Stripped 6832 neck pics

[brianh]

Hi all,

 

Decided to renovate the 6832 I got off Craigslist last year, including installing a Bridge Doctor to offset belly bulge, repairing a separating bridge and installing new tuners, nut, saddle and pegs. While I had the guitar apart, decided to fill the old tuner holes and refinish the neck. I got the old poly off the back of the neck with a heat gun and scraper then gave it a light sanding and steel wool treatment. The neck appears to be unmatched maple, with a center laminate stripe and maple headstock wings. Very thin and strong, here are the pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason I think it's maple (as opposed to mahogany) is because the grain is tight and closed, and it's relatively light (1.46 lbs.) The 1970 Epi catalog price list says the 6832 has a solid spruce top and rosewood sides, but no info about the neck wood.

 

I'm thinking I'll just refinish with tongue oil, I like the feel of necks done that way. But I also have some Stew Mac clear lacquer I could use. More pics to follow when the hardware comes in. So far have spent more on hardware and tools than I paid for the guitar...

[TommyK]

Wow

 

Seems a shame they covered the grain, albeit unmatched, with a heavy stain.

 

It could be maple. I'm thinking poplar. Although, those a normally species of wood available from trees of the Americas... It's probably some maple / poplar like tree from the orient, Indonesia or other Pac-Rim country.

 

By all means use a transparent finish. Absolutely stunning.

 

The thin center stripe is quite unusual. Seems to be an unnecessary expensive beauty feature for this low dollar guitar. I wonder why they did that?

 

Keep the pics coming.

[brianh]

It's funny about low end guitars - in the 70's and some of the 80's a cheap guitar was still built by hand using traditional techniques. They used cheap (but solid) hardwood, less expensive servicable parts, poly finisihes, and cheap Japanese labor. Even this 6832 that sold for $105 in 1970 had a solid spruce top and rosewood sides and back.

 

Nowadays Japanese labor is very expensive and revered, and the only "cheap" hardwood is CNC-cut plywood. And these days the parts are so cheap they have to be replaced almost immediately.

 

One thing that's the same - poly finishes. If you can spray a guitar and pack it the same day, it doesn't get faster or easier than that. Except maybe if you can sell a bare wood guitar. Or solid plastic. Maybe they'll start making guitars out of Pergo flooring - particle board with a photo-flame layer under poly.

 

Oh that's right, they already do....

[atfab]

It's funny about low end guitars - in the 70's and some of the 80's a cheap guitar was still built by hand using traditional techniques. They used cheap (but solid) hardwood, less expensive servicable parts, poly finisihes, and cheap Japanese labor. Even this 6832 that sold for $105 in 1970 had a solid spruce top and rosewood sides and back.

 

I agree, even my Winston, $39.95, plywood Japanese boat paddle still has a flat top and bridge. A new nut and saddle to fix the action and it should be at least playable.

[Vic Flick]

The thin center stripe is quite unusual. Seems to be an unnecessary expensive beauty feature for this low dollar guitar. I wonder why they did that?

 

Multi piece necks were SOP on Matsumoku made guitars. Guilds and Gretsches (and many others) used the same technique:

 

Early '50s Guild Aristocrat

The idea is that a piece of wood will warp in it's weakest spot, so if you attach two different pieces of wood together, there won't be a weak spot because one piece will stabilize the other. The reason for the center stripe is to include a different kind of wood to stabilize it even more. Different kinds of wood react different to the elements, so it acts as an anchor for the two halves of the neck.

[TommyK]

Multi piece necks were SOP on Matsumoku made guitars. Guilds and Gretsches (and many others) used the same technique:

 

Early '50s Guild Aristocrat

The idea is that a piece of wood will warp in it's weakest spot' date=' so if you attach two different pieces of wood together, there won't be a weak spot because one piece will stabilize the other. The reason for the center stripe is to include a different kind of wood to stabilize it even more. Different kinds of wood react different to the elements, so it acts as an anchor for the two halves of the neck.[/quote']

 

Thanks for the educate Jerrymac. I had thought skunk stripes on necks were just for bling. I can see, now, how they can strengthen the whole assembly.

[Vic Flick]

Thanks for the educate Jerrymac. I had thought skunk stripes on necks were just for bling. I can see' date=' now, how they can strengthen the whole assembly. [/quote']

 

Any time.

 

One other point since you mentioned skunk stripe. On a one piece maple Fender neck, the truss rod is inserted through the back of the neck and the dark piece of wood covers the channel they route for the truss rod. A Fender neck with a Rosewood fretboard doesn't need the skunk stripe, the channel is routed on the top of the neck and is covered by the fretboard.

[brianh]

Despite record snowfall, USPS delivered a StewMac order today, including the Grover 18:1 tuners for the 6832. Wasted no time performing a temporary install before finishing the neck:

 

 

 

Question: Should I leave the neck natural or stain it to come closer to the rosewood back and sides?

[TommyK]

Now that you have this much apart, you might want to consider a new zero fret. It's badly grooved. Get a piece of the tallest fret you can lay your hands on. This will give you enough height that new frets at 1-4 have enough clearance to avoid having to 'mill' them to within an inch of their lives as mine was from the factory.

[brianh]

Good idea, thanks for the advice TK.

[gearhead]

So Brian, did you ever get this finished? I bought one of the 6832's off Ebay for like $40, all original with the strange shaped tuners etc, and gave to my now ex-girl for her birthday. Actually a nice sounding guitar. Post some finish photos if you have any, please?

[brianh]

So Brian' date=' did you ever get this finished? I bought one of the 6832's off Ebay for like $40, all original with the strange shaped tuners etc, and gave to my now ex-girl for her birthday. Actually a nice sounding guitar. Post some finish photos if you have any, please?

[/quote']

Yes, just need to put the TRC and neck covers back on. Been swamped, will post pics ASAP....

[brianh]

Long overdue update. This was the first Epiphone I bought on advice from the forum back in December of '08:

 

 

It was $145 and I had no idea what I was doing, but it didn't seem like too much of a risk. The buyer told me the bridge was lifting, but I didn't know what that meant in terms of repair, and didn't care, figured it was a surmountable challenge, just needed to be reglued. Also, the original tuners - while they looked nice - were lousy at holding pitch:

 

Lastly, the poly finish on the neck felt sticky. So I bought some clamps for Stew Mac and tried to reglue the bridge, but it just popped up again:

 

 

A few months ago, a buddy of mine took a look at the bridge issue and pointed out that the guitar suffered from "belly bulge" and recommend the JLD Bridge Doctor, that cantilevers the bridge inside the guitar and couples it to the tail block:

 

Before:

 

 

After:

 

 

So I installed the device and reglued the bridge. That solved two problems - the belly bulge and the lifting bridge. here's a pic of it inside the guitar:

 

 

And the bridge now holding tight after a month of string tension, no issues, and no more belly bulge:

 

 

He also recommended ditching the metal saddle support and thumbscrews to reduce weight and inertia on the bridge, so I made a new slotted saddle mount out of some scrap ebony:

 

 

In any case, I removed the neck, scraped the neck finish with a heat gun, sanded and 0000 steel-wooled, then stained it and rubbed it down with tongue oil and installed new Grover Sta-tite tuners:

 

 

I also made a new bone nut for it, although that's not all that important on a zero-fret guitar. It's got a shiny new set of CF Martin strings on it, and it sounds and plays very nicely. It's just a parlor size guitar so not a big voice, but the neck is easy, no buzzing frets and it sounds significantly better than it did before.

 

In fact I play it almost every day.

 

 

Thanks to everyone here on the forum for all the help and encouragement.

 

It was a ton of fun and very satisfying.

[brianh]

Now that you have this much apart' date=' you might want to consider a new zero fret. It's badly grooved. Get a piece of the tallest fret you can lay your hands on. This will give you enough height that new frets at 1-4 have enough clearance to avoid having to 'mill' them to within an inch of their lives as mine was from the factory.[/quote']

PS - TommyK: I don't yet have the tools to do fret work, but it's on my list. In the meantime, it's still not bad enough to cause any buzzing, so it'll have to wait until I get all the tools from Stew mac and progress a little in my shop skills...

[dhanners623]

Beautiful work! Thanks for sharing the photos.

[smips65]

 

Very nice work Brian.

 

Must admit, I took a completely different approach to the adjustable metal saddle issue on my repair project.

 

I did almost what you did, but rather made the whole insert out of ebony.

 

She rings out more than ever, with no jangling at all.

Did not have any belly bulge issues, just a loose saddle, with a horrid metal assembly.

 

 

[brianh]

Great solution Smips, I did not consider a one-piece. I wanted to get a bone saddle from Stew Mac, but they were back ordered. So I just reinstalled the old one. I'm not sure my tools or skills are up to that yet - how did you shape it?

[smips65]

I'm not sure my tools or skills are up to that yet - how did you shape it?

 

 

 

I've seen pics of your shop and projects' date=' your skills and tools are way beyond mine. This is my shaping and cutting kit.

 

There's a Rockwell Woodworking store nearby, and those wood blanks on the tray, are very reasonably priced. So that said, there weren't really any "costly mistakes" A bundle of ebony pieces that size were about 3 bucks.

 

The biggest factor is time. The ViseGrip tool, leftover from my days as a sheet metal worker was 1 essential piece, I could sit in my Lazyboy and sand and file away while watching a football game.

 

The 4% angle was a different story, had scribe lines on the top of the blank with an exactoknife, and utilizing the small grinding wheel attachment on the dremel, grind the blank down to the desired depth, the rest by hand.

 

Had to do the same with the rosewood bridge piece I'm currently working on for my Zephyr. (pictured on the tray next to the metal bridge assembly from the Aims).

 

Lotsa time and sand paper. For the finish sanding, a wood dowel, another cheap but invaluble aid, with sandpaper wrapped around to provide a rounded hard sanding surface for the sides of the saddle.

 

The most important "tool" was the set of cheaters I included in the pic, since I can't see sh!t up close.

[brianh]

Wow, that Zephyr bridge looks impressive.

 

But you're right, the limiting factor in any of this stuff is time.

 

I have one of those lighted magnifying scopes on my bench, but I'd really like to get a set of those jewler/dentist headworn magnifying glasses. They're expensive tho...

[Red 333]

Brian, so many on the forum ask how to strip poly, and you got excellent results; was it difficult? Do you think stripping the top and/or sides would be more challenging for any reason?

 

Looks nice! Good job with the lifting bridge, too. I'll keep that fix in mind.

 

Red 333

[Red 333]

 

Very nice work Brian.

 

Must admit' date=' I took a completely different approach to the adjustable metal saddle issue on my repair project [...'] made the whole insert out of ebony.

 

She rings out more than ever, with no jangling at all.

 

 

 

Looks real good, smips65. Thanks for the description of your methods, too.

 

Was ebony your first choice, or did you/would you consider bone, too, for a saddle of that size?

 

Red 333

[TommyK]

Great solution Smips' date=' I did not consider a one-piece. I wanted to get a bone saddle from Stew Mac, but they were back ordered. So I just reinstalled the old one. I'm not sure my tools or skills are up to that yet - how did you shape it? [/quote']

 

The plan is to round over the top edge so the strings bear off the saddle at a smooth single point. Possibly a hint of a peak. Check out Frets.com Frank Ford has forgotten more about guitar repair than most of us will ever know.

[brianh]

Brian' date=' so many on the forum ask how to strip poly, and you got excellent results; was it difficult? Do you think stripping the top and/or sides would be more challenging for any reason?

 

Looks nice! Good job with the lifting bridge, too. I'll keep that fix in mind.

 

Red 333[/quote']

Well, the nice thing about a bolt on, is you can work on it in a vise away from the body. I used a heat gun and scraper as I and others have done on solid body guitars, and then a little light sanding and steel wool:

 

 

 

 

I suppose you could use a heat gun on an acoustic body, and I did consider it, but was afraid the heat would also loosen the bracing and the guitar would start to fall apart. We've discussed this on a few other threads when folks have wanted to remove the poly from their Casinos and Sheris, and the general consensus is it will ruin the guitar.

 

I'd be game to try it next time I find a $20 thrift store guitar, but I like the 6832 well enough that I didn't want to risk it on that one.

 

Cheers, Brian

[smips65]

Looks real good' date=' smips65. Thanks for the description of your methods, too.

 

Was ebony your first choice, or did you/would you consider bone, too, for a saddle of that size?

 

Red 333[/quote']

 

 

Thanks Red...

 

no, I didn't consider a bone saddle that big, I don't think blanks even come that large. That said, I immediately thought of Ebony, as I indicated in the earlier post, the raw materials don't cost that much, so trial and error were uppermost in my mind as I tackled the project.

 

 

Your exactly right TommyK, slightly rounded off with a hint of peak. And when this one wears out, no prob.