My Buzz-Kill Reality: Epiphone will Always be regarded as CHEAP

[Muskank Sally]

My Buzzkill

I have a very nice set of Epiphone guitars

and that just doesn't matter to some people.

Take my guitarist bandmate for instance.

He owns all top of the line gear and has Marshalls and Gibsons, Godins, Fenders, Ibanez

you name it.

He Loathes Epiphones.

The one he bought some time ago was a real turkey and he just won't let up.

"Man, you need to send that piece of sh*t back to it's parents in China and get a real guitar, I'm not lyin'"

I just let it roll because I've known this guy for quite a while and I knew what to expect really

Sort of knew what he'd say before it's said

But it is a buzzkill. Not feeling so hot about my new guitar anymore.

That's OK really

Just amazes me he had absolutely no interest in even giving it a chance.

Some things Will Never Change.

[animalfarm]

And HOW would he feel if you preferred to play on

Daisy Rock or Hello Kitty guitars??? Phooey! Good

he has gear HE likes, and YOU have gear YOU like.

Guess he'll just have to accept it , or "Talk to the hand...".

 

:-k

[charlie brown]

Guitar (AKA Gear) Snobs, are a dime a dozen! Don't let it/him get to you! IF you like/love your Epi,

that's all that matters! Learn a bunch of great licks, with loads of feeling, and your own awesome tone,

and blow his socks off (shut his mouth) that way...and the "guitar" brand or COO (Country Of Origin)

won't matter, as much, anyway. Real Talent, is the best sort of revenge!

;>)

 

CB

[lpfan]

Guitar (AKA Gear) Snobs' date=' are a dime a dozen! Don't let it/him get to you! IF you like/love your Epi,

that's all that matters! Learn a bunch of great licks, with loads of feeling, and your own awesome tone,

and blow his socks off (shut his mouth) that way...and the "guitar" brand or COO (Country Of Origin)

won't matter, as much, anyway. Real Talent, is the best sort of revenge!

;>)

 

CB[/quote']

 

+1

[Muskank Sally]

Guitar (AKA Gear) Snobs' date=' are a dime a dozen! Don't let it/him get to you! IF you like/love your Epi,

that's all that matters! Learn a bunch of great licks, with loads of feeling, and your own awesome tone,

and blow his socks off (shut his mouth) that way...and the "guitar" brand or COO (Country Of Origin)

won't matter, as much, anyway. Real Talent, is the best sort of revenge!

;>)

 

CB[/quote']

He doesn't knock my playing. He likes the tone I get he's even said so

so that little Solid State Marshall and the Epiphones have faired very well onstage

He's a tube man all the way

[Bender 4 Life]

sounds like your bandmate is a real a$$..........

 

don't be surprised if he breaks up the band before it's all said & done.......

it's always the snobs & a$$es that do it.... I know from experience

[BKitten]

He doesn't knock my playing. He likes the tone I get he's even said so

so that little Solid State Marshall and the Epiphones have faired very well onstage

He's a tube man all the way

 

Well there you go, you SOUND okay and that's what a guitar is for, to make a SOUND.

 

He probably also believes in the Tooth Fairy.

 

Most people who are into "tubes" will bang on and on about how transistors are crap and tubes are great, and then put their $2000 guitar and big tube amp through a tiny transistorised distortion pedal - sometimes even a whole daisy-chain of the little things in a pedalboard. So much for then hating on transistors when they're using dozens of them to get their sound anyway.

 

The best sounding Stratocaster I've ever played is one of my student's Squier Affinity Strats that he got in one of those beginner guitar/amp package things. It sounds better than the Fender Strat Plus that I used to have. The Squier Hello Kitty comes a close second. Strat feel, light wood, fixed bridge, one humbucker in bridge position, simple controls? Yes please.

 

When you're going from Epi to Gibson, what you're paying all that extra money for is:

 

1. Someone in the US was paid to make it instead of someone in Asia

2. The pickups and electronics might be a little bit better made if you're lucky

3. A neck made out of one bit of wood instead of three, thereby making it less durable

4. Nitro finish that will wear off if you play a lot, and also cause problems when going through some airport security systems (it happened to a guitarist in my band while on tour, he spent over an hour trying to explain the "traces of explosive" to airport security), instead of nice glossy durable poly finish

5. Gibson on the headstock so you can brag to your friends, feel like part of the cool club, and possibly get robbed later

6. Higher resale value, which will definitely come in handy if you didn't want the thing in the first place

7. Maybe they got the wood from a different tree or something

 

It's mainly point 5 that matters to most people. It's the same reason why people spend hundreds on Rolex watches. Your ten dollar watch still tells you what time it is.

[StewartB]

Gas, I agree with other comments posted before me so suggest you disregard your bandmate's jibes.

 

I would say that if your Epi is well setup, feels good to play, and you get the tone / sound you want, then all is fine.

 

Some people just have to have the "brandnames". Doesn't matter if its cars, guitars, or sunglasses.

 

Stewart B

[mbrooks0711]

The Squier Hello Kitty comes a close second.

 

Funny you said that. I was poking fun at one of those hello kitty guitars in a shop and I asked the guy "what's your sales pitch on this one". He said "it sounds GOOD" and I said "no way". I tried it and I ate my words my friend. For looks I wouldn't take it onstage but for demo's and such, you would never know the difference.

 

To the original post, don't worry about your friend. He hears your several hundred dollar set-up and realizes it sounds as good as his multi-thousand dollar set-up and that is eating him alive.

[BKitten]

Funny you said that. I was poking fun at one of those hello kitty guitars in a shop and I asked the guy "what's your sales pitch on this one". He said "it sounds GOOD" and I said "no way". I tried it and I ate my words my friend. For looks I wouldn't take it onstage but for demo's and such' date=' you would never know the difference.

 

To the original post, don't worry about your friend. He hears your several hundred dollar set-up and realizes it sounds as good as his multi-thousand dollar set-up and that is eating him alive.[/quote']

 

One of my friends who is in a heavy metal band bought a Hello Kitty strat because he hates floating trems, loves light instruments, and especially loved the idea of going on a stage dressed in all-black metal gear (including face paint) brandishing one of those things.

[lamusiqa]

Sounds like your bandmate is just a gloating jerk. He of all people should know how a musician would feel about a new acquired instrument. To shoot down somebody's happy mood like that is a **** move. Besides, I've heard tons of China-made Ibanez and Epiphones that sounds better than their more expensive grade counterparts.

 

I've played an Epiphone G-400 fitted with Gibson 490's and it sounds just as sweet as my Gibson SG Special in stock config. Sure, a Gibson is of a higher quality, durable and could last longer but a China-made Epiphone can be just as good if extra care is taken. Plus, you'd save a lot of money for terrific sound.

 

It all comes down to personal satisfaction. If an axe produces amazing sound that you want, get it. Regardless of the price.

[snookelputz]

Ask your other band mates to compare your tone to his, then offer to trade gear for a set and kick his behind all over again.

[Xaj]

Same old discussion:

"Mine is bigger than yours"

 

No point in having a discussion with someone who doesn't want to hear the facts.

Oh, Brian May's Red Special was made of spare parts and junk and does not have a Gibson or Fender brand name attached to it. Must be garbage then... And who would ever play with junk professionally? Nobody. Right?

[cosmitron]

No matter what brush Leonardo Da Vinci used. It's a matter of brain, fingers and soul.

[Lord Summerisle]

Take my guitarist bandmate for instance.

He owns all top of the line gear and has Marshalls and Gibsons' date=' [b']Godins[/b], Fenders, Ibanez

you name it.

 

Well, kudos to him for the Godins if nothing else...

 

...but judging by what you've said, I'm guessing that he and I are interested in opposite ends of the Godin spectrum...

 

...but the "cheap" Godins, for my money, are the best guitar deal out there...

 

...I played one of these recently. It's far more impressive than the rrp of $499 suggests (especially when the "street" price can be found at under $400 - http://www.guitar-district.com/servlet/the-1151/New-Godin-Session-Electric/Detail )

 

 

 

 

...but I just wish that Godin didn't have to write the country(s) of origin all over the headstock. Perhaps, even at this price-range, they realize that their product will appeal to "country of origin snobs"? Hey, it may be cheap, but at least it ain't made in Mexico or Asia, right?

 

 

 

Personally, I only care about how a guitar sounds and plays...but then I don't think that I will ever be in a position to buy Gibsons, USA Fenders or Rickenbackers in the future...so I have to shop carefully these days...

 

And the Godin Session is definitely on the GAS list...

 

 

[animalfarm]

 

To the original post' date=' don't worry about your friend. He hears your several hundred dollar set-up

and realizes it sounds as good as his multi-thousand dollar set-up and that is eating him alive.[/quote']

 

[thumbup]

 

I recently jammed with another git player who was already playing in

established Rock Bands when I was an up and coming git player many

years ago. He had moved to California and played out there for 10 or so

years. I ran into him after 20 years. We got together, he brought a Line 6

Amp, said his Jackson was in Pawn Shop, then proceeded to break out......

An Epiphone LP Special II??? Didn't matter - once the fingers started doing the

talking I once again remembered how good a player he is... Whew!!! But at least

NOW I can keep up with him!!!!

 

"SPOCK, BONES..... I'll have no GEAR SNOBS on THIS Starship!!!!" Set Phasers for Stun....

 

[Caramello Koala]

Haha I have a friend who's exactly the same, he always rags on my Epiphone Dot, it gets pretty frustrating as every time he picks it up he will almost certainly say something negative about it. It was almost as though he considered my Epiphone guitar a fart in the wind compared to his Gibson Les Paul! After a good setup and changing the pickups to 57 classics it sounds almost identical to my Gibson SG 61' reissue, in my opinion.

 

Considering this is an Epiphone forum it's only natural that all the replies are going to be negative towards your friend, so I think I'll play devil's advocate here and rush to your friends defense! I believe that Gibson guitars are a big step up from Epiphone, the stock pickups in my Epiphone dot were muddy (especially the neck pickup!) and it was setup horribly! When I took it to the shop to get setup the nut actually fell off! And on more than one occasion the intonation just did it's own thing, an open E chord would sound perfectly in tune, but if i were to play it at the 12th fret it would sound like some freak accident augmented chord!

 

My Gibson on the other hand was perfectly set up and sounded amazing stock, no problems with tuning or intonation, and most importantly the neck is just a dream to play on, perfect low action without any fret buzzing and a smooth fretboard with binding! Even though Gibson's are quite expensive, it's very easy to bargain it down, and you can even get one second hand if you like! My SG retailed for $3400 and I got it down to $2100 cash in hand, including the case. Considering I paid about $750 for my dot and about $300 for the pair of 57 classics, and about $200 for all the setups it had (it was about $50 to get the pickups installed) that rounds up to about $1200, which isn't far off a Gibson!

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to come across as one of those Gibson loving Epiphone hating snobs, I'm just trying to explore both sides of the coin here. I still play my Epiphone Dot just as much as I play my Gibson SG, they're both great guitars, I just think one of them is better. Opinions?

[Notes_Norton]

I have an Epiphone Casino and a Gibson ES-330 - basically the same guitar. Minor pros and cons for each, but they are both very excellent guitars.

 

Lately I've been playing a bottom-feeder ESP that I replaced the pickups on for the gig.

 

If another musician's opinion of my playing is based on the name on the headstock instead of the sound coming out of the speaker, than his/her opinion is of no value to me. What I care about is the audience and their reaction to my music. They don't know the difference between a First Act and a Gibson on the headstock. All they know is if the music moves them or not.

 

A lot of great music has been made on cheap guitars, Danelectros, Italias, and names I cannot remember. And the early Fender guitars were just that, cheap guitars, and if you have one today, you can sell it and buy a house with the profits.

 

My guess is that your "friend" is insecure about his own worth as a musician, and uses the name on his headstock to bolster his self image and pretend superiority over those who display a lesser name on the headstock.

 

It's not what you've got, but what you do with it.

 

If you like your guitar, tell him you like it, and don't feel badly that you do.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ?

[duane v]

My Buzzkill

I have a very nice set of Epiphone guitars

and that just doesn't matter to some people.

Take my guitarist bandmate for instance.

He owns all top of the line gear and has Marshalls and Gibsons' date=' Godins, Fenders, Ibanez

you name it.

He Loathes Epiphones.

The one he bought some time ago was a real turkey and he just won't let up.

"Man, you need to send that piece of sh*t back to it's parents in China and get a real guitar, I'm not lyin'"

I just let it roll because I've known this guy for quite a while and I knew what to expect really

Sort of knew what he'd say before it's said

But it is a buzzkill. Not feeling so hot about my new guitar anymore.

That's OK really

Just amazes me he had absolutely no interest in even giving it a chance.

Some things Will Never Change.[/quote']

 

During the 80's I went through the same thought process. Epiphone was always thought of as the inferior brand by the Hollywood rock scene. The primary guitars of that time were Chavel/Jackson, Moser and Kramer, and of course I was locked into that type of thinking[blush]

 

I wished I had been a little more open minded back in those days#-o ... I passed up on a bunch of Epi's

[animalfarm]

What I care about is the audience and their reaction to my music.

They don't know the difference between a First Act and a Gibson on the

headstock. All they know is if the music moves them or not.

 

The TRUTH has been spoken! That IS the bottom line. I'm not impressed by

what I see on the headstock, but by what I HEAR.

 

Thank you, Notes, for your "to-the-point" elocution...

[CajunBlues]

In regards to musicians I know I know a very wide spectrum of talent... From beginner up to professional. And the band I play in is full of scary talented players... It's rare that the best players talk about gear... They do however talk a LOT about the music.... One of the reasons I like to be on these forums is to get my gear-talk fix... Because the folks I play with never talk about gear... Always about the music...

 

My point is that it's ok to be an obsessed gear head... But, truly the botton line about musical instruments is the music that comes from them... And epiphones in the right hands will produce wonderful music...

 

I see many great players in the local scene and at the jams playing epiphones/squiers/ibanez etc... and never once do the other players talk about the gear... They comment them on their playing...

 

this post may seem contradictory since I talk a lot about gear here... But I enjoy modding my instruments and working on them... So I guess that is my excuse...

[CajunBlues]

During the 80's I went through the same thought process. Epiphone was always thought of as the inferior brand by the Hollywood rock scene. The primary guitars of that time were Chavel/Jackson' date=' Moser and Kramer, and of course I was locked into that type of thinking[blush']

 

I wished I had been a little more open minded back in those days#-o ... I passed up on a bunch of Epi's

 

Man what were folks thinking back in the 80's ?? That is when the market was flooded with used 70's LP customs.... Everyone traded them in so they could sound like Eddie Van Halen.... I bought my 73 LP custom for $400 in 85

[Strumbone]

Well there you go' date=' you SOUND okay and that's what a guitar is for, to make a SOUND.

 

He probably also believes in the Tooth Fairy.

 

Most people who are into "tubes" will bang on and on about how transistors are crap and tubes are great, and then put their $2000 guitar and big tube amp through a tiny transistorised distortion pedal - sometimes even a whole daisy-chain of the little things in a pedalboard. So much for then hating on transistors when they're using dozens of them to get their sound anyway.

 

The best sounding Stratocaster I've ever played is one of my student's Squier Affinity Strats that he got in one of those beginner guitar/amp package things. It sounds better than the Fender Strat Plus that I used to have. The Squier Hello Kitty comes a close second. Strat feel, light wood, fixed bridge, one humbucker in bridge position, simple controls? Yes please.

 

When you're going from Epi to Gibson, what you're paying all that extra money for is:

 

1. Someone in the US was paid to make it instead of someone in Asia

2. The pickups and electronics might be a little bit better made if you're lucky

3. A neck made out of one bit of wood instead of three, thereby making it less durable

4. Nitro finish that will wear off if you play a lot, and also cause problems when going through some airport security systems (it happened to a guitarist in my band while on tour, he spent over an hour trying to explain the "traces of explosive" to airport security), instead of nice glossy durable poly finish

5. Gibson on the headstock so you can brag to your friends, feel like part of the cool club, and possibly get robbed later

6. Higher resale value, which will definitely come in handy if you didn't want the thing in the first place

7. Maybe they got the wood from a different tree or something

 

It's mainly point 5 that matters to most people. It's the same reason why people spend hundreds on Rolex watches. Your ten dollar watch still tells you what time it is.

 

[/quote']

 

Correct on all counts! Yes, I admit to being an "all tube" man, but I'm not one of the "tube sniffers" that buy whole lots of old, NOS (new old stock) GE's, Sylvania's, RCA's, etc., hoping to salvage a few decent ones. Or these folks that pay hundreds for a matched pair of NOS special long plate model blah blah blah. I just don't get it. Especially when you consider a valve is like a light bulb...over time, it will burn out and have to be replaced. Back in the day when everything was tube, it was easy to tell which tube no longer worked (glowed), so you pulled out the offender, went to the local radio shack, sears, etc., and for a buck fifty got a replacemet. This was the original version of "plug and play" I guess back in the 60's. So today, I just use current production valves because no matter what's used, they won't last forever and will be replaced eventually.

I also agree about taking a pure analog signal and passing it through a digital emulator of some sort...what's the point? Once digitized, modulated, attenuated, altered, etc. you sure don't have what you started with! Then, this digitized "sound" must be converted once more back to analog waveform to be able to drive a speaker magnet, cone, etc. I guess some players prefer this, to pure analog all the way through. Maybe I'm old school, but there's no digital in my signal chain.

I've come full circle, from tubes back in the 60's, to solid state in the 80's (no more tube replacments!), and back to all tubes. Without getting too heavy into electronics, I admit that transistors are very linear in response when operated between cutoff and saturation, and are very efficient. It's when the incoming signal amplitude drives the transistor outside of this range, and you get clipping and distortion...kind of like an old "fuzz" box. In a valve, compression takes place instead of clipping, and are not as linear, and certainly not as efficient as transistors...that's why they glow and give off heat. Probably the simplest, but biggest difference, is that transistors are voltage amplifiers, while tubes are current amplifiers. For some, their ears can't detect the difference...I feel kinda sorry for them, because I can.

[charlie brown]

Yeah, I USE that solid state sound (Boss Blues Driver, and Compression Sustainer) to VERY GOOD,

effect, through my old SS (and super reliable) Fender Sidekick 35 Reverb amp. The combo of Compressor

and Blues driver, gives me a very good "Tube" tone. With the "Drive" control, on the Blues Driver (or any

other overdrive pedal, for that matter), I can go from very clean, natural Fender grit, to a Marshall or very

overdriven Fender tone, just by adjusting that one knob. I've always felt, that compressor pedals, were really

developed to give SS amps, a more tube like feeling, in the first place. Sometimes, compressors, through tube

amps, can be "too much" compression. The tube compression already being there, and all. Point is, if you are

the least bit, experimental, and open minded, you can get Great Tone, tube or otherwise, out of most any

combination, provided you're a decent player, to begin with. I've seen this time, and time again, from the

simplist guitar/amp beginner packs, up to full sized dual Marshall stacks, etc. There are Differences, obviously...

but, the simple set-up was very toneful, in the right hands. Good gear, is essential...Uber Expensive gear, is not!

IMHO, as always.

 

Bye the way, I have excellent Tube amps, as well. But, that little Sidekick has saved my bacon, more than once,

when tubes blew, or something fried, in the circuit, of the much more expensive tube amp. Ironically, in all those

cases, it was not the amp itself, that caused the problem, but faulty tubes. ;>b

 

 

CB

[duane v]

Man what were folks thinking back in the 80's ?? That is when the market was flooded with used 70's LP customs.... Everyone traded them in so they could sound like Eddie Van Halen.... I bought my 73 LP custom for $400 in 85

 

Though everyone was going after the brown heavy tone during that era' date=' IMO there was no time better to be a musician in Los Angeles during the years of 1976-1990.... IMO rock is now dead[crying']