle, wood bindings, rosewood fingerboard and bridge"

 

And it sounds like no other acoustic I've tried, not saying better, it just has a tone all it's own

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You mean like this...

Hockey Stick Guitar- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLE_yxDw2B8

I can tell just by the tone, that stick is laminated maple.

 

Back in the day, real hockey sticks were made of solid old-growth mahogany (not schmahogany), hand-shaped by little elves in Santa's workshop, and each one personally tested by Wayne Gretsky.

 

I have one of the vintage sticks (with hang tags and papers) for sale on eBay right now for $12,000 and it's a steal.

 

Any investment bankers in the house? I need some Xmas money.

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Not many have ears that can pick out the differences in an electric. Now acoustically it's a definite difference. My guild GAD 25 has (quote from Guild)

 

" GAD-25 has a dreadnought body' date=' solid mahogany top, back and sides; bone nut and saddle, wood bindings, rosewood fingerboard and bridge"

 

And it sounds like no other acoustic I've tried, not saying better, it just has a tone all it's own[/quote']

 

Solid mahogany top. Yes I have one of those too...and it is a solid mahogany top

sides, back on mine, but the ribs are made from spruce..go figure!

I got one of those F-349 dreadnoughts made by Takamine in the 80s,

that looks a bit like a D-18..(they are called the lawsuit guitar)

 

Ok, this is an electrics forum, so I just wanted to say, that those Honduras old growth

mahoganys can sound pretty good..but an old growth sitka spruce or

bearclaw spruce is even better.. So when you are talking acoustics..tone woods

are a whole new ball game.

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Okay . . . but maybe they can start to use that good mahogany on the neck?

 

picture110q.jpg

 

Mahogany is not a good wood to use for a neck in the first place. If GIbson/Epi cared about the necks breaking, they would A1. make the necks of Maple and B2. bring back the Norlin era volute. (The only good thing Norlin ever did). The VAST MAJORITY of Fenders have Maple necks. When was the last time you saw a strat break 'cause it fell off it's stand? Falls a Les Paul would be terrifed of, a Fender just laughs at. The only time I have EVER seen a broken Fender neck was because someone smashed it. And they should bring back the volute to make the necks stonger under the nut, that's where these necks ALWAYS break. But of course Gibson/Epi dosen't care about any of that. They want you to buy a new one when yours breaks.

 

End Rant.

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I can tell just by the tone' date=' that stick is laminated maple.

 

Back in the day, real hockey sticks were made of solid old-growth mahogany (not schmahogany), hand-shaped by little elves in Santa's workshop, and each one personally tested by Wayne Gretsky.

 

I have one of the vintage sticks (with hang tags and papers) for sale on eBay right now for $12,000 and it's a steal.

 

Any investment bankers in the house? I need some Xmas money.[/quote']

 

I beg to differ! :)

That is a TPS fretless wonder! Laminated hard maple/old growth red oak, maybe a layer of birch too, and possibly

some imported crate wood thrown in to soften the tone timbre (timbers) .

 

No question about it's excellent tone, maybe some duct tape wrapped around the "body part "might improve the sustain..but nonetheless..an alternative to those Chinese made guitars.

 

 

It's that pure tone that will fetch a lot of money on E-Bay. Buyers are getting bored with to many cookie cutter

guitars out there. If you want to make it big..you need a new "schtick"...LOL!..and of course .."keep your stick

on the ice"..as Red Green would advise us.

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I guess' date=' if the Fenders did have an angled headstock they wouldn't stay much longer than Epi/Gibby#-o

 

Or are the maple necks on Epi/Gibby safe for breaking?:)

 

Peter[/quote']

 

Carvin necks don't break. 14 degree tilt, 6-on-a-side-tuners, Hardrock Maple. They're drop-in replacements for a Fender neck. I rest my case.

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Mahogany is not a good wood to use for a neck in the first place. If GIbson/Epi cared about the necks breaking' date=' they would A1. make the necks of Maple and B2. bring back the Norlin era volute.

End Rant.

 

[/quote']

 

 

Back in the days when they used old growth Honduras mahoganies on USA Epis

it wasn't a problem, as the Honduras is known for it's close grain and strength.

It's all this fast growing plantation mahoganies that have low strength and "voids"

between the grain/fibers that weaken those necks and the Gibson style truss rod

that is responsible.

Martin and other manufactures make their necks out of mahogany and have the truss

rod adjustable from the sound hole or end of the neck next to the p_ups.

 

Scooping out a bit part of the neck to bury the Gibson style truss rod is the

main reason for breakages in the asian made Epis.

 

A volute would certainly reinforce that critical area, or..

making the neck a laminated 3 piece mahog/maple/mahogany..

 

but that would be be another factory operation or two to laminate the necks or add a volute,

and slowing down the mass production process! Time is money!

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Doesn't the body wood affect the string resonance? and thereby affecting the field in (and sound from) the pickups? I thought this was the reason why LP's have sustain that lasts longer than any Duracell battery, and hollowbody guitars have less sustain and are prone to feedback?

 

If I maintain this line of thinking, then I can certainly see some validity in the statement that wood type can affect tone.

 

Some woods are more solid than others, so when I have a guitar with a laminated body, could the following be true: the layer of laminated wood has a different density than the wood directly beneath it (which could be multiplex wood), so it will resonate at a different frequency (?) than the base wood. Like sound in air, perhaps at some frequencies the resonating laminate and base could intensify eachother where at other frequencies could cancel eachother out. In other words, the vibrations that get transferred to the strings are affected, affecting the magnetic field in the pickups, affecting the sound that the pickups eventually produce through the amplifier.

 

Does that make sense? I'm not a sound tech at all, and I have a bit of trouble trying to put my limited technical knowledge into the language translator in my brain lol.

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