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Dannyboyee82

Do Epiphones hold their value?

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Just a question I thought I'd put out there.. the reason being because I just bought myself a 1966 G-400 SG in faded cherry. It appears to be the last one in the country, I'm in the UK. The only others I can find are the standard models, and one model in Natural Burst on Thomann. I was tempted to get that one for its unique look. But I thought the finish would probably be a bit inconsistent.

 

Obviously I know that in a few years I won't get what I paid for it. But I'm talking more like 30 years time. The thought of selling a guitar that I may come to love makes me shudder, but it is nice to know you have something of value. Having said that, I have just sadly let one of my very first guitars go - a 1981 Aria Pro II RS Knight Warrior - back in my metal days it was the coolest thing on earth, but now I just don't use it so I thought I'd get rid.

 

On the plus side, I used the cash to buy the 1966 SG - hopefully that will be my new love.

 

Anyone care to put in their pennies worth?

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Well, it's a nice guitar but it won't pay your pension. Look on e-bay, and you'll see plenty of good G400s and Les Pauls going for less than £200.

There are so many good, cheap guitars coming out of Asia now, including Epi, Squier, Washburn and others, that secondhand prices just seem keep falling.

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I think, in the "long run," they will..."retain" their value. Maybe, just because of inflation?

Even now, Japanese and Korean Sheratons, Riviera's and Casino's, are worth as much,

used, as they once cost, new. Probably will never have the "investment" quality, that a

good Gibson might have. Most guitars, made these days, even Gibson's, won't approach

the monetary value, of a legit '58-60 "Burst" Les Paul Standard. Those were made in very

small numbers, comparatively. Everything (except special runs or one of a kind) is too mass

produced, to be of that kind of long term worth...especially the numbers made in Asia.

 

IMHO, as always.

 

CB

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Put it this way, I paid £99 for my J&D Bros LS300 LP, it plays way better than an Epi LP, the fit and finish is also superior. While there are great guitars out there like this for a lot less money your bog standard Epiphones are never gonna go up in value.

 

Look at this LS500 for $449, these are gonna hit ebay used for around $200-$300 soon...

 

 

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

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The main rule of thumb: a used guitar is worth exactly what the buyer is willing to pay for it!

 

As CB said, rarity is a huge factor in the selling price of a "vintage" guitar. Take your imported Japanese guitars from the 60's like Teiscos, Kawais and the like. Despite being some of the coolest looking guitars, they really were, in most cases, crap instruments. Now they are going for many hundreds more than the were worth originally simply because there are not a lot of them around ... and because a lot of baby boomers that came up playing them have the income to purchase what's left.

 

Epiphone makes "evergreen" models like the G400 and their various Les Paul units by the thousands, so it's highly unlikely that they will ever grow in value ... but hold on to it long enough and who knows? A limited production Epiphone ... say that fugly Aparition, has a chance to actually become sought-after simply due to it's relative rarity. The Elitiest models that were killed by Epiphone are already showing some signs of life in the collector market ... so if you want one of those ... but it NOW, If you own one ... keep it in good shape and treat it like money in the bank!

 

A diamond is nothing but a lump of coal that was placed under extreme preasure by nature. Gold is just another metal ... relatively usless because it is so soft. Humans decide what is valuable and what is not ... and if often doesn't make a lot of sense! [confused]

 

Jim

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I think it is hard to generalise it may differ from country to country and model to model.

 

I live in Sweden bought a second hand Samick Joe Pass for 3500sek spent just under 2500sek on it and sold it a short while ago for 6000sek......It was a very nice guitar after the modifications and the guy who bought it, an experienced player in his 60's fell in love with it. Brian remerked I would not have got that money for a modded JP in the States.....maybe true but here in Sweden the economy is different....

 

I have put that money aside toward a Firebird I have my eye on...

 

I have a Sheraton I am selling and they seem to hold there value because older guys like me associate them with the blues and a lot of younger guys want to own them know because of the Kings of Leon and Oasis and so on...fashion and being in touch with the type of music you love. I bought my 89 Sheraton for 4000sek I am confident I can sell it for the same price even a little more...If the Kings of Leon bring out a good new tune....and I time it right...[confused]

 

I have just bought an Epiphone Zephyr Blues Deluxe and when I researched though not an elitist or anything like that the production was limited and there are not that many on the market, especially in my part of the world, they are Peerless made and quite stunning aesthetically, and tone wise the stock P90's hold up well (IMHO).

 

They seem keep their value at the moment.

 

http://forums.epiphone.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=14614

 

Obviously, speak to someone like Teegar about vintage Epiphones.....sheesh they can be expensive.....but so beautiful....I would love to own a 1963 Epiphone Zephyr Thinline in Natural finish.....given inflation I wonder how today's prices for that model is compared to how much they were new back in the day???

 

That is a complex question you are asking 'Do Epiphones keep their value" like what Matiac says, when you find the right guitar for you..... (in my case my 87 Sheraton which I bought for 2700sek $375 and hopefully my Zephyr Blues) they aint going anywhere, money is not the issue............it is about the bond.......and what they give you when you play...

 

but interesting what AS90 raised about the China made J&D guitars, great build quality and quality control, "it appears"..... maybe there are some lessons to learned there........ Epiphone boardroom if you are listening in......No need to cut corners.....

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The main rule of thumb: a used guitar is worth exactly what the buyer is willing to pay for it!

 

 

A diamond is nothing but a lump of coal that was placed under extreme preasure by nature. Gold is just another metal ... relatively usless because it is so soft. Humans decide what is valuable and what is not ... and if often doesn't make a lot of sense! [confused]

 

Jim

 

According to Mythbusters ("make yer own diamonds out of home ingredients" episode) ' date='they are mostly carbon.

In the end, they had to use a lot of explosive power to simulate man made diamonds and even those were

barely what you would call industrial grade. [biggrin

 

Now if someone could come up with something equivalent to the Honduras mahogany Gibson used in those

'50-'60 LPs, these would be worth a lot more in the future..but I can't see Chinese made Epiphones being worth

any more that their current value..even in the future.

 

For one thing there is no history with these asian guitars, no nostalga,

no famous players like Les Paul, Gary Moore, or any of the other well known artists) play one of these,

and these are made by the tens of thousands every year, (never mind the fakes coming out), so you

don't worry about your grandkids making a mint selling one of these things on FleaBay. [biggrin]

 

As trade-in, they are in the same league as new cars driven off the lot...

try and drive it back in and get your money back.

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Values aren't just what a price guide suggests, value is also what a particular model means to an individual person as well.

 

My very first guitar was a '61 Danelectro. The value then of a Danelectro (to me) is far greater than what the price guide says. That means I would personally be willing to pay more based on my own (sentimental) value. This transcends where a guitar may be made, what materials used, etc...

 

More to the point, I agree that if nothing else inflation will increase the value of your guitar as new prices have historically trended higher over the decades. In other words a rising tide raises all ships. But that said, there will only be one ERA like that of the '59 LP, '54 Strat, '52 Telecaster, etc...

 

I own several vintage Epiphones I have been luck enough to buy over the years because I love the way they look, feel, play and sound. While they have appreciated in value, they'll never leapfrog a Gibson or a Fender from the same ERA. But they do alright...

 

In the end, for me, I buy what makes me happy and gives me an "inner value" of satisfaction. Sometimes it's a model that broadly appeals to others too which is a plus if I ever wanted to horse trade. But I am hoarder and rarely let my gear go, despite my wife's pleas to the contrary [confused]

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value over the long run seems to me to be based on:

name on label

who made it ie: country of origin, designer, luthier, plant, et al.

year made

materials used

features

condition

provenance, ie: who owned/played it (both the actual guitar, and it's most famous proponents)

current tastes

number of examples made, and number of examples extant

 

 

and other stuff like:

 

Sometimes the red candy sells for more just because it's not blue candy.

 

Now. I can get more for my sheri than I paid for it.

Which wont happen even if that increased considerably, thank you.

 

so this end of it's value is pretty much settled.

And what I look for, when it's time for me to lay it down, is the value I prize most highly, someone who'll also keep it until they can't play..

 

The more times that happens, the better shape the guitar is in, the more it is worth.

but, being what it is by todays standards, that increase in cash value should take quite a long time.

 

On the other hand

we have this thing

todays standards.

 

I had chance at a white 57 t bird. hardtop big V8 white red interior continental kit..I could get it for

one thousand dollars, in 1968.

Check out that price today.

 

And.. for many years, 'todays standards' applied to that car, and NOBODY saw it as anything special, and it was 20 years before it's value began to even climb noticeably.

 

The chinese epiphone g400 guitar may not look like much to you or me right now..

but I don't predict the future.

 

The best bet seems to be that you got a guitar that WILL ACTUALLY LAST long enough to increase in value, IF it's taken care of.

For you, no more profit, I think, than I'll get from my Sheri, but that's more satisfaction than a sort of Mr. Potter Taking Over the Bank value.

 

Yes, the worlds last existing 'pocket booger disposal device', or the only Electric Train with a misprinted label,

or Hector the Accountants toothbrush. *in the future, Hector the Accountant saved the world*, achieved values impossible to predict.

 

For someone in some unpredictable future, as I've said, it would be just great to have it appreciated.

I'm not ashamed of having warm and fuzzys!

 

 

You can try this:

 

They made a million.. (your product here)... back in.... (your choice of years here)... but nobody thought they would ever be worth anything, so only ONE survived. Now considered extremely valuable.

 

 

Somewhere between what we're dang sure of, and how many times we were full of it..

you can find all of our epiphones!

 

Mine will be at my house.

 

TWANG

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In the end' date=' for me, I buy what makes me happy and gives me an "inner value" of satisfaction. Sometimes it's a model that broadly appeals to others too which is a plus if I ever wanted to horse trade. [b']But I am hoarder and rarely let my gear go, despite my wife's pleas to the contrar[/b]y #-o

 

Also, let's not forget that your guitars won't be jealous of you playing other guitars and go off running to a divorce

lawyer to split up your assets and have to pay alimony on top of that. A guitar will stay in tune with

you for the entire days of your life and only to be torn from your cold dead hands. :)

 

Ok..I asked for it...who knows about those politically incorrect lines "Why a guitar is better than a woman"

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number of examples made' date=' and number of examples extant [/quote']

:)

 

and other stuff like:

 

Sometimes the red candy sells for more just because it's not blue candy.

 

So the red candy is more popular..and runs out of stock more than blue or green guitars/

 

 

The more times that happens, the better shape the guitar is in, the more it is worth.

but, being what it is by todays standards, that increase in cash value should take quite a long time.

 

 

I had chance at a white 57 t bird. hardtop big V4 white red interior continental kit..

one thousand dollars in 1968.

Check out that price.

And.. for many years, 'todays standards' applied to that car, and NOBODY saw it as anything special, and it was 20 years before it's value began to even climb noticeably.

 

And don't forget that in 57 a dollar was a dollar in buying power. You could get a hamburger, shake and and fries

at mcD's and still get a nickel in change back..they actually had ads on tv about that...nowdays, if you can

get out with some change from a $10 bill, you'd be a lucky man.

 

Similarly with my Kalamazoo Gibson made Epi Triumph..in '66 it was worth around $400 CDN with a Gibson

hardshell case. In 2002 it sold for over $1800 (unfortunate decision). So from '66 to 02 (40 yrs almost) it

appreciated over 4 times the original price because it was made by Gibson and there is some historic/nostalgic

value there.. and VERY FEW WERE MADE.

But the question remains could I buy 4 times more for the $1800 than I could in '66..I rest my case!

 

The chinese epiphone g400 guitar may not look like much to you or me right now..

but I dont' predict the future.

 

For someone in some unpredictable future.

Well.. wouldn't you at least like to be the one that saved them the guitar they needed, wanted, and played?

 

They made a million.. (your product here)... back in.... (your choice of years here)... but noboby thought they would ever be worth anything , so NONE survived.

 

somewhere between what we're dang sure of, and how many times we were full of it..

you can find all of our epiphones!

 

Well they are all out there...and some are worth a LOT more than others, because they are scarce or there is some

history behind them.

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LOL! Truth be told, my wife is a good sport about all of my guitars... I just have to do with the occasional roll of the eyes and the "another one?" commentary... Fortunately my son plays drums and my oldest daughter sings and plays Piano so I can fill in as the "Guitarist Dad"... In that vein, my wife is better able to appreciate the guitars. ;-)

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JoeSamick wrote:

 

Obviously, speak to someone like Teegar about vintage Epiphones.....sheesh they can be expensive.....but so beautiful...

 

Well, I paid over 3K for my 1939 Epiphone Broadway several years ago (2003?), because I really wanted that 17" walnut body. Within a year the bottom fell out of the acoustic archtop market, probably lost a grand on that one. But no matter, I'll never sell it, so it's no use doing the buyer's remorse thing "Oh if only I'd waited..."

 

Any other guitars I've actually sold, including Epiphones, I sold for what I paid for them. If you spend $350 on a modern low end Epiphone (like I did on a '66 reissue Wilshire), you'll be lucky to get $300 for it down the road, if you took good care of it. But that's not the point. Purchase and play them because you want to, and that's all the recoup of investment you need. The VG price guide is instructive here, you can see values have held and gone up for iconic vintage guitars - Brazilian rosewood Martins, classic Gibson electrics, etc. The rest will hold value as good utility instruments, if they're well cared for. IMHO.

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I've never been in the enviable position of being able to purchase something in the hope & expectation that it may one day accumulate value. There have occassions when I have realized more for an item than I actually paid for it.

One was the dreadful deathtrap of a car called a Citroen 2CV, which I bought for a paltry £500, kept for a year and sold for £850.

Better than that was the Gibson J45 which I bought on a whim, did about 80+ gigs with it, played at loads of mad parties with it, had an enjoyable two years owning it, and sold it for more than twice what I paid for it.

It was only slightly spoiled by subsequently learning I could have got four times what I paid for it.

C'est la vie, mais non?

Pierre.

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Well, and as has been stated, "value" is up to the interested party. And...the times, in which it

exists, as well. When I first started photography, I bought a Hassleblad camera, and 3 lenses.

Used them for 25 years, and sold them for 2 times, what I paid for them new...(and used that

money, to upgrade, to the next version of Hasslebad, and lenses). "Inflation," and perceived

value, both. NOW, those same cameras don't enjoy that kind of interest, because of

"Digital!" They're still great cameras, and do what they do, extremely well. BUT, the market has

changed, significantly, and film cameras aren't in much demand, save a few collectors, and/or old

"die hards," like me. So, I kept them, rather than take such a beating, in the "used" market. They

are worth a LOT more to me, than any amount I was quoted, as to their "value/worth," these days.

So, "Worth" (Guitars, cameras, cars, etc.) can be transitory, and fickle.

 

Just buy what you enjoy Now, and don't worry (too much, anyway) about "what it will be worth," someday.

 

CB

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New ones? Not a chance. They are made in the thousands each month by unskilled Asian sweatshop workers. Add to that the terrible quality issues they have been dealing (or not dealing) with the last couple years and I worry Gibson/Epiphone won't even be in business in ten years if they don't pull their heads out of their asses and get a new CEO running and not ruining things.

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Well, a bunch of interesting comments there. I'd have to disagree with you Musikron.. the quality of Epiphones in my experience has been gradually getting better. In comparison to my first Epiphone from 1995, an SG copy.. they are streets ahead fifteen years later.

 

Anyway, here are my three cherished babies.. The newest being the 1966 SG in Faded Cherry that I got today. After a quick change of strings, adjustment of action and intonation I was away. The SG is so much more aggressive sounding than the Explorer. But two awesome sounding, and looking guitars from Epiphone. I love them all and would never sell them. It was just a point of interest for me.

 

 

 

DSC00402.jpg

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The only way any given Epi is likely to appreciate in value is if there aren't many of them, and they're not making them anymore. You can probably sell an Elitist Casino or a Riviera 12-string for more than you paid for it, but you're never going to make money on a G-400 or a Les Paul copy. There's just too many of them.

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Well' date=' a bunch of interesting comments there. I'd have to disagree with you Musikron.. the quality of Epiphones in my experience has been gradually getting better. In comparison to my first Epiphone from 1995, an SG copy.. they are streets ahead fifteen years later.

 

Anyway, here are my three cherished babies.. The newest being the 1966 SG in Faded Cherry that I got today. After a quick change of strings, adjustment of action and intonation I was away. The SG is so much more aggressive sounding than the Explorer. But two awesome sounding, and looking guitars from Epiphone. I love them all and would never sell them. It was just a point of interest for me.

 

 

 

[img']http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/dannyboyee82/DSC00402.jpg[/img]

 

 

 

I think you are getting quality and specs confused. 15 years ago Epis where made with poor quality parts and wood, maple necks, alder bodies, horrible inlays, lots of bolt on necks etc. These days Epis are made with much better components, however, the quality of finish ie: the care taken to assemble those parts is very shoddy at the moment.

 

My 1997 G400 is put together really well, everything is neatly done, even though all the component parts are cheap and nasty. The brand new MIC Epis I looked at the other day (pretty much the whole range) had nice mohogony bodies, upgraded pickups and tuners etc, they were just sloppily put together.

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I feel the discussion would be more meaningful if we were all ont he same page about "Value" and not necessary the cost sustainable after the purchase.

 

Having spent as much a s $5k on a guitar (Gibson '09 LP 50th), and most my most recent purchase of a Epi L.E. 1959 Standard LP, I would hands down give the value nod to the Epiphone. If I were focusing on resale performance, well i would think the Gibson would fare better for name preference alone in the secondary market. But from a true value standpoint, the $749 I just spent on the new EPI LP is the clear winner in my book. And I don't care what anyone says, this particular Epi LP I took home with the Made in China label on the back of the neck is QC'd as well as any Corona Fender, Nashville Gibson, or Stevensville PRS that I have purchased in the last few years. And this comes from a person (me) who has been quite critical of alot of garbage I have seen over the years from many different manufacturers.

 

Materials are a different discussion, and why Elitists and Special Run Epi's with various wood and hardware upgrades appeal to me a bit more without spending a whole bunch more but not getting a whole bunch more (other than a name on a headstock).

 

Value is why I think most of us are here on the Epiphone Forum to begin with, no?

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I read a lot of truth in these comments. When the manafacturer's in the Far East finally got good at making mass produced instruments, the game was up really for 2nd hand sales.

 

For what it's worth, I've never yet bought a guitar with the thought of future re-sale in mind. It's just not part of my criteria when I'm handing over the debit card to a store owner.

 

Rarity is the key - that's why a 1959 Les Paul in even poor order (but still original) will cost you as much as a really good house..

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Perhaps when they run out of wood to make guitars...yes even mystery wood. "Sigh~ Remember those days when guitars were real and not made out of plastic, or reworked cardboard?" (Yeah I know it's been done before)

 

Dig

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It's all about supply & demand. There's an "oversupply" of G-400s. Lots & lots & lots out there. There is also an oversupply of reasonable quality entry level guitars in the market being produced all over the world. From a demand side there is the remote possibility that some as yet unknown guitar god could make the G-400 his or her calling card reving up demand in the vintage market. But I seriously doubt it. In the end the G-400 won't be a rare guitar with relentless demand. So prices will drop to some minimum level & then track inflation. No great loss.

 

On the brighter side it is a very high value guitar. If you bought it new or used it has exceptional value. Enjoy it for what it is. If it brings a little joy into your world every day it is money well spent.

 

Someone once said "The quality will be remembered long after the price is forgotten."

 

Enjoy.

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I

 

Rarity is the key - that's why a 1959 Les Paul in even poor order (but still original) will cost you as much as a really good house..

 

And why is that? Why should an old (sometimes beat up) Gibson LP standard cost as

much... or more than a house? Are they really the "tone kings" they are claimed to be?

Or is there so much myth and history surrounding these that they are the quinessential LP?

 

Is it just nostalgia talking here and some of us approaching the twilight years of

our lives can afford the ridiculous asking prices

and..for a brief moment..hope for that taste of elusive immortality

..maybe even play one to go back in time to when we were young?

 

And if you managed to get one..where would your keep it in order not to get it stolen?

Construct a vault in a room in your house?

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