mortsaltzman Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Ah, the Epiphone Casino. My brother was after one for many, many years, and we finally all chipped in and bought him one. A nice tobacco burst, MIK (according to guitar dater, serial is 407xxxx) circa July 1994. Trouble was, I had the thing in my house for a month before his birthday, and ended up falling in love with it. The sound, the playability...damn fine guitar, especially for the money. So, we gave it to him a year ago, and he loves it. And I've spent most of the year that followed trying to find one for myself. Trouble is...while his is supposedly a MIK '94 model, it has quite a few differences from every other (mostly those easily identified as Peerless) Casino I've seen from the mid 90's on, including one I bought before I knew of all of the differences. The differences include: 1. Weight. This Casino weighs at least 3-4 lbs. more than the 2000 Peerless model that I put on a scale. The Peerless came in at 5lbs, 9oz. I don't know the weight on the "mystery" casino, since my postal scale doesn't go that high, and my bathroom scale isn't sensitive enough to smaller items. But it's noticably and obviously heavier than the Peerless. 2. Truss rod cover: two screws instead of three 3. Truss rod cover: E symbol is elongated, more elliptical, less round than the Peerless ones I've seen 4. Fretboard inlays appear to be mother of pearl, rather than the milky mother of pearl ish looking plastic ones on the Peerless 5. Serial number is printed on the back of the headstock, and not on the label inside the guitar 6. Rectangular label instead of oval inside 7. Last but most important, the sound. While the Peerless sounds like a Casino should, the mystery casino is noticably more resonant, and has a fuller lower frequency and slightly better note definition. In short, it's like a supercharged MIK casino. And I'm still trying to find one (preferably in Ebony) but not knowing what the mystery casino is, or where it came from, why it's different than the other MIKs, makes it harder to do. Anyone have an idea where this strange bird is from? TIA. Mort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Sounds like a Matsumoku-made Casino to me... the serial numbers for that era were random and can't be deciphered, but can be mistaken for others. They have two-screw truss rod covers and rectangular labels. They're very close to Kalamazoo Casinos... as much as the Elitist/Lennon models. They were produced by Matsumoku between 1976 and 1986. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortsaltzman Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Dang! thanks, Pohatu. Are there any telltale signs one can use to be sure if it's Matsumoku? Also, one other difference I forgot to mention. The Peerless Casinos tend to have Kluson copy style tuners (the ones that haven't already been replaced by their owners which seems fairly common). This one seems to have factory (got the Epi logo on 'em) sealed tuners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayor brown Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 http://www.gearboutique.com/?p=42 verdad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Flick Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 http://www.gearboutique.com/?p=42 verdad? Pohatu's correct' date=' it's a Matsumoku Casino. The only thing he got wrong is that the serial numbers can be deciphered on the Matsumoku Casinos, it's just the cheaper 1970s ones that are random. And it's July 1984, not 1994 (the serial # decoder doesn't recognize these numbers). The square label should look like this: [img']http://home.earthlink.net/~jkmcleer/Guitars/Casino_wr_label.jpg[/img] WR stands for Wine Red, yours would probably be AS for Antique Sunburst. These are tremendous guitars, I've had two of them and they're are good as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Epiphone-logo tuners seem much more recent than Matsumoku... I don't know if they were used before the modern Qing-Dao instruments. My 2001 Peerless has non-marked Kluson copies. This was posted over a year ago by a member comparing his Lennon 1965 (made at Terada) and his Matsumoku. http://forums.epiphone.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=5736 I'm looking, but can't find a good description of the Matsumoku guitars. If you post photos of yours, it would help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Flick Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Epiphone-logo tuners seem much more recent than Matsumoku... I don't know if they were used before the modern Qing-Dao instruments. My 2001 Peerless has non-marked Kluson copies. This was posted over a year ago by a member comparing his Lennon 1965 (made at Terada) and his Matsumoku. http://forums.epiphone.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=5736 I'm looking' date=' but can't find a good description of the Matsumoku guitars. If you post photos of yours, it would help a lot.[/quote'] Matsumoku Casinos did have E engraved on their tuning pegs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I mixed up some information... I was thinking they were sealed Kluson-style tuners. That's what happens when you do detective work at 3:30 in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strumbone Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Dang...both you guys are gooood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortsaltzman Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Potahu, jerrymac...thanks a billion. You nailed it. Now that we know what it is, turning up additional information about it just got worlds easier. The tag inside, tuners, and the details from the link you posted match this instrument exactly. Even though some of that information suggests finding another one will be no easy task, at least the lights are on and I can see where I'm searching. If anyone happens to have an ebony model that needs a new home, by all means let me know what you want for it. My username @ gmail.com will work, or post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayor brown Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 does anyone know for sure if ebony models were produced by matsumoku? garcias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Flick Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 does anyone know for sure if ebony models were produced by matsumoku? garcias. I've never seen one, and the 1982 & 1983 Price List only shows Antique Sunburst and Wine Red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayor brown Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I've never seen one' date=' and the 1982 & 1983 Price List only shows Antique Sunburst and Wine Red. [/quote'] doh. thanks, jerrymac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jig Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 http://www.gearboutique.com/?p=42 verdad? I have one of these but with an "e" and two screws on the trussrod cover as in the first post.Any information on date and place of manufacture would be appreciated.It has slight corrosion to the hardware but with a new pair of strings and polish would be an immaculate vintage looking guitar.I would like to sell this to an Epiphone fan as I can't play anymore due to a broken wrist and finances are bad at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Flick Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I have one of these but with an "e" and two screws on the trussrod cover as in the first post.Any information on date and place of manufacture would be appreciated.It has slight corrosion to the hardware but with a new pair of strings and polish would be an immaculate vintage looking guitar.I would like to sell this to an Epiphone fan as I can't play anymore due to a broken wrist and finances are bad at the moment. November 1983 Matsumoku Made in Japan. These are way better quality than the standard Korean / Chinese models currently made, and worth considerably more money. I don't know the British market that well, so I can't advise you on it's value, but I suggest you ask Frenchy. Great guy, knows these guitars better than anyone, and probably can advise you on the going rates on your side of the pond. I'm sure there would be a few fellow Brits on the forum who would be interested, once you determine it's value you should post it in the Trading Post section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jig Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Thanks jerrymac,I take it Frenchy is a member on this forum.I will put it up for sale on here before anywhere else with some better photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Flick Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Thanks jerrymac' date='I take it Frenchy is a member on this forum.I will put it up for sale on here before anywhere else with some better photos.[/quote'] Yes, it's actually frenchie, I couldn't remember how he spelled it. Welcome to the camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 does anyone know for sure if ebony models were produced by matsumoku? garcias. As far as I am aware, the only export Matsumoku made Casino`s were either in Wine Red or Antique Sunburst finishes, although it is just possible a few Blonde ones got out in 1983, I myself owned one. As for the domestic market versions, you could have the already mentioned colours, plus, shaded (Sunburst)front & Back, Shaded front with Walnut stained back (ALA 60`s Kalamazoo), Oak shade (A kind of washed out Cherry Sunburst), and a few others, but as of yet I have only seen one Ebony (Black) Matsumoku made Casino, serial number 2070418, and that one is on Tad Miura`s web page (TAD=WEB). I am not sure whether this guitar is a refin or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayor brown Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 thanks a bunch for the response. i spose theres nill on elitists in ebony as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 thanks a bunch for the response. i spose theres nill on elitists in ebony as well? No those Elitist Casino`s came in Shaded (Sunburst) or Natural (Blonde), sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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