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Particle Board Casino?


DizzyFingers

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I own a Black MIK Casino that is going thru mods. Needless to say I had to cut a hole in the back of the guitar to wire up the Baggs Piezo pickup. The piece of wood that I cut out is 3" wide by an 1 1/2"...Looking at the piece of wood it is made up of paint then a white looking particle board then a layer of a red looking particle board bound in the back with a thin red veneer of some kind...:( I cannot say for sure that the porous looking wood is particle board, but it definitely looks that way...!

 

One thing for sure...there are three distinct layers of "wood" on the back of my Casino. And sorry, I don't have a macro feature on my camera...[blush]

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I own a Black MIK Casino that is going thru mods. Needless to say I had to cut a hole in the back of the guitar to wire up the Baggs Piezo pickup. The piece of wood that I cut out is 3" wide by an 1 1/2"...Looking at the piece of wood it is made up of paint then a white looking particle board then a layer of a red looking particle board bound in the back with a thin red veneer of some kind...:( I cannot say for sure that the porous looking wood is particle board' date=' but it definitely looks that way...!

 

One thing for sure...there are three distinct layers of "wood" on the back of my Casino. And sorry, I don't have a macro feature on my camera...[blush

 

 

I could understand if it was just honest-to-God plywood, because that's what it's supposed to be made of.

 

But particle board? I'm hoping that there's some sort of British / American English confusion here, because particle board to my mind conjures up what we call "chipboard." Used in everything from cheap kitchens to cheap coffins.

 

I know Epis are inexpensive when compared to Gibsons. But composite "wood"? I hope not.

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This wood is not "chipboard" it looks like sawdust glued together, "particleboard"...it is very porous looking and each layer is about an 1/8 of an inch thick bound by a 1/32 inch thick piece of red looking veneer....Don't get me wrong I own two Casino's two SG's and a Ultra II all Epi's....

 

I just thought that these guitars were made out of something like poplar...not particle board...:(

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I wonder, I suppose you're planning to re-install this cut out piece of wood. If not, or if your curiosity outweighs your devotion to the integrity of the cut out, you could plane or chisel a little into the wood, to determine if there's any grain. Maybe it's just porous wood and the edges of the cut are fuzzy. If it really is particle board or fiberboard, Epiphone has some explaining to do!

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I own a Black MIK Casino that is going thru mods. Needless to say I had to cut a hole in the back of the guitar to wire up the Baggs Piezo pickup. The piece of wood that I cut out is 3" wide by an 1 1/2"...Looking at the piece of wood it is made up of paint then a white looking particle board then a layer of a red looking particle board bound in the back with a thin red veneer of some kind...:( I cannot say for sure that the porous looking wood is particle board' date=' but it definitely looks that way...!

 

One thing for sure...there are three distinct layers of "wood" on the back of my Casino. And sorry, I don't have a macro feature on my camera...[blush

 

Yes, MIK Casinos have 3 ply laminate bodies, but it's not particle board. Let's use some common sense, you know the top layer of the back is wood (maple) because you can see it through the f-hole. Right??? You know the bottom layer is wood, because you can see the back on natural & sunburst Casinos (see photo). You still with me??? That leaves only the middle layer. Do you think they're going to sandwich a piece of particle board between two pieces of wood??? And don't forget, the tops & backs are steamed to arch them. You need real wood to do do that.

 

!BjLhEjw!2k~$(KGrHqYH-CQEsMKuO7JLBLShDVy)ww~~_3.JPG

Back of Natural MIK Casino

Now I have a question for you. You're cutting holes out of the back of your Casino, do you have any wood working experience??? I would think you would know that you don't spray black paint directly on the wood, you use several coats of primer first so you get a nice even finish. Guess what the "white looking particle board then a layer of a red looking particle board" is???

 

Blue%20Strat%20Body%20Pocket.jpg

 

Take a look at that neck pocket. See the traces of red & white paint??? See the white layer under the blue in the chip??? Look under the pickguard, see the layers of red, white & blue??? It's not particle board, they weren't trying to be patriotic, it's primer.

 

Oy vey!!!

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Jerrymac...your only looking at an extremely thin piece of veneer....! I just cut the veneers off with a jacknife to get a closer look...On the paint side underneath of the paint is a veneer also...that means FOUR layers of "mystery wood"...you want to call it maple good for you...!

 

BTW layers of "paint" are not 1/8 of an inch thick...:(

 

I posted this merely for informational purposes for those who want to know...I know I do, if you don't then I guess it's your buisness...?

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Do you guys mean particle board as being fibreboard or 'MDF'?

 

I've used MDF for skirting boards, dado rails and architraves in the house because it doesn't warp like timber.

 

So if you're thinking it's MDF the lack of pliability may cause problems for forming an arched top, although it may add considerable strength for little cost.

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I own a Black MIK Casino that is going thru mods. Needless to say I had to cut a hole in the back of the guitar to wire up the Baggs Piezo pickup. The piece of wood that I cut out is 3" wide by an 1 1/2"...Looking at the piece of wood it is made up of paint then a white looking particle board then a layer of a red looking particle board bound in the back with a thin red veneer of some kind...:-k I cannot say for sure that the porous looking wood is particle board' date=' but it definitely looks that way...!

 

One thing for sure...there are three distinct layers of "wood" on the back of my Casino. And sorry, I don't have a macro feature on my camera...[blush

 

 

Particle board? Oh my..then the entire line has gone downhill if the archtops are being made

from that now.

 

BTW..there is a 3mm (1/8") particle board that has two dark layers on the outside and

a whitish thicker one in the middle. Hopefully this is not the type your guitar is made

from.

 

Particle cored veneered plywood will take on a arch shape because when they

apply heat, the glue binder that the plywood is made of will soften and it can

take a different shape. It is very pliable when steamed as well.

 

If the piece you removed can be delaminated, you will soon be able to see what

it's made of. A good plywood (3 layers or whatever) will have a core with a grain

running crosswise usually to the other layers.

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I have to agree with JM on this one (again).

 

Now' date=' WHY did you hack a hole in the back? And I'm quite morbid so can we have pics?[/quote']

 

If he's installing the LR Baggs t-bridge piezo..it is a nightmare to wire up in a thinline

as there are 6 short separate shielded wires from each individual piezo saddle,

that have to go inside and be soldered to a 6 into 1 printed circuit copper

and shielded summing board. This requires a reasonably large access hole to

accomplish ....unless you can bring everything up through the bridge p_up hole.

 

I thought on a Casino not having a center block this would be possible?

 

It's not a good design IMO..as I was lucky in my LP semi-acoustic that I installed it on.

as I just brought everything to the control cavity access hole...but the wiring

and soldering inside was a bit of a nightmare, IMO.

 

They would have been smarter to have the summing board built into the bridge

from the individual piezo saddles..but that's probably a very expensive thing

to do, nevermind the additional height that would result on the t-bridge.

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Jerrymac...your only looking at an extremely thin piece of veneer....! I just cut the veneers off with a jacknife to get a closer look...On the paint side underneath of the paint is a veneer also...that means FOUR layers of "mystery wood"...you want to call it maple good for you...!

 

BTW layers of "paint" are not 1/8 of an inch thick...:-k

 

I posted this merely for informational purposes for those who want to know...I know I do' date=' if you don't then I guess it's your buisness...?[/quote']

 

Look, if you want to accuse Epiphone of using particle board, then it's incumbent upon you to back it up with photos. And when you say "...white looking particle board then a layer of a red looking particle board...", it's obvious to anyone who has ever sanded down a guitar and come across the base coats beneath the main color knows exactly what the red & white you described is. Anyone who refinishes guitars knows that you first apply a sealer coat and then several coats of white primer before spraying the color coat. This process assures a smooth, even finish. And if you examined the photo of the neck pocket, you will see the red & white over spray on the sides and bottom of the pocket. Plus you will see just how thick the red & white coats are if you look under the pickguard or in the chip.

 

Let's go back to your original post since you don't bother to provide photos:

I own a Black MIK Casino that is going thru mods. Needless to say I had to cut a hole in the back of the guitar to wire up the Baggs Piezo pickup. The piece of wood that I cut out is 3" wide by an 1 1/2"...Looking at the piece of wood it is made up of paint then a white looking particle board then a layer of a red looking particle board bound in the back with a thin red veneer of some kind...Confused I cannot say for sure that the porous looking wood is particle board, but it definitely looks that way...!

 

One thing for sure...there are three distinct layers of "wood" on the back of my Casino. And sorry, I don't have a macro feature on my camera...

 

So quoting you, the order is:

 

Black Paint

white looking particle board

layer of a red looking particle board

porous looking wood (which you "cannot say for sure that the porous looking wood is particle board")

 

It obvious that you are saying the red & white layers are the particle board, but you're not sure about the porous looking wood. I told you what the red & white layers were, even took the trouble to upload a photo of a Strat with the same red & white layers. Teegar was probably dead on balls accurate when he theorized about the porous looking wood, "Maybe it's just porous wood and the edges of the cut are fuzzy..." Somehow you cut out a piece of the back of the guitar, did you expect the edges to look smooth & finished???

 

Next point, you snidely remarked, "you want to call it maple good for you..." I don't call it maple, Epiphone calls it maple. Laminated maple to be exact. And to verify it, all you have to do is look inside the f hole like I suggested. (All you Casino owners look inside your f hole - I'll wait...

 

Looks like a piece of maple, right??? It's not particle board, is it??? I didn't think so.)

 

Now for those with a natural finish, is the back maple or does it look like particle board??? I thought so.

 

You conclude by saying, "I posted this merely for informational purposes for those who want to know...I know I do, if you don't then I guess it's your buisness...?" You don't know, you jumped to a erroneous conclusion about the white and red layers being particle board. It's not, it's primer. To quote Guitar ReRanch, "The last step before applying the color coats is to apply a white primer coat." That's the white layer you see under the black paint. It's not particle board.

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Besides, real wood is much more porous than particle board, which is fairly dense and uniform. Wood by its very nature is full of tiny voids in the grain.:-k

 

And my point exactly, All that work could have easily been done through the pickup mounting hole. Dude just ruined a perfectly good guitar I guess. I wonder if he ever got the baggs to work?

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If he's installing the LR Baggs t-bridge piezo..it is a nightmare to wire up in a thinline

as there are 6 short separate shielded wires from each individual piezo saddle' date='

that have to go inside and be soldered to a 6 into 1 printed circuit copper

and shielded summing board. This requires a reasonably large access hole to

accomplish ....unless you can bring everything up through the bridge p_up hole.

 

I thought on a Casino not having a center block this would be possible? [/quote']

 

Exactly. There is a small block under the bridge area, but just remove the bridge pickup and you have complete access for the electronics. I don't how big the circuit board is, but the P-90 is pretty shallow and I would bet there's enough room to mount it under the pickup allowing easy access to it.

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Dizzy, don't mind those guys, they don't know what they're talking about.

 

Please post some pics of your work, I am very curious to see the Piezo installation.

 

BTW, when you use a Sawsall on a piece of painted "laminate" it tends to distort the primer layer, making it look thicker than it really is...

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Dizzy' date=' don't mind those guys, they don't know what they're talking about. [/quote']

 

o_rly.jpg

Jerrymac don't know what he's talkin' 'bout, eh? [confused] Interesting...

 

Please post some pics of your work' date=' I am very curious to see the Piezo installation.[/quote']

 

I am too, I just think it was really dumb to cut a hole in the back of the guitar...

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I own a Black MIK Casino that is going thru mods. Needless to say I had to cut a hole in the back of the guitar to wire up the Baggs Piezo pickup. The piece of wood that I cut out is 3" wide by an 1 1/2"...Looking at the piece of wood it is made up of paint then a white looking particle board then a layer of a red looking particle board bound in the back with a thin red veneer of some kind...[confused] I cannot say for sure that the porous looking wood is particle board' date=' but it definitely looks that way...!

 

One thing for sure...there are three distinct layers of "wood" on the back of my Casino. And sorry, I don't have a macro feature on my camera...[blush

 

OK, let's look at this one at a time.

 

1.) You didn't need to cut an opening in the guitar when you could have done this throught the pickup cutout.. But since you've already cut out the hole, I'm sure your going to finish it nicely.

2.) Since the guitar is black, that means ALOT of enamel paint. And that means alot of primer and sealer. MUCH more than on a "Natural" finish.

3.) A stated above, considering that this is a black guitar, the primer and sealer coats when cut with a "high-speed" tool will resemble layers of wood, when in fact they are coats of primer and sealer. The heat from the tool will "elongate" the layers of primer and sealer making them look thicker that they actually are. the only way to tell what your looking at is to remove the coatings from the top down. (remove the polyurethane,enamel,primer,sealer, etc...)

4.) The pourous looking layer IS plywood. It is NOT particle board. If it was, you would have a pretty ragged hole when you cut into this guitar. You made no mention of this, so I assume that this did not happen. (That means it's plywood, not particle board).

As Jetty stated, if you look into the f hole, what do you see? Wood grain, right? Do you think that is an "inner" veneer cap? It's NOT!

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OK' date=' let's look at this one at a time.

 

1.) You didn't need to cut an opening in the guitar when you could have done this throught the pickup cutout.. But since you've already cut out the hole, I'm sure your going to finish it nicely.

2.) Since the guitar is black, that means ALOT of enamel paint. And that means alot of primer and sealer. MUCH more than on a "Natural" finish.

3.) A stated above, considering that this is a black guitar, the primer and sealer coats when cut with a "high-speed" tool will resemble layers of wood, when in fact they are coats of primer and sealer. The heat from the tool will "elongate" the layers of primer and sealer making them look thicker that they actually are. the only way to tell what your looking at is to remove the coatings from the top down. (remove the polyurethane,enamel,primer,sealer, etc...)

4.) The pourous looking layer IS plywood. It is NOT particle board. If it was, you would have a pretty ragged hole when you cut into this guitar. You made no mention of this, so I assume that this did not happen. (That means it's plywood, not particle board).

As Jetty stated, if you look into the f hole, what do you see? Wood grain, right? Do you think that is an "inner" veneer cap? It's NOT!

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

1) You have no idea why the back was cut FYI...

2) Agreed

3) Look I peeled back the paint and there is a veneer and then a 1/8 inch of (plywood/ particle board/gypsum/fibreboard, white colored) then a 1/8 inch of red (plywood ?) and then another layer of veneer...

4) Good grief! Oh it's genuine plywood...???????

 

Listen you look into the f hole and you can imagine that it's oak if you want I have the proof in front of me...

 

Clinging to ignorance is not a virtue...!

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