ryan7olson7 Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 just a heads up. i have a riviera p93 and have noticed that the pickups were lacking in top end and clarity, so i decided to take the covers off and have a look. the black covers are powdercoated metal! not plastic. now i know that some like the sound of their casinos as is, but i also have an epi es 295 with stock pickups that sounds incredible! and it has creme plastic covers. so i put the pickups and screws back in without the covers and gave her a whirl, and low and behold, it's tone time! much fuller yet open and almost 1/3 more output! so i have come to the conclusion that in my opinion these pickups sound perfect without metal covers. it seems to me they are blocking the magnetic field some. so that leaves us with the problem of where to get black plastic covers for MIC epiphone p90's. well it seems that epiphone has finally standardized their p90's to 1.97inches pole spacing(50mm) and stewart macdonald guitar supply has some that will fit. p90 covers whether or not this will work for made in korea guitars i dont know, but my korean made es295 has the same spacing as the made in china riviera. and the es295 had the 2007-2009 style p90's that were super hot, like 12k ohms. and plug in connectors on the harness. long story short i prefers plastic p90 covers as they do not muffle the pickups. ymmv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 People have been removing covers from humbuckers for years. THIS: BECOMES THIS: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan7olson7 Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 i was just letting everyone know that the covers are METAL not PLASTIC. and instead of mindlessly dropping 300 bucks on new pickups, maybe give em a try without the metal covers and if you like it, i added a link to replacement plastic ones which will fit the guitar in all 3 pickup spots, and wont muddy up the tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Oh, yeah, yeah. I knew what you were saying. I was just pointing out that people have been to doing the same thing with 'buckers and getting the same results, so I'm not surprised at your findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell999 Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Hey Ryan, I really appreciate your post. I just got the P93 Riviera--and it sounds great, but yeah, it was a tad on the dark/warm side. So when I saw your post, I ordered the plastic covers from Stewie Mac, and just put on the neck cover--and wow! Beautiful tone! You're right, this guitar doesn't need different pickups--these sound great! Thanks again for spreading the word--I had assumed that the covers were plastic, because they sure look plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeks Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 I would think that the makers would have been using non-ferrous metals for the pickup covers all along. It's physics ! CHEEKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan7olson7 Posted August 27, 2010 Author Share Posted August 27, 2010 I would think that the makers would have been using non-ferrous metals for the pickup covers all along. It's physics ! CHEEKS you would think, but stamped "steel" is probably cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeks Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 you would think, but stamped "steel" is probably cheaper. They could use aluminum or brass instead of plastic... so much engineering i guess ! Hahahahah.... CHEEKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongdog Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 My newer P93 Riviera CHN built in early 2011 has non ferrous metal covers, Maybe powder coated aluminum? They are not attracted by a magnet. I may get the plastic ones still. Definitely dark on the verge of muddy. I tried the neck naked and it did seem brighter. I think the pickups are too hot!! Mine read from low 11 to mid 11 ohms DC!! Shouldn't they be about 8 ohm traditionally??? Mine is built and finished very well but needs basic setup - lower action (lower lead pickup shim, truss adjust and intonation) as most need. Frets are perfect - level and crown is AA++. Tusq nut is on the list and the new p-up covers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Sounds great.............and a plus one for you....I'll give mine an upgrade............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 i was just letting everyone know that the covers are METAL not PLASTIC. and instead of mindlessly dropping 300 bucks on new pickups, maybe give em a try without the metal covers and if you like it, i added a link to replacement plastic ones which will fit the guitar in all 3 pickup spots, and wont muddy up the tone. So, I've asked this question once before and nobody could answer it. Since you just went through this, maybe you can. On my Casino, the neck PU had the shorter cover on it than the bridge cover. On the Riviera, is the neck cover shorter also? And, what about the middle PU? Is it short or tall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongdog Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 So, I've asked this question once before and nobody could answer it. Since you just went through this, maybe you can. On my Casino, the neck PU had the shorter cover on it than the bridge cover. On the Riviera, is the neck cover shorter also? And, what about the middle PU? Is it short or tall? When I sober up I will check but i thinks all are the same size...though DC ohm was calibrated up from neck to to bridge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 So, I've asked this question once before and nobody could answer it. Since you just went through this, maybe you can. On my Casino, the neck PU had the shorter cover on it than the bridge cover. On the Riviera, is the neck cover shorter also? And, what about the middle PU? Is it short or tall? Shorter ??? No........All three are the same size.........The bridge cover is mounted on a riser................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongdog Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 After living with the guitar a few weeks I am still not in love with the pickups. After all the pole piece adjustments and lowering shim at lead etc, they are muddy and too high output. A p-90 should be in the high 7k to low 8k range and these are lik1 10-11k ohms DC. Too much and no chime and not much mids and too much woof in the lows. Great for smooth jazz but I am not getting that versatile tones this should have. Just my opinion but I am thinking some different p-ups will be needed. Any suggestions for reasonable priced vintage spec replacements would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Just my opinion but I am thinking some different p-ups will be needed. Any suggestions for reasonable priced vintage spec replacements would be appreciated. GFS make some awesome P90s for surprisingly little outlay, a bit further up the economic scale and I hear many good things about Lollar P90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Lollars are yummy, the best out there, IMHO. I have a Casino with Vintage Vibes, the ones with changable magnets. They're good for dialing in your tone. Love them, too. Both of those are a little pricey, though. Never tried GFS, but there are a lot of converts here that love them for their value (price vs tone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I hear many good things about Lollar P90s. Lollars are yummy, the best out there, IMHO. I have a Casino with Vintage Vibes, the ones with changable magnets. They're good for dialing in your tone. Love them, too. Both of those are a little pricey, though. Never tried GFS, but there are a lot of converts here that love them for their value (price vs tone). Just the man I heard all the good things from, Hi Pat. BTW: I have a set of GFS soapbar P90s in small semi-hollow, they are tremendous and respond extremely well to pick attack, treat them nice and they have a wonderful chimey quality to them, the harder you pick though and the more they thicken up, give 'em what for and they'll tear your bloody head off, very responsive set. The tone control has a lot of influence over them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongdog Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yeah GFS is hit or miss and never tried P90's, though I did have a set of New Yorkers? in a cool harmony Rocket. I have a cheap CHN Ric/PRS copy semi hollow copy that actually are really nice. I have a cheap SX p90 strat ash that are ok - bright and they like the pedals kind of p-ups. I had a Godin SP90 with Seymour's and that rocked but sold it (never liked the neck). That is my P90 knowledge. Love Rio Grande's products across the board but way $$$$. I am checking in with John Benson to see what he has for custom ordered "hand wounds" but since it is a $400 axe I need to assess.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueman335 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 i was just letting everyone know that the covers are METAL not PLASTIC. and instead of mindlessly dropping 300 bucks on new pickups, maybe give em a try without the metal covers and if you like it, i added a link to replacement plastic ones which will fit the guitar in all 3 pickup spots, and wont muddy up the tone. The reason they're metal is for shielding, to reduce RF 60 cycle noise that single coils have. That reduces a bit of treble too. It's a trade off. I upgraded the PU's on my P-93 and Casino, to Duncans, which made far more difference then changing PU covers. Stock Epi P-90's are decent (better then their HB's), but you won't get the detail, definition, and depth from them that you will with a high-quality P-90. Remember, you can get used PU's on eBay, often for half price. That's where I get most of mine. Another thing you can do to change/improve the tone of a P-90 is to swap magnets. It only takes a few minutes. All you have to do is loosen the strings, change mags, and tighten them up. P-90's have two magnets inside, side-by-side, positioned so that they're repelling each other. Lift the cover, and loosen the two base plate screws, and slide the magnets out (to orient: pull the old magnet out halfway, hold the new one next to it, so the ends repel and sides attact). You can put in any two alnicos, to get the EQ blend and output you want. To add some warmth and mids to bridge P-90's, I use these pairs: A8/A5, A8/A4, A4/A4, and UOA5/UOA5. In the neck slot I use: A5/A5, A5/A4, and A5/A3. You can really shape your tone this way. Addiction FX on eBay has the biggest selection of guitar magnets and lowest prices (humbuckers and P-90's use the same magnets). Try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongdog Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The reason they're metal is for shielding, to reduce RF 60 cycle noise that single coils have. That reduces a bit of treble too. It's a trade off. I upgraded the PU's on my P-93 and Casino, to Duncans, which made far more difference then changing PU covers. Stock Epi P-90's are decent (better then their HB's), but you won't get the detail, definition, and depth from them that you will with a high-quality P-90. Remember, you can get used PU's on eBay, often for half price. That's where I get most of mine. Another thing you can do to change/improve the tone of a P-90 is to swap magnets. It only takes a few minutes. All you have to do is loosen the strings, change mags, and tighten them up. P-90's have two magnets inside, side-by-side, positioned so that they're repelling each other. Lift the cover, and loosen the two base plate screws, and slide the magnets out (to orient: pull the old magnet out halfway, hold the new one next to it, so the ends repel and sides attact). You can put in any two alnicos, to get the EQ blend and output you want. To add some warmth and mids to bridge P-90's, I use these pairs: A8/A5, A8/A4, A4/A4, and UOA5/UOA5. In the neck slot I use: A5/A5, A5/A4, and A5/A3. You can really shape your tone this way. Addiction FX on eBay has the biggest selection of guitar magnets and lowest prices (humbuckers and P-90's use the same magnets). Try it. Hmm... interesting. I would think the amount, size and type of wire and how it is wound (scatter or linear) affect output and tone. I know old pickups can demagnetize after MANY years and affect tone and output. I may mess with them to see what I can brew up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Hmm... interesting. I would think the amount, size and type of wire and how it is wound (scatter or linear) affect output and tone. I know old pickups can demagnetize after MANY years and affect tone and output. I may mess with them to see what I can brew up! Magnets make more of a difference than you may think. When I got my Vintage Vibes, I got a set of every kind of magnet he had available (A-2,A-3, A-5 and Ceramic). I spent hours changing them out, trying different combinations. Yes, the type of wire and wind do affect the tone some, but in my experience, magnets make the biggest difference. I ended up with A-2s at the neck (and South side up) and A-5s at the bridge. Nice warm, almost acoustic, neck tones to that overdriven (without sounding like a cheap chainsaw) P-90 sound everybody knows. I found that the Ceramics were just too much for me. I've never changed the magnets out on any other P-90, but I can't imagine it would be too difficult. Nice info, Blueman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueman335 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Hmm... interesting. I would think the amount, size and type of wire and how it is wound (scatter or linear) affect output and tone. I know old pickups can demagnetize after MANY years and affect tone and output. I may mess with them to see what I can brew up! Absoluetly, the wind is critical to a PU's tone. But with P-90's there's a magnet to coil ratio of 2-to-1. With humbuckers its 1/2-to-1. So magnets play a much bigger role in a P-90's tone than a humbucker. For those that don't know, the various alnicos are made of different combinations of metals, which gives them a different magnetic field, which in turn 'reads' different sections of the strings vibrations. That changes a PU's sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueman335 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Magnets make more of a difference than you may think... I've never changed the magnets out on any other P-90, but I can't imagine it would be too difficult. Nice info, Blueman. Thanks. I've changed the magnets in almost all of my bridge P-90's (soap bar, dog ear, and HB-sized) for a warmer, fuller tone, and in half of my neck P-90's. There so much you can do with this; I'm one of the pioneers with P-90 magnets on the Duncan forum. Exciting stuff. Anybody that needs any advice on this, feel free to ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongdog Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Thanks. I've changed the magnets in almost all of my bridge P-90's (soap bar, dog ear, and HB-sized) for a warmer, fuller tone, and in half of my neck P-90's. There so much you can do with this; I'm one of the pioneers with P-90 magnets on the Duncan forum. Exciting stuff. Anybody that needs any advice on this, feel free to ask me. Okay - add this new ventura to my many obsessions! Between amp and guitar building, modding, repairs, add surfing, family life and attempting to make a living to the mix and I should be able to eat one square a day and sleep 45 mintutes a night. I am already lurking at ebay for magnets and stuff.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueman335 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Okay - add this new ventura to my many obsessions! Between amp and guitar building, modding, repairs, add surfing, family life and attempting to make a living to the mix and I should be able to eat one square a day and sleep 45 mintutes a night. I am already lurking at ebay for magnets and stuff.... Swapping magents will be the quickest and easiest part of your day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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