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Running before you can walk


wrighty3693

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It seems a friend of mine who was now spent more than £1000 pound on guitars when he can barely play has decided he wants to build one before he can play one. To me this seems to me as if it will make him not want to play the guitar and more likely build them which defeats the object of being a "Guitarist".

 

I would like to know some other peoples views on building guitars and not being able to play them.

 

Thanks

 

Wrighty2012

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The story told is that Epaminondas Stathopoulo, AKA Epi, the very founder of the Epiphone guitar making concern (his father made other types of stringed instruments) and true father of Epiphone, did not play guitar other than in the most rudimentary fashion. Yet he was the driving force and true artisan in guitar making back in the 30's. He ran the factory, but he knew how to make a great guitar. Many, many luthiers are not particularly good guitarists. And everybody sucked once on the guitar. Some of us still do[biggrin] !

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:-k

I could easily be accused of buying things that need repairs I'm underqualified to perform.

 

Hehe. i have a knack for that as well.

 

 

My thoughts are if he knows enough about what needs to go into a guitar - even the subtle things like how it should feel and sound nuances, then sure. Go for it. I think that hes going to spend just as much time learning the intricacies of building a guitar as we would playing one though. If he's looking to get into this as an easier alternative to learning to play just so he can be 'involved' in guitars, I think he may be in for a little shock.

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There's a lot of talented folks in the music industries that don't play or don't play much/well, (Leo, Anastasios, Ted McCarty etc.) and that's OK. There's lots of room for all kinds of geniuses and the guy may just find that he loves his guitars so much that he plays it until he's decent at it. I'd encourage him in whatever way possible.

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It seems a friend of mine who was now spent more than £1000 pound on guitars when he can barely play has decided he wants to build one before he can play one. To me this seems to me as if it will make him not want to play the guitar and more likely build them which defeats the object of being a "Guitarist".

 

I would like to know some other peoples views on building guitars and not being able to play them.

 

Thanks

 

Wrighty2012

 

Two thoughts:

 

1./ If your friend is seriously interested in being a musician and has spent "more than £1000 on guitars", then he's a total idiot. He could have spent £200 on a decent Squier / Epiphone / Ibanez / Whatever; then taken some lessons; and be far more advanced in terms of his musical journey.

 

2./ If your friend is seriously interested in being a luthier and has spent "more than £1000 on guitars", then good luck to him. He should now know how Fender-style guitars and Gibson-style guitars are built. If he has good carpentry skills (or, better still, training as a cabinet maker) he should now be ready to make some excellent prototypes.

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Leave the poor guy alone! So he can't play worth a damn - doesn't matter. We are lucky enough to realise that guitars are art in their own right. I will never be able to play like Page or Slash does that mean I have to return my LP, I can't see myself outselling Mcartney so I guess my AC30 will have to go as well.

Guitars are art, aspirational, beautiful, soulful and emotional - all things a non player can appreciate. As guitar players we can take them to the next level, a physical connection to the creation of music/sound/art. If we are fortunate enough to have an audience then we find another level.

Friends lets not forget we warmly welcome all here - this marks us out from other forums and long may it continue.

 

As usual just my own opinion (may be wrong but it is mine).

7C

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I don't hide anything to my girlfriend when I buy one more guitar - though sometimes I really feel I should. It happens to be the best solution in the end. She always says: "that's your money honey, buy the toys you want." (and she always find an secret effective solution to make me feel we should have go on week end instead)

I won't blame any guy for buying anything he wants cause I feel it's none of my business!

 

And if he wants to learn how it is made, I don't think it's such a bad idea to take example from good guitars!

And finally it's not a matter of run before walk, but I think it's more something like, walking in a pair of italian hand-made shoes. [thumbup]

That said, it's my point of view.

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FWIW, if that's what he has his heart set on doing, then all the more power to him![thumbup] I do think, however, that only a MUSICIAN (guitar player) can really appreciate all of the subtleties, nuances and idiocyncracies :-s of a fine guitar. These things should be appreciated and considered by the luthier so that the final product is more than just a nice looking piece of furniture.

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There are folks out there who like being involved with guitars but don't have the dedication to learn to play well. If they have plenty of money they will buy themselves nice guitars. They like to talk about guitars, they like to tell other people they are a guitarist, they may genuinely enjoy tinkering with guitars. But they are too lazy to get past first base as players. It's a pity that there are more dedicated people out there who can't afford those nice guitars.

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Leave the poor guy alone! So he can't play worth a damn - doesn't matter. We are lucky enough to realise that guitars are art in their own right.

Guitars are art' date=' aspirational, beautiful, soulful and emotional - all things a non player can appreciate. As guitar players we can take them to the next level, a physical connection to the creation of music/sound/art. If we are fortunate enough to have an audience then we find another level.

Friends lets not forget we warmly welcome all here - this marks us out from other forums and long may it continue.

 

As usual just my own opinion (may be wrong but it is mine).

7C[/quote']

 

I'd say this time your opinion is "crack on" the mark..........well said 7C, well said!

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Wrighty has your friend got the following:

 

1) 8 fingers and 2 thumbs of adequate length.

 

2) average or above intelligence. (besides your opinions of his purchasing habits)

 

3) a modicum of manual dexterity

 

4) access to the internet

 

5) nous to search youtube for beginner guitar tutorials.

 

If your friend has the above 5 pre-requisites, let the poor man be.

 

I started my adventure with electric guitars about August 2009 prior I have had a EKO Ranger 6 for past 20 years...it has followed me on my travels with work, Liverpool to Brussels to Paris to Cologne to Copenhagen to Stockholm because of work I never got past knowing enough chords to play a dozen of my fave Morrison, Dylan, Hendrix, Motown tunes.

 

A guy also showed me a blues scale when I was at university, I could play a little lead over stuff I listened to but straight up and down, you know the type....:-).

 

None of this great, but gave me a lot of fun.

 

I now have a lot of time on my hands and really want to knuckle down.

 

So I told my brother he could have my EKO Ranger 6 he always wanted that guitar.

 

I first bought a El Torro electric guitar kit with practice amp second hand from the Swedish e-bay Blocket for around 600sek, $80.....had a lot of fun with that, but well I am sure you can imagine what you get in those kits, and it was just not giving me any inspiration or the feel I wanted.

 

So I did a little research and came to the conclusion the guitar I really wanted was a 1960 Thinline Epiphone Zephyr......(would something else suffice, of course, but that is what I desired, some desires should be fulfilled if you have the means to fulfill them and if it hurts no one else, or makes them go short).

 

Thinline Zephyrs do not crop up so often, but what did crop up was a second hand Joe Pass Emperor for 2/3 of the price of a new one.

 

I bought a budget second hand Peavey Valveking 112 tube amp and it now felt like I had a decent guitar.

 

I had problems with the electrics of the JP so spent the money I had saved on buying a new JP to modify it, then I had a real fine guitar.

 

Then, for nothing other than, total unadulterated commitment to my serious intent with my guitar quest, I bought a vintage Levin acoustic and two Sheratons for which I have "grand" plans.

 

In all honestly my JP, is all the guitar I need given my ability.

 

But like your friend, through twiddling and modding and researching and learning modest Luthier skills, I have learned so much about the history of guitars and guitars in general, I am having a ball.

 

3 of my guitars and possibly a future 4th are total luxury.

 

Given my situation, age, means, etc, I think I deserve to indulge my desires a little, we only live once and one never knows what lies around the corner...

 

Total expenditure on my guitar quest has been kept down by the fact I only buy second hand.

 

My son in law, a fanatical fisherman, has paid more for fishing rods than I have paid for my guitars.

 

My playing is improving everyday and as an ex college lecturer I have devised a learning plan for myself and I have the following:

 

1) 8 fingers and 2 thumbs of adequate length.

 

2) average or above intelligence.

 

3) a modicum of manual dexterity

 

4) access to the internet

 

5) Nous to search youtube for beginner, intermediate, guitar tutorials.

 

Wrighty "encourage" your friend as long as the money he is spending is spare and no one is going hungry it is his call.

 

Let it be....

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I started playing/tinkering with guitar about two and half years ago. I spent all but the last 2 months completely failing to learn much about how to play, at which point I managed to find time in my schedule to start some lessons, and now things are really starting to come together for me. Before the lessons, I managed to aquire via purchase or trade 7 electric guitars, 2 acoustics, an electric bass, and a mandolin. Most of those are now once again gone, either sold or traded, down to some things that I play now, most of which will probably be traded or sold off again before I land on something that will be with me forever. Playing with all those different guitars allowed me to find out what I liked, didn't like, and actually changed my appreciation for different types of music to a certain degree and widened my horizons, not to mention keeping me interested until I could afford the investment in time it takes to learn to play. I am a technically minded person, with a career in technology, and with the way my mind works, I need to know more about the tool that the guitar is, and not just the sound that I can create from it.

 

My point is, everyone takes a different route on their musical journey, and so long as your friend actually sticks with it and learns to play, in 30 years, will either of you care how he got started?

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Well, in all honesty, I'm not much of a guitar player. And I never will be. I dont have much talent for it and I am too old to spend a life time trying. I barely know anything about musical theory and scales (well I can play the blues scale...) and so on.

 

But I do have money enough to buy some guitars for no other reason than being fun things to have. I've spent some money so far and wil spend some more. And in a part it is kind of a coleectors thing. I want a SG (got one) and a LP guitar (getting one in a few months). Probably a strat eventually (or maybe a tele). And one of these days something like a Sheraton. Not that I need them or even would be able to play them very good. But becasue I would enjoy giving them a home here. Playing them at times becasue they all sound different and have their own personality.

 

Maybe your friend simply has a bigger interest for guitars than he has for the music. I undertand in your point of vies it is all a shame. You are probably interested in the music and see the guitar as a tool for it. You friend, and me, looks at the guitar itself as the goal and music as something for the guitar and me to do together when we want to spend some time.

 

Contrary to most here, i ahve never played in a band. Never will. Never played with anyone, nor for anyone. And most likely never will. I play by myself just for fun and too see how well I can improve, without having any particualar haste to achive awesomeness as a guitar player.

 

But I can't help myself from looking at my next investment for a guitar..... to get that collection nice and complete (if it ever gets complete).

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Ii have never played in a band. Never will. Never played with anyone' date=' nor for anyone. And most likely never will. I play by myself just for fun and too see how well I can improve, without having any particualar haste to achive awesomeness as a guitar player.

 

But I can't help myself from looking at my next investment for a guitar..... to get that collection nice and complete (if it ever gets complete).[/quote']

 

 

 

Well said, echos my sentiments very well.

 

Also 7C comments very good.

 

 

This is an interesting thread, as it has bought out some of the deeper passions in some of us.

 

I share a similar history with JoeSamick, owned a junkie Hondo II for years, until I too got serious, and again, like Joe, bought a Joe Pass. Didn't fit the bill, so it's long gone with a host of others. And that is part of this process. We grow, change, try other things, until we find what we're looking for.

 

 

A collection....

A sound....

A bond with an instument that lifts us up higher, to be something we were not before.

 

 

Doesn't really matter the cost, it's priceless in it's own way.....

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We grow' date=' change, try other things, until we find what we're looking for. [/quote']

 

And to my mind that's part of the beauty of Epiphone. For example: a Dot gets you that 335 vibe. If you find that the 335 vibe ain't doing it for you any more, it's much less painful to your wallet to part with an Epiphone Dot than a Gibson ES-335. Also, I am always amazed at the range Epiphone covers. Fancy a vintage-style jazz box - then how's about a Zephyr? In the market for something that screams rock? - then try a G-400 Prophecy. Something for everyone, at realistic prices.

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