Truss Rod issues

[Matt_Sabbath_684]

I recently bought a "Scratch & Dent Special" G-400 Custom from a national music supply shop. (to remain unnamed) After receiving the new slab, I immediately unwrapped it only to find no scratches or dents but a truss rod that sticks too far out of the neck and bends up the cover. So I figured, screw it, Ill take the truss rod cover off and it'll be all good. Wrong! I took the cover off and noticed that the allen key socket is blocked off just enough to keep me from making any adjustments if and when they are called for.

 

So what causes this? Is the truss rod too long, or maybe it was never set correctly? Can it be pushed or persuaded otherwise into its proper position? I don't want to take a dremel to it for fear of damaging the allen key socket. That would severely worsen my predicament. If anyone knows the solution to this problem and is willing to share I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Thanks

Matt_Sabbath_684

[gl297]

Return it, this is not a "scratch" nor a "dent". Make them pay for the return shipping too. Sounds to me like this guitar has a serious problem that you don't want to mess with and the truss rod will probably never work correctly.

[Matt_Sabbath_684]

Ive only had it a few days, but it plays absolutely fine.

[Bender 4 Life]

Ive only had it a few days' date=' but it plays absolutely fine.[/quote']

 

but it won't for long...........every time the season changes (if you "play out") you may well NEED a correctly working truss rod.

i'd bite the bullet and send it back with a scathing letter describing the difference between a scratch-n-dent, and a non playable guitar (which is what yours will likely become within a year or 2).

[gl297]

Just call them and explain the situation, if it's musiciansfriend they will help you out without any grief, at least they have for me in the past. this guitar never should have been sent out. Tell them that since the truss rod is damaged that you would like them to e-mail you a Return Shipping Label that you can print out (if it didn't come with one) and an RMA #. Hopefully you kept all the packaging and the box, if not you'll have to find some or they might tell you to use the one the new guitar comes in (if they send it first).

 

Bender 4 life is exactly right and if you wait too long any distributor might tell you that you took too long to notify them, not really a problem with MF cause of their 45 day return policy. Even if the guitar isn't damaged they will take it back but you'll have to pay the return shipping if the guitar doesn't have anything wrong with it. Good luck.

 

Get on the phone, this is unacceptable, you'll have the replacement soon. They sent me a replacement once even before they received the damaged one...You're actually lucky that the truss rod cover was like that or you probably would have found out way too late.

[TWANG]

I took the cover off and noticed that the allen key socket is blocked off just enough to keep me from making any adjustments if and when they are called for.

 

that's the part that I need to understand better.

 

blocked by what?

the nut is in the way?

you could cut a little off the bottom of the nut.

 

but if the allen socket is too deep into the headstock..

take a pic!

that should clear it up..

[brianh]

This does not sound good. A guitar with an defective truss rod is like a car with the alignment bushings stripped - you won't be able to make the necessary adjustments down the road. Return it ASAP.

 

But post some pics in the meantime just for the record and forum interest....

[Matt_Sabbath_684]

I took the cover off and noticed that the allen key socket is blocked off just enough to keep me from making any adjustments if and when they are called for.

 

that's the part that I need to understand better.

 

blocked by what?

the nut is in the way?

you could cut a little off the bottom of the nut.

 

but if the allen socket is too deep into the headstock..

take a pic!

that should clear it up..

 

 

Its blocked by the end of that channel the truss rod sits in. If you remove the truss rod cover from any other guitar you'll see the channel Im talking about. Its usually long enough that you can get an allen wrench in there. The truss rod on my guitar sticks out to the end of that channel and the socket is blocked maybe 1/3 of whatever size it's supposed to be.

[brianh]

Its blocked by the end of that channel the truss rod sits in. If you remove the truss rod cover from any other guitar you'll see the channel Im talking about. Its usually long enough that you can get an allen wrench in there. The truss rod on my guitar sticks out to the end of that channel and the socket is blocked maybe 1/3 of whatever size it's supposed to be.

It may be that the other end of the truss rod has pulled up through the neck, hence the extended socket.

 

Not fixable unless you're a luthier and ready to take the guitar apart and put it back together.

 

Still would like to see some pics...

[epidotstudio]

If you can return the guitar, that would be good. But I ran into what might be the same thing. In a Dot I once owned, I discovered that the truss rod was "floating" inside the neck. The first time I went to adjust it, it slid down the neck with the socket going almost 1/2" past the nut (toward the tailpiece). There was no tension on the rod. With the wrench in the socket I could pull it up again, all the way up that channel you're talking about, until it coud go no farther. Total play was about a inch. By positioning the rod where it belonged, and tensioning it, it worked fine and wouldn't move. Try detensioning the rod to see if you can reposition it, then re-tension it. All may not be lost.

 

I emailed Gibson/Epiphone Customer Service about the problem, and was told that this is normal, though I'm still not certain if it is or isn't.

[TWANG]

ah I see what you're saying I think.

the truss rod is too close to the top of the channel?

you know you might just push it in further and there you go.

they aren't always as tight in the bottom as usual.

and often it makes no difference once there's some pressure on the rod.

IOW it may be that it had no pressure when it left the factory..as it played ok.

so a little bit of a turn wont hurt a thing if it's a 'little' pressure.

[Matt_Sabbath_684]

>>> epidotstudio, should I take the strings off before trying to ajust the rod?

[brianh]

>>> epidotstudio' date=' should I take the strings off before trying to ajust the rod?[/quote']

You should not need to take the strings off. You can usually get a 1/4 turn or so between the D and G without removing the wrench. It is advisable to make truss rod adjustments incrementally, not more than 1/2 turn in either direction.

 

More here:

 

http://www.athensmusician.net/archive/2001-05-01_geneimbody1.shtml

 

Better yet, read chapter 3 in this book:

 

[epidotstudio]

>>> epidotstudio' date=' should I take the strings off before trying to ajust the rod?[/quote']

No, you shouldn't. Your asking that question indicates to me that you'll need to expand your understanding of what a truss rod does and how it works before attempting adjustments. The book that Brian recommended is quite good and may be available at your local public library, along with other publications. If you Google "truss rod adjustment", etc., there's a wealth of information on the Interweb. That's how I learn how to do most of this stuff.

[Old Bob]

A few times now (first with an Epi ES175 and more recently a Sheraton) I have come across what appear to be dual action rods. They can apply pressure in either direction, with a 'null' (degree of slack) in between the two. My fairly recent Sheraton developed too much relief. I removed the cover and the adjuster was loose on the rod; although as far as I could tell the rod was not actually loose in the channel - but, when I first came across dual rods, some research I did (Google) suggested some dual rods will just pull straight out, if the clearances are right. With the Sheraton I just tweaked (righty tighty) the adjuster to remove the slack and gave it a quarter-turn at most. Everything back to normal. It takes a certain amount of nerve to tackle the truss rod the first time round, but as the guys say here - just take it steady, and it's a good skill to learn. You should be able to find out if the rod is just loose (but can be pushed back in place and adjusted) or if there is a genuine problem. If there is a problem, pain though it is, send it back.

[Bender 4 Life]

Gibson/Epi responded that a floating truss rod is NORMAL????????

SEnd it back while you can.

[brianh]

Gibson/Epi responded that a floating truss rod is NORMAL???????? ](*' date=')[/quote']

If the neck has the desired relief without truss rod correction then it should be left finger tight.

[Matt_Sabbath_684]

Okay guys, I'm gonna try to link my Facebook page to this damn thing cause I can't figure out how to post pics.

 

http://www.facebook.com/therealMATTSABBATH#!/photo.php?pid=5416921&id=710570983&fbid=434458900983

 

Keep in mind, I have not touched the truss rod since the Stork dropped the guitar off to me.

[brianh]

OK, your Avatar shows the problem pretty well, but here are the pics:

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't quite understand the problem, but it sure looks like a defect to me and should be fixed or replaced by your dealer. Nice Guitar BTW, I see why you don't want to send it back:

 

 

 

[Matt_Sabbath_684]

Cool man! Thanx for posting my pix, Im a total cave man when it comes to computer ****. lol

[gl297]

Cool man! Thanx for posting my pix' date=' Im a total cave man when it comes to computer yeehaw. lol [/quote']

go to photobucket.com, register(it's free), then upload pics from your pc to there. after they are in your album just copy-and-paste the bottom link code here. presto magico...pictures

[brianh]

Now if someone would tell us what the heck's wrong with that trussrod...

[gl297]

Now if someone would tell us what the heck's wrong with that trussrod...

 

Well the truss rod looks too high in the channel, either that or the headstock rout is not correctly cut. Try to push it in using your thumb, it might go in if you loosen it first to take the pressure off. If by some strange act of god it does go in, tighten it 'til snug. I think that most truss rods are glued into the rout. If you can't push it back in, then sorry to say, send this guitar back before it's too late. The guitar is not right and that model guitar is too good to accept any less. If you bought from a major on-line distributer, they usually will ship you the new one before they receive the defective one. If you did that on the day you started this topic, you probably would of received the new one already :-)

 

update: you wont even be able to get an allen wrench in the truss rod because of the wood. Send it back.

[Matt_Sabbath_684]

Okay, can somebody show me where the truss rod is supposed to be? Since Ive shown you guys where it is.

[brianh]

At least half of the cylinder should not be visible, the end of it should extrude maybe 1/2 inch.