Broadway v. ES-175

[traveler]

Hello all. I'm a long-time lurker and infrequent poster on these forums, but this is my first new topic. Love reading this board, and pictures of everyone's collections always help justify another guitar. So I'm considering an Epi ES-175, as I love the Steve Howe sound especially, but also because it seems pretty versatile (has a solid jazz history), gets amazing reviews, and sounds like quite a bit of bang for the buck.

 

I already own a Broadway, which I've always strung with flatwounds and used whenever I get up the gumption to play a little jazz. My question is whether restringing the Broadway with roundwounds will give me a sound close to the ES-175, thus eliminating the need for the 175. No local dealers have the ES-175 to try out, so other than a few short clips on U-Tube, I haven't been able to check out the tonal pallette or the feel of the 175 and compare it to a roundwound Broadway. For what it's worth, I also have an Elitist Dot, am expecting an Elitist Casino next week, and own a Fender strat and a Gibson LP. Thanks for any musical feedback.

[Parabar]

The different scale lengths of the Broadway and ES-175 give them different sounds no matter what strings you use. The Broadway's longer scale (and larger body) give it more note definition and punch. It's top being spruce (compared to the ES-175's maple) is livelier and more resonant, so the tone is throatier.

 

I used to own a Gibson ES-175 and have played Epi 175's, currently own both a Broadway and Joe Pass Emperor II. I'd advise against buying the 175 without playing one first to see if you really like it (unless of course you're well enough off to accept the risk of not liking it and selling it at a loss). I find the Joe Pass more comfortable to play, since my hands are smallish, but I LOVE the Broadway tone.

 

BTW, a Broadway with roundwounds does great rockabilly and country tones as well as jazz, and even sounds good with a little distortion. Scotty Moore (among other early rock n' roll pioneers) played a lot of his classic parts on big-bodied jazzboxes.

[traveler]

Thanks for the thoughts, Parabar. All good points. I'm not particularly good at selling gear, but I suppose I could just return a mail-order ES-175 if it didn't work out, though that's always a hassle and not entirely free. I tried out the Joe Pass before selecting the Broadway a couple years back. I thought the Broadway had a fuller sound and fit my not-small hands better. Perhaps I will put some roundwounds on her and see how much it affects the very nice jazz sound I have dialed in with the flats and how close I can get to that Steve Howe "South Side of the Sky" sound, which I've always assumed was the 175 and can't seem to quite match even with all the gizmos I have lying on the floor between the guitar and the amp.

 

Anyone else with a thought on this? All input welcome.

[carverman]

Thanks for the thoughts' date=' Parabar. All good points. I'm not particularly good at selling gear, but I suppose I could just return a mail-order ES-175 if it didn't work out, though that's always a hassle and not entirely free. I tried out the Joe Pass before selecting the Broadway a couple years back. I thought the Broadway had a fuller sound and fit my not-small hands better. Perhaps I will put some roundwounds on her and see how much it affects the very nice jazz sound I have dialed in with the flats and how close I can get to that Steve Howe "South Side of the Sky" sound, which I've always assumed was the 175 and can't seem to quite match even with all the gizmos I have lying on the floor between the guitar and the amp.

 

Anyone else with a thought on this? All input welcome.[/quote']

 

 

I have both a Broadway and a Joe Pass. I played a $4300 Gibson ES-175 at the Gibson Memphis factory in 2007,

and other than it being a Gibson with the florentine cutaway, I really don't think there is a hell of a lot of difference

tone wise if you put Classic 57s on the EmpII/Joe Pass..but this is my opinion.

 

The Broadway having a bigger bass bout will sound a bit fuller with roundwounds. I use Fender flatwounds on

mine because I like to thumb it, like Wes did.

 

I don't think you can go wrong with the Epi ES-175..it's plywood, but so is the Gibson Es-175 and they

charge a lot more for it. You may have to change the p_ups on the Epi ES-175 to either Classic 57s,

or do like I did , and install the GFS Vintage 59s, which are pretty close to the Classic 57s tone wise.

 

You could also replace the Epi p_ups with the humbucker sized GFS Mean 90s, for some real bark to

the Epi ES-175.

[smips65]

Thanks for the thoughts' date=' Parabar. All good points. I'm not particularly good at selling gear, but I suppose I could just return a mail-order ES-175 if it didn't work out, though that's always a hassle and not entirely free. I tried out the Joe Pass before selecting the Broadway a couple years back. I thought the Broadway had a fuller sound and fit my not-small hands better. Perhaps I will put some roundwounds on her and see how much it affects the very nice jazz sound I have dialed in with the flats and how close I can get to that [u']Steve Howe [/u]"South Side of the Sky" sound, which I've always assumed was the 175 and can't seem to quite match even with all the gizmos I have lying on the floor between the guitar and the amp.

 

Anyone else with a thought on this? All input welcome.

 

 

Imitation is a wonderful thing, but keep in mind, Steve was light years ahead of most with respect to electronic tweaking of his signiture tone. No wonder he was voted top guitar player 5 straight years. Trying to buy a guitar, or effects, or both, may not ever get one all the way there...

[traveler]

Imitation is a wonderful thing' date=' but keep in mind, Steve was light years ahead of most with respect to electronic tweaking of his signiture tone. No wonder he was voted top guitar player 5 straight years. Trying to buy a guitar, or effects, or both, may not ever get one all the way there...

 

[/quote']

 

You're certainly right about getting all the way there. But while I have no illusion of playing like Steve Howe, it is fun to tweak tones to come close to hero tones. And really, there may not be any valid notion of too many guitars.

 

One other note on this topic. I finally did find an ES-175 to play at a local shop. I liked the tone and feel very much, although I didn't think that particular one was as good a product as my Broadway in terms of workmanship. Probably would be aided by a good setup, though. I didn't have the Broadway to A/B them for tone, but may go back and do so. I also made the mistake of plugging into a Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue. What an amp . . . .

[smips65]

 

Was this an Epi ES-175 or the real Gibby, that you got to try out?

 

I've played 2 Steve Howe Gibson Sig models, and found them both lacking. As you suggested, they both could have used a good set up.

 

For some reason, I've always felt that the tailpieces make a huge difference from guitar to guitar. Some give me no problems at all, and others, have to be tugged at to get everything sounding right.

[traveler]

 

Was this an Epi ES-175 or the real Gibby' date=' that you got to try out?

[/quote']

 

It was the Epi ES-175, though I'd like to compare the Gibson and see what the extra $3K is all about. Not that there's anything wrong with spending that much on one, but I probably would not do it at this point. Cheers.

[Greasy Ivan]

Hello everybody,

 

I agree with Parabar.

The ES 175 reissue is a very nice guitar and great value for its money.

But the Broadway is way more versatile (and bigger! :-) )

I've installed a bigsby and a roller bridge on mine.

You can play anything on it from Rockabilly to Blues to Jazz.

I've always used roundwound strings (.011 d'Addario).

Most of the time I don't even amplify it because the body is so big that it produces enough volume to play without an amp.

The only thing I don't like about the Broadway is the sound of the factory pick ups (humbuckers).

They sound nosy.

I've had them replace by GFS Dream 90's (humbucker sized) but I'm still not very satisfied with the sound.

So Traveler, if I was you, I would install the roundwound strings (.011 is perfect) before buying the ES 175.

 

Kind regards,

[smips65]

 

Take a look at this, with some good flats, and one of these, you won't need the ES-175 at twice the price.

 

http://forums.epiphone.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=14670

[Whirly]

traveler, I'm not sure I can add much to this discussion, but I'll try. I own an Elitist Broadway and a Gibson ES-175.

 

Broadway:

My Broadway and I have never meshed. It's an absolutely beautiful guitar. The sound, acoustically, is brittle to my ear. I'm not a fan of the Broadway tailpiece. I can't use my preferred flat-wound strings because of the length of the D. I put some D'Addario flats on tonight and played it for an hour or so trying to love it. Afterwards I played my 175 for a minute then put the Broadway away. It still doesn't make the cut.

 

ES-175:

This is the second 175 I've owned. It's cosmetic construction is inferior to my Broadway. The finish is poorly applied. I found the neck sticky if played for a while. I had to take steel wool to the neck. The nut was improperly cut as well. I would have abandoned this defective guitar except it has a lovely warm tone and excellent action. Nuanced attack and picking style create a varied range of sound I've been unable to give up.

 

I'd have to say though, with a Dot, Broadway, Casino, LP and Strat I don't see what the hurry is. Wait on the 175 until you can travel to a bigger city and try one out. Plus, I don't know what pallet the 175 can bring that you can't paint with your already impressive collection.

 

What you are missing is a tele - I'm just saying.

 

Ahh, never mind. Get the 175. I did.

[smips65]

 

Whirly...

 

Let me know if the one that doesn't make the cut is going up for sale someday, I'd be interested.

[SamBooka]

traveler' date=' I'm not sure I can add much to this discussion, but I'll try. I own an Elitist Broadway and a Gibson ES-175.

 

Broadway:

My Broadway and I have never meshed. It's an absolutely beautiful guitar. The sound, acoustically, is brittle to my ear. I'm not a fan of the Broadway tailpiece. I can't use my preferred flat-wound strings because of the length of the D. I put some D'Addario flats on tonight and played it for an hour or so trying to love it. Afterwards I played my 175 for a minute then put the Broadway away. It still doesn't make the cut.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Whirly, if they have a Home Depot in Juneau you can fix your frequenansator for about 10$

 

All you need is some 1/8 brass rod (3$)and I think a No6 die (thing for threading rod). 5$

 

This assumes you already have a hacksaw and a bench vice. I made a longer bass fork (about an inch longer) to get rid of some of the overtones. The strings fit now two. I replaced the treble fork to be consistent and because I had enough rod left over.

 

For 10$ and 30 min work I think it is worth a try. A little brasso at the end and from 4 ft away you cant tell the difference.

[traveler]

Greasy Ivan, thanks for the input. I do plan on trying out some roundwounds on the Broadway just to see what I get. Your trem setup looks nice but not what I want out of this guitar. Looking for a more traditional jazzy setup, not really into rockabilly. Would use the 175 for a greater variety of things.

 

Smips65, I checked out those videos and the pups sound nice, but I don't think I want to go that route with the B'way.

 

Whirly, I would love a tele. It's on the list, but not this year. I'm still waiting on the Elitist Casino (backordered) but hope to get one before they're all gone. When I played the Epi 175 last week, it did have a noticeably different tone than any of my other guitars. Maybe "woody" is the right adjective, or "hoarse" in a good way. I think I want one, but I want to find a good one, so must keep looking for another example, as that one didn't quite do it for me on all fronts. Not in a hurry, though. As for the B'way, I don't use it acoustically. I just doesn't have a lot of volume with the flats. But it plays quite sweetly, and I've found the right combination of things in my signal chain to enhance it.

[Whirly]

traveler,

 

Because I've never liked my Broadway's acoustic sound, I don't normally play it at all, much less plugged in. Today I powered it up and compared it's amplified sound to five of my other guitars including my 175. It really sounded good. Surprisingly good. I could get used to this good.

 

I think "woody" is a great way to explain the 175 sound, much darker than the Broadway, my 335ish, or my older LP. There is a reason the es-175 is "THE" jazz standard. I just can't duplicate that sound with anything else.

 

Isn't the search for the perfect guitar fun? I've got ten now and there is always another I'd like to try.

[smips65]

traveler' date='

 

Because I've never liked my Broadway's acoustic sound, I don't normally play it at all, much less plugged in. Today I powered it up and compared it's amplified sound to five of my other guitars including my 175. It really sounded good. Surprisingly good. I could get used to this good.

 

[b']I think "woody" is a great way to explain the 175 sound, much darker than the Broadway, my 335ish, or my older LP. There is a reason the es-175 is "THE" jazz standard. I just can't duplicate that sound with anything else.[/b]

Isn't the search for the perfect guitar fun? I've got ten now and there is always another I'd like to try.

 

 

 

Wait until you try a Zephyr Regent, you'll never go back.

 

Glad to see your happy with the Broadway, SamB's suggestion for adding length to the tailpiece sounds like a good way to get those strings on.

 

Of course, you could always obtain an alternative tailpiece, like an ES-175 type to bring all those closer, and scrap the Freaken-sater.

 

 

Thanks to BrianH, I'm now a confirmed Jazzaholic....

[traveler]

Wait until you try a Zephyr Regent' date=' you'll never go back.

[/quote']

 

Oh no, not another choice . . . .