atfab Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Hi All! New here! I got Japanese Texan FT 160 Texan-12 In rough shape. We can't find a serial # but most of the local shops and I believe it is a mid seventies model. The Epiphone label inside had nothing on the top "style" line, Epiphone FT-160 on the second line and Texan-12 on the third line It has a badly cut, replacement nut and needs a new saddle. The bridge adjusters are missing and the holes for the adjusters look damaged. I have the metal part of the bridge shimmed up and have done a slight neck adjustment. It's playable but I won't do any more with out some new parts. This thing is a cannon and I got quite a few complments at the local open mic. A while back I emailed Gibson customer service about repair/replacement parts but never got a reply. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeper Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I would replace the entire bridge, and do away with that adjustable crap. I don't think you'll get any help from gibby on replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyNJ Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Hi Atfab, I have a FT-165 Bard 12. I recently had a bone nut and saddle installed. My guitar guy suggested the same - get rid of the metal adjustment contraption and he put in a double wide saddle. I'm happy with the results and my guitar guy said it sounds great and would make a excellent studio guitar (I have to take his word, I'm new at the guitar)...the Bard is not very loud on its own. Prior New Saddle Full View Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 Thanks guys, This old monster has been thru the mill. Dinged up and then some. I wouldn't have picked it up except for the fact it still sounds good. None of my local shops want to put the time in and to be honest, my old lady would have a fit if I spent more than $100 I paid for it. I have a block of teak, maybe I'll make my own wide saddle, But I'm not up to cutting a new nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smips65 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I just finished making some repairs to an old lady myself, The nut blanks don't really cost that much, like 4 bucks at my local GC filing and cutting, just take your time. And, yeah, like Musikron suggested, circular file bucket for all that adjustable stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 I suppose I couldn't do a worse job on the nut. I also have to rummage thru the supplies for my other hobby, knife making. I think I have some exotic tropical hardwoods in there. What do you think of a matching nut and saddle? I saw a few Texan 12s on Flea Bay, might find another beater with the parts I need also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I suppose I couldn't do a worse job on the nut. I also have to rummage thru the supplies for my other hobby' date=' knife making. I think I have some exotic tropical hardwoods in there. What do you think of a matching nut and saddle? I saw a few Texan 12s on Flea Bay, might find another beater with the parts I need also. [/quote'] Shucks if you are into making knives, you should be able to figure out the intricacies of guitar repair. Visit Frets.com. Old Frank Ford will tell you all about making nuts and saddles... and then some. Saddles are pretty much a no brainer. However, filing nut slots need fairly exacting geometry. However, if your 12 has a zero fret, a fret almost up against the nut, then that makes things easier. Instead of bearing directly off the nut, the strings bear off the zero fret before making a bee line for the saddle. All the nut does is hold them apart. Generally speaking, for aesthetics sake, nuts and saddles should be made from similarly colored materials. If you don't care about aesthetics, experiment to see what works best. Traditionally, bone is said to make the best nuts and saddles. I've often thought that antler would make a good nut / saddle, since antlers are essentially bone. Since you make knives, you may have some antler tines laying around.. give it a shot. I've also heard antler makes a mighty fine pick, Cattle horn too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 Shucks if you are into making knives, you should be able to figure out the intricacies of guitar repair. Visit Frets.com. Old Frank Ford will tell you all about making nuts and saddles... and then some. Saddles are pretty much a no brainer. However, filing nut slots need fairly exacting geometry. However, if your 12 has a zero fret, a fret almost up against the nut, then that makes things easier. Instead of bearing directly off the nut, the strings bear off the zero fret before making a bee line for the saddle. All the nut does is hold them apart. Yes, You are right. I just don't seem to be as good with wood as I am with metal. Also thanks for the link, great stuff! I found a piece of a tropical hardwood that is a red'ish brown, I don't recall what it's called. I used to belong to a knife makers club and we were always swapping stuff. It's harder than teak and as hard as I can mark it with my very thick thumb nail, I can "erase" the mark by just rubbing it with my finger. It smells somewhat like walnut. I just cut off a slice to try my hand at making a saddle and nut. My issue with the existing nut is that there is a larger gap between the 3rd and 4th pairs. Yes it has a zero fret. What the heck, it can't be that hard to do and the wood was free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Cat Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 A wooden nut and saddle? Let us know how that works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 I figure it's at worst, good practice for making something better. But why not, I put ebony pins on my Dean and it improved it's clarity and overtones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Of course the lower courses (pairs of strings) are farther apart. They are bigger around to begin with and to keep the same relative geometry, they necessarily have to be a smidge farther apart. Use your old nut as a pattern. No reason wood cannot be used. Is it normally done? Not really, but there's always a first time. Again, with a zero fret, the nut has less affect on tone than a non-zero fret guit tar. On a zero fret, the vibrations get transmitted to the fretboard via the steel fret, not the nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 TommyK, Yes I understand some of the spacing considerations, I have had and played 12 strings before. This nut has a very wide gap between the 3rd and 4th pairs and crowding the two sides (it takes a few moments to adjust to it) and they cut the slots to aim toward the tuners, but missed by quite a bit, making the strings bind slightly in the nut. I relived some of the slots on the head side and it tunes better but that gap in the center throws me off as it spreads less then the others going up the neck, as the pairs spread out. It's enough to make me miss fret and buzz those center pairs sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 OK, I know it's not an Epi but here is an example of my attempts to me a musician. After a good musician friend, David Little Eagle, prodded me to do this, I was unfortunate to be there when a local video nut was recording the open mic at the Towne Crier Cafe in Pawling, NY. This place has a very good reputation for attracting great acts and critical audiences. The lyrics are from a friend, Claudia Mace, my tune, and my first solo outing in almost 20 years. That is my Dean Tradition 2. To say the least, I was nervious and made some mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Back to the nut, The Texan 12's, not me. I found a good sized photo of a proper vintage Texan 12 head on line. I copied it and blew it up slighly and it exactly matchs the size of mine. Now I have a better idea and a "blueprint" to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 YAHOO! By carefully measuring the enlarged photo and what little of the existing nut is right, I found a Tusq nut that is correct for my Texan 12. With shipping, $15.60. Here is the link http://www.graphtech.com/product-115-2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 Well I have made a wide saddle for the beast, it's a little tall, on purpose. I'll get to fine tuning it later when I get the nut. I just domed it for now. The old one was notched real bad. and the tone was loud and some what harsh, especially when using a pick. I just could not wait, so I tossed it in and tuned it up to see how it sounds. Well to be honest I do believe the tone is slighly mellower, in a good way. eaiser to finger pick and still has that nice jangle, with out the sharp edge. Still loud with a pick but the clean tone is still there. I will need to file in some steps, like the old one to make the pairs equal length and duplicate the compensation. So far no indication of notching the wood. Getting rid of the old metal and plastic parts have got me hyped, thank you for all for that suggestion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 Tale Of the Saddle, I filed in the steps and improved the intonation and the B compensation. I used a dial caliper and duplicated the measurements from the front edge of the bridge. Still a little sharp at the 12th fret. With the wider saddle, I have some more room to clean this up. I slightly over did lowering it but real close. I also saw some notching after playing it for a while, so I just ordered a Tusq blank (Heck, if it's good enough for Taylor, why not me?). I'll continue fooling with the wood saddle to fine tune so I have a good example to work from. Thanks again for all the help and encouragement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 I am Hyped, But need an opinion. I played this thing some more with the wood saddle and the action is better and eaiser to play in general. One thing I still noticed was the lack of response on the lowest octive strings. Remember I used the existing saddle for reference and it might also be a non-stock part. Those strings are shaded by the wound strings and it takes some serious pick pressure to make them sound. Almost no sound from them when finger picking. I think what the heck, I detuned the 4 wound main strings and lowered their saddle heights by about 2/3 their diameter. I cant believe the difference, easier to strum and finger picking sounds like everyone is contributing. So the question is, is this an acceptable condition if I can still get the intonation/action good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeper Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Is what an acceptable condition? I don't follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 Thanks, Lowering the 4 main strings at the bridge for better access to the octive ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeper Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Do what you gotta do to make it play like you want. Hows the wooden saddle holding up? Hows it sound, dark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 Yea, as I look at the old saddle more, the more I believe it is a 6 sting replacement. I don't believe it came with a compensated one from the factory. I posted before, the mystery wood actually mellowed it out some but improved the overall balance. After playing it for an hour or so, I losend some strings and noticed some notching, I ordered a Tusq 1/4" slab to make a better one. Maybe some ebony pins too. To be honest, I paid $100 for this thing, knowing it needed work. The back at the lower bout is separated and needs regluing also. Keeping it in the case with a humidifier and that has closed up, so it's time. I missed my cheap old Ovation 12 and I felt this had a lot more vibe, warts and all. Over all I am happy with the progress I have made so far. I used it at an open mic a while back and got lots of compliments on the sound. I think it will be better when I'm done repairing it. I don't think I will refinish it, it looks old and beat up, like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atfab Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 Results! I finally got the Tusk nut and saddle installed. I also had to adjust the neck. I took my time and did several small adjustments to "sneak up" on the final dimentions. The sound was much improved with the old strings, clearer sound and better balance. I have a nice action now and it is much easier to play. I put on a set of Elixir, light gauge nanowebs, real bright and clean. At the next string change, I'll put a little more compensation on the B strings, it's real close now. Thank you all for your help, I could not have done this without your advise and encouragement. Next project, the Winston, needs a saddle and nut to fix the action, non-adjustable neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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