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POWER TUBES, YOUR FAVORITE TYPE


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Hey guys, I am in the market for a new semi low watt head, I am lookn at these right now

Jet city 20watt-el84

Blackheart 15 watts-el84

Ibanez tube screamer 15wattr-6v6

 

I only have one amp right now with a 6v6 and its my little champ, I am not really positive on which power tube is better and gives different tones, so Im asking you fellas what yall prefer, all of those amp are just about the same price so, its really a matter of preference so help me out here guys,

 

by the way if you havnt seen heard of the Ibanez yet, check it out in the thread below this one

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If you're looking for a recommendation out of the short list you posted above:

Jet city 20watt-el84

Blackheart 15 watts-el84

Ibanez tube screamer 15wattr-6v6

 

My personal preference out of that small group is for the Jet City. The head, not the combo. Mine is arriving today. I've listened to the other amps and the Jet City combo. The Ibanez isn't available yet but the big selling point seems to be the Tube Screamer (from the pedal) circuit in the amp. I've heard the pedal and can take it or leave it. For me the choice was clear and quick. The Jet City amp head just sounded better and performed better right out of the box. Great cleans (but still not like a Fender clean) and a rich overdrive/distortion (but don't expect metal tones) and it plays nice with pedals. I've already purchased the speakers for it and now have to build the cab. The speakers are the Eminence Cannabis Rex and the cab will be built out of 1x pine and the tolex will match my Epi BC30 and the grill cloth will match my Mesa Boogie Nomad combo.

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It's really impossible to guage whether or not you'll prefer one or the other type of output tube just by asking others for their personal opinion.

 

You'll always find some who worship one tube and despise another, but it's really meaningless for YOUR consumption. What I or anyone else prefers really has no bearing on what YOU prefer. It's a purely subjective issue.

 

You'd be wise to either take your guitar to a store to try out different amps or, if you have the cash, buy one of each to try out at home and in band settings. It's really not until you get an amp into a live setting that you can ascertain its strengths and weaknesses anyway. You can plink around at home all you want and never find that out. Take the amp out on stage ONCE, and you'll know by the end of the first set what works and what doesn't.

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It's really impossible to guage whether or not you'll prefer one or the other type of output tube just by asking others for their personal opinion.

 

You'll always find some who worship one tube and despise another' date=' but it's really meaningless for YOUR consumption. What I or anyone else prefers really has no bearing on what YOU prefer. It's a purely subjective issue.

 

You'd be wise to either take your guitar to a store to try out different amps or, if you have the cash, buy one of each to try out at home and in band settings. It's really not until you get an amp into a live setting that you can ascertain its strengths and weaknesses anyway. You can plink around at home all you want and never find that out. Take the amp out on stage ONCE, and you'll know by the end of the first set what works and what doesn't. [/quote']

 

 

yes yes yes and every time some one asks a question some one like YOU will post a message like this and YOU did not even tell me a single thing about a tube amp or tubes so YOU dont have to read or respond to anything that YOU dont like......................................YOU!

 

 

Thank you Layboomo thats basically what I was looking for, and I like to hear other peoples opinions of this, it helps to make a well rounded choice, even when i go to the store I know what to look for and what ask the people form alot of stuff i get on here.....by the way, i never played a blackheart no place had one by me, there was one and only one u tube video with it when I bought it a more than a year ago....never regretd that.......I do think I am going to go with the Jet city!!!!!, I have heard nothing but good things, and its getting rave reviews, im gonna buy another blackheart 12 cab to match my other.....

 

Hey Twanger....How are those cannibs rex speakers? tone? performance? (prob another Question to susceptible to opinion) Also post some picks and a good review...yours very well may be what makes the sale for me

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Can't tell you about the Cannabis Rex speakers since I haven't completed the cabinet yet. However, I can tell you about the Jet City amp because I have a 2x10 closed back cabinet to play with.

 

Let me just first say that I am very happy with the JC amp. Overall I would call the amp a rock and roll amp. The gain structure and tone stack give nice but underpowered cleans. Where this amp really shines is in overdrive and crunchy tones. What comes to mind is a "plexi-like" sound complete with the "singing leads".

 

I got it all set up today and had to take the time to replace a speaker in the 2x10 cab because the surround had become unglued over about three inch portion and rattled like crazy. I wanted to get it done because where I work we're in rehearsals for a show this weekend. It's a variety show put on by the guys from a dorm at a local university. They do this every year and have for like the past 20 years. Anyway there's a band in the show and they have woefully inadequate gear. So being a nice guy who happened to have new amp I decided to let them use my amps so they wouldn't sound so bad. The kids can play but they were using a Fender Frontman 15 and some kind of little Vox amp with the built in FX. I did everything I could at the desk to make them sound better but the harsh reality is you really can't polish a turd. So, rather than suffering through a week of audio agony I took my amps to work.

 

Now let me paint the picture here. This is a 1300 seat auditorium with roughly 750 seats on the main floor and 550 in the balcony. The stage, the part the audience sees, is about 40 feet wide and about 30 feet deep. The band is set up at the midstage. At house left there are 2 electric guitar players and 2 acoustic guitar players. At the center on a riser is the drum kit. At house right there's the bass player and a 6 piece horn section. downstage center is a grand piano at half stick and depending on the song up to 3 vocals. Now, with the band playing at full tilt the JC amp will cut through the entire ensemble. This can be done by turning down the bass control to about 3-4, boosting the treble to just past the half way mark and turning up the presence to about 8 and the master volume was up at about 7 and we had to back it down for one song because it was too loud. So yes, I can unequivocally state that this amp will easily keep up in a live gig.

 

Now, on to the tone. To my ears this amp is just great. It allows you to get all that glorious tube distortion from both the preamp tubes and the power tubes without being obnoxiously loud. It will do loud real well but without that obnoxious quality like certain 50 watt and larger amps. It actually has what could be described as a refined or smooth quality about the distortion if that makes any sense to you. This is what lends to that singing lead tone. It's not what I would call "woman tone" but it's close enough to make me happy.

 

Now I haven't tried any single coils through it. I played my LP DC through it with the P90s here at home and the kid using it at work has humbuckers. In both cases it delivered all of the tone you would expect from those styles of pickups. The kid was also using some kind of Zoom pedal (sorry! I didn't note which model). His patches were mostly different overdrives/distortions. The amp played nice with his pedal but I can't say that they really added anything to the sound of the amp. With the great range of OD/crunch from the amp by itself, all you really need is a volume knob on your guitar and some dynamic control in your playing and you can make marvelous sounds without the use of pedals. I think FX pedals like reverb/delay and chorus would be really nice on this amp but the use of various OD/distortion pedals may not be necessary. Of course, that's just my opinion based on the tones I like. YMMV.

 

I'm really thinking that at this price point you simply will not find a better sounding tube amp. Again, that's just my opinion.

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yes yes yes and every time some one asks a question some one like YOU will post a message like this and YOU did not even tell me a single thing about a tube amp or tubes so YOU dont have to read or respond to anything that YOU dont like......................................YOU!

If YOU think that I didn't say anything about tube amps or tubes, YOU either didn't read what I wrote, or you simply chose not to comprehend and digest it.

 

Not only are tone preferences a purely subjective, highly personal matter, but it's really not all that viable to make generalized statements about a given power tube, in terms of tone, since overall amp design has a tremendous amount to do with how an amp's tone is perceived. That el84 that Vox used can also sound like a Marshall. That 6v6 that Fender used can too.

 

It's really not that relevant, truth be told. The differences in output tubes comes in more subtle ways, imo, such as the frequency response, the way that it distorts and how it handles running distorted, the harmonic content, the "sag" when pushed, etc. And, those are all things that really have to be experienced in order to grasp and make use of.

 

As a random, personalized example, I favor Marshall-ey flavored amps. I currently run three, a single-ended EL34 Vjr conversion, a 2xel84 Vjr conversion, and a plexi modified BF bassman that runs a pair of EL34s. All of them sound very much Marshall. Each of them is different in its own unique way. If I wanted to, I could build another one that ran a pair of 6v6 output tubes, and it would sound very similar. The difference, however, would be in how the output section saturates and responds to being saturated. My personal preference, by far, happens to be el34 (6ca7), although I'm also fine with the a 2xel84 (6bq5) output, even though the low end is a bit lacking in comparison, to my ears.

 

So, how does one boil that into a sound bite that someone like you can take and use as a basis for a buying decision? Me simply saying that one tube sounds like this and the other tube sounds like that is sort of useless, in terms of viable information, imo.

 

Btw, the Cannibis Rex speaks are nice. I tried one out in a blues jr., and instantly found it to be perfect for that amp. I didn't so much care for it with my Marshally amps, however. It's got a "softness" to it that seemed to work really well with the stiff Bjr, but not so well with saturated marshally amps. If you've got an amp that's fairly stiff, I think it's a great choice.

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I've said the same thing in both comments. The first one was far more direct and efficient.

Indeed !!! I do have to say there are some really knowledgeable folks here in this nice' date=' low key amp forum - I see them over at sewatt as well, although I've yet to post there or start modding yet[crying']. Sewatt is an amazing wealth of info (well, actually, all of the related forums, but I go to sewatt for the VJ info - all good stuff, and y'all are patient with any and all noob questions there.... peace_sign_by_catluvr2.gif

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I

Btw' date=' the Cannibis Rex speaks are nice. I tried one out in a blues jr., and instantly found it to be perfect for that amp. I didn't so much care for it with my Marshally amps, however. It's got a "softness" to it that seemed to work really well with the stiff Bjr, but not so well with saturated marshally amps. If you've got an amp that's fairly stiff, I think it's a great choice. [/quote']

 

 

Thanks m! For now I'm kind of liking the tightness of the 10s. They're the Peavey Scorpions. I am curious as to how the amp will sound with the 12" CRs. Unfortunately my shop (a well disguised garage) is not heated so working out there is somewhat less than pleasurable and wood glue doesn't work at these temperatures.

 

When I tried out the amp at banjo shack I had them plug it in to a 2x12 Egnater cab and it sounded really good. Enough so that I decided to buy the amp. The amp did sound slightly more loose than does now but I attributed that to the Egnater speakers being new and not broken in. The 10s are very well broken in as they did PA duty about 20 years ago.

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"Not only are tone preferences a purely subjective, highly personal matter, but it's really not all that viable to make generalized statements about a given power tube, in terms of tone, since overall amp design has a tremendous amount to do with how an amp's tone is perceived. That el84 that Vox used can also sound like a Marshall. That 6v6 that Fender used can too. "

 

+1 I was kinda trying to say the same thing! You often hear words like chimey used to describe el-84's but put em in the right 18watt design and they will out plexi a plexi too!:)

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ok another question to kinda go along with this...... witch power tube is more reliable or last longer?....or is there even such a comparison?

 

Again that has a lot to do with the amp........hot or cold bias and a whole mess of variables. Typically most decent output tubes will last 6 months to a year (or longer)depending on how much use they get.

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Yes, it's about a number of variables, including bias, output load, running volume, NOS v new production tubes...

 

There's no definitive answer as to how long an output tube lasts, except that it lasts until it's worn out. And, unless it shorts or gasses out completely, you don't know that unless you have it thoroughly tested, until your ears get very used to what new vs. worn tubes SOUND and FEEL like.

 

You'll always see comments about vintage amps that go "Those NOS RCA tubes lasted 50 years and were still going strong!" Utterly meaningless comment. Not only do we not know how many hours those tubes were actually run, we also don't have a clue as to how hard they were run.

 

Along with that meaningless comment, you'll often see something like "WOW! These XYZ brand tubes are the GREATEST! They made my '65 Fender COME ALIVE like NEVER BEFORE! I've had this amp for 10 years, and it's NEVER sounded this good! Thank you brand XYZ, for making such an incredible tube!"

 

Anybody wanna venture a guess as to where the NOS tubes replaced measured, if they were put on the Hickock?

 

The thing is, until you get VERY familiar with how you amp sounds and feels when it's 100% up to snuff and biased for maximum performance, you simply will not hear your tubes wear out, because it happens very gradually. So gradually that your ears cannot perceive it. What you lose initially is the high end sizzle and some harmonic "swirl" content. Soon after that, the low end gets mushy and inarticulate.

 

BUT, this is SO subtle that unless you really KNOW your amp(s), you simply will not know when the tubes are going south, and you can easily be one of those guys who runs them completely into the ground, until they sound like absolute crapola, and even THEN, you won't KNOW that it's the tubes! If you're like most players, you'll simply assume that the "amp has gotten old" and that it's "time to trade 'er in."

 

A good rule of thumb, if you're gigging heavily, is to assume that they'll be dead after 6 months, if you're gigging new production tubes, and about 1-2 years if you're gigging NOS. Just make sure you carry a spare set that's matched with the set that the amp bias has been set to, and swap them after 6 months. You'll know immediately whether or not the others were worn, because the new ones will sound MUCH more crisp and punchy.

 

This all speaks to the immeasurable value of a qualified tech, for those of us who gig frequently. A good working relationship with a good amp tech is absolutely essential, to get the most out of any tube amp, and, in essence, your TONE. Your tech, if treated right ($$ talks), will NEVER let you walk into a gig with a sub-par amp, and will NEVER lead you astray. The few great ones that remain are worth their weight in gold, and yet they continue to work for next to nothing. Know them, treat them right, be honest with them, open up to them, and they will reward you in ways that you will forever appreciate and praise.

 

My thanks go to my friend and amp whisperer, Ed. You da man. MY secret weapon.

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M-theory, your last post about not realizing when a tube is going South hit home. I guess it's like taking a shower. At first, the water feels scalding and you turn it down. Later, you crank it up a little at a time until you turn red.

 

The thought hit me that there are no drug store tube testers nowadays. Have you ever seen a tube tester advertised anywhere for a reasonable price? At least that would test the output levels. Testing the efficiency periodically would clue you in to the tube's condition even if it didn't measure frequency response.

 

EDIT: I guess the best method is still to swap new tubes and listen to the difference, as you said, M-theory! The following link provides more than you ever would want to know about testing tubes.

 

http://www.tone-lizard.com/Tube_Testers.html

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ok well my ears are better than yours so I can here everything, every little thing,My tubes talk to me I have almost super human hearing so what do you think about that, I even know what your amp sounds like when its 100%...wana know why......because I could here it from here yes it was just a faint little sounds but you need to turn your mids up and that will clear everthing right up ( this is just a joke...)

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I have old ears that are trained to hear only what I want to hear (ask my wife). 20 years of playing club gigs and 36 years of working in print shops and computer rooms have affected my high end hearing (high speed electronic production printer repair tech).

 

As long as my sound is good to me, it's fine. I tend to roll off the tone control on the guitar toward the bottom anyway, so I'm in the meaty range of tone. My choice for good tone is one that sounds like Warren Haynes. As long as my tubes are good enough to produce that "right on the edge" overdrive, I'm good.

 

I do need to buy a set of 6V6s to carry in my gig bag. I have a 12ax7 in there, but no power tubes. One day I will probably need them. Make that a definite probably.

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