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t/bird pro problem


sawdelight

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FOR Musikron and others....

Systematic abuse part 2!

 

I'll have to find a Gibson repair shop service centre in the UK?

I have taken it back to the dealer, he said their warranty does not cover fret wear! he also said that Gibson don't either?

He also said that if Gibson did do the job it would probably be with the same defective fret wire.

I appear to be caught between a rock and a hard place.

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FOR Musikron and others....

Systematic abuse part 2!

 

I'll have to find a Gibson repair shop service centre in the UK?

I have taken it back to the dealer' date=' he said their warranty does not cover fret wear! he also said that Gibson don't either?

He also said that if Gibson did do the job it would probably be with the same defective fret wire.

I appear to be caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

 

Admission of GUILT!

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I love how Gibson and the dealer are focusing on the wear and not the split. Its like they are purposely being obtuse about this situation.

 

It doesnt surprise me though. And this isnt the first time Epiphone's crappy fretwire has been brought up on this forum. There was a big debate about it last year regarding the Chinese guitars. Apparently the frets were grooving pretty deep after a week or so of play. The naysayers were trying to convince everyone that it is normal and that EVERY guitar company uses the exact same fretwire. Right. My 16 year old G310 has about the same fret wear as some of the week-old Chinese axes people were complaining about...and my 24 year-old Epiphone S-500 has very minimal fret wear, and its seen plenty of play-time. Same thing with my 1999 Kramer (made by Epiphone). I bought it used and ragged to peices with virtually ZERO fret wear. All of my guitars are Korean, BTW.

 

I guess my point is that the new Epiphones have fretwire issues and they know it. But they would rather bury thier heads in the sand and shift the blame. Their attitude seems to be that if you never played your bass, you wouldnt have this problem. But because you played your instrument causing fret wear that exposed the faulty fret wire, then its your fault. After all, Epiphone warranties dont cover fret wear.

 

Also, looking at my Epiphone EBM-5 bass (1991-Korean) I can see the seams in the fret wire. The difference is that mine never split at the seams like yours did.

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This is very disappointing, reminds me of the Toyota accelerator pedal issue - deny, deny, deny. Then get called out and profuse apologies, massive recall, etc.

 

I hope someone from Epiphone is watching this thread, because buyers are likely to run across it in web searches and avoid not just T-birds, but ALL their products like the plague.

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This is very disappointing' date=' reminds me of the Toyota accelerator pedal issue - deny, deny, deny. Then get called out and profuse apologies, massive recall, etc.

 

I hope someone from Epiphone is watching this thread, because buyers are likely to run across it in web searches and avoid not just T-birds, but ALL their products like the plague.[/quote']

 

Yeah, except that they already had one T-Bird Pro recall due to the pickups not working properly. I cant remember exactly, but it was either the two high strings or the two low strings that the PUPs werent amplifying the string vibrations. Basically, half of the pickup was dead.

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Yeah' date=' except that they already had one T-Bird Pro recall due to the pickups not working properly. I cant remember exactly, but it was either the two high strings or the two low strings that the PUPs werent amplifying the string vibrations. Basically, half of the pickup was dead. [/quote']

It was just the low B if I remember correctly. But yup, that bass is starting to look like a certified lemon.

 

The original recall thread is quoted in post #3 here: http://forums.epiphone.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=11060

 

Oh, and then there's this: http://epi.p3net.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2551

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It was just the low B if I remember correctly. But yup' date=' that bass is starting to look like a certified lemon.

 

The original recall thread is quoted in post #3 here: http://forums.epiphone.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=11060

 

Oh, and then there's this: http://epi.p3net.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2551

[/quote']

 

Ah, so it was only the 5-string versions then. I guess thats not as bad as what I had thought, but still not good. I apologize for being lazy and not looking up the thread. I thought about it, but....

 

They nipped that problem in the bud, which is good, but they seem to not want to adress this one. Hopefully, like the PUP problem, it is only a small percentage that are affected.

 

Here is a pic of my EBM fret. You can clearly see the seam, but it hasnt really split...and the amount that you can see is after 18 years of playing. Actually, for as much action as this thing has seen, the frets are in really good shape. They could use a little crowning, but they arent grooved much at all.

ebmfret.jpg

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Damn Robin, ya'll need to quit posting these trauma pics, I have a weak stomach and I think I'm getting sick!

 

But seriously, that's some bottom of the barrel fret wire there. Never should have made it out the factory like that, it should have gone right back into scrap. Probably gonna give you lead poisoning as well, be careful!

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For Musikron...

Well, the dealer said that their not liable for the fret wear and all he could do was send it back to Gibson, no refund, that's when he said if they re-fret it it prob be with the same poor quality fret wire!

Interestingly he also told me that its great value for the price with the through neck etc and one could buy three t/bird pro's for the price of a Gibson t/bird. I guess he means from the manufacturers point of view I've got a good deal so if I pay someone for a re-fret job I'm still doing well for the price.

It has occurred to me if Gibson's warranty does not cover fret wear then they can carry on using ultra cheap defective fret wire and get away with it!!

In the end has I've said already its systematic abuse, of course I fell for it!

 

ANYONE READING THIS IF YOU BUY AN EPIPHONE T/BIRD PRO BASS IT COMES WITH DEFECTIVE FRET WIRE AS STANDARD

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Damn Robin' date=' ya'll need to quit posting these trauma pics, I have a weak stomach and I think I'm getting sick!

 

But seriously, that's some bottom of the barrel fret wire there. Never should have made it out the factory like that, it should have gone right back into scrap. Probably gonna give you lead poisoning as well, be careful![/quote']

 

 

Yeah, but the difference is that mine is after almost two decades of playing without ever having one iota of fret care. And they arent even close to being as bad as that T-Bird Pro that is under a year old. It looks like the Grand Canyon in some of the T-Bird frets.

 

You're not serious about the lead poisoning thing, are you? [biggrin]

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Unlikely but maybe this fret wear problem is from a bad batch of cheap Ninja sharp-wound strings.

For anyone else new to these basses here is my story:

 

Just purchased new - sunburst Pro IV. 2009 serial number.

Out of the box- Bass was low tuned about two steps...makes sense for storage /shipping.

Zero flaws found in the finish and nice even wood grain throughout the neck and body. Frets are well done with no sharp edges. Only one high spot found - 18th fret on the D string. Easy fix.

Tuned bass up to pitch. Made minimal tweaks to the string heigth and intonation.

Put on a fresh set of new strings......same gauge, re-tuned, played for a short time.

Next morning..... I slacked the strings and gave the trussrod about 1/4 turn to take up some relief in the neck.

Another quick tweek with string heighth. The neck has been very stable with minimal relief for several days now.

The knockoff Schaller style tuners seem to hold well too.

 

My only gripe with this bass is that the circuitry is REALLY crammed into the rear cavity space. An upgrade to the pots and caps could be a real challenge !

 

My $.02

CH

Basses I have had -

Univox hollowbody

2 Gibson Rippers

RIC 4003

Ibanez EX

Spector 4

Yamaha BBN 5

Peavey fretless 4

Enjoying very much now-

Warmoth Jazz

Warmoth Jazz fretless

EPI T-Bird Pro IV

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  • 2 weeks later...

For musikron...

Latest on T/bird pro faulty fret problem.

I took the bass back to the dealer again they said "we'll have to have our Luthier who is authorized and endorsed by Gibson/Epiphone to gain an assessment of any underlying problems relating to the guitar"

So they did that and he said " its fret wear normal wear and tear, just enjoy playing the guitar and think about re-freting it in a year There's nothing I can do" To my amazement!

I've already taken it to a Luthier Who I know and he said, has you did , its faulty fret wire.

I repeat its SYSTEMATIC ABUSE!

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Take it to a luthier not involved with the store you bought it from. Open up the yellow pages or google your area. That is BS, is NOT fretwear. Find an independent authorized service center. Get them to write a written assessment of the problem for you, then fax that to Gibson customer service. This IS covered under warranty, screw what that store says and never give them your business again.

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I am no expert and not wishing to muddy the waters any, does anyone think that fret board looks a little on the rough side? I am assuming this is the new t/bird pro with neck thru construction and trick pickups?

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I was browsing the bass section of the forum specifically for input on the Epi T bird. I don't have a bass and I was thinking of buying one from MF. If it is any consolation Sawdelight your thread cost Epiphone at least one sale.

 

 

David

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I was browsing the bass section of the forum specifically for input on the Epi T bird. I don't have a bass and I was thinking of buying one from MF. If it is any consolation Sawdelight your thread cost Epiphone at least one sale.

 

Just wait until they get the problem solved. I bet it won't be an issue in 6 months.

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I'm sure they will get it worked out but I can't see waiting for six months for Epi to do what they should have done in the first place and from what I have read here so far they won't even admit there is a problem, much less address it. Life's too short and there are too many choices of good stuff out there to wait and hope. Especially for old impatient bastards like me.LOL David

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Well, I'm still trying to get my T/bird pro sorted, though Consumer rights.

I think the standard Epi t/birds are better made, unless you can get an Elitist which I would love. Course there's always Tokai, generally it seems the older ones are better. Unless of course you get a Gibson!

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For MUSIKRON and others

T/Bird pro fret debacle update.

 

Well I got a letter from the dealer following their Gibson/Epiphone endorsed Luthier assessment...He says and I quote...

 

"Although it may well be that the frets are slightly softer than some other brands,it is just normal fret ware and there is no fault with the instrument I have spoken with the customer and explained that some fret wire is harder than others (eg,Warwick using bell brass,Parker using stainless steel, etc) and there is nothing to worry about"

 

The dealer went on to say in their letter...

"On the basis of the assessment we will not be offering you a repair, re-fret, refund or replacement of the guitar as it has been found that there is no fault with the instrument"

 

So it seems that if anyone buys a Epiphone thunderbird pro iv bass from this batch made in 2009, or perhaps other batches too! the life of the fret- wire is only about four months tops, well you can still play it if you don't mind the buzzing from the frets or you could always pay extra for a re-fret on top of the £350 UK price!

 

I've got a written report from an independent Luthier who tells me that the fret wire is substandard.

I'm carrying on fighting this with the help of consumer rights

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Have you contacted Gibson directly? Do you have the equivalent to something we have here called the Better Business Bureau? They insure that when a company (in this case Epiphone) tries to pull some shady crap like this, there is someone standing up for the consumer. I would also have a lawyer draw up a letter of intent and send it to Gibson as well.

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