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lluis

ZT3, where is it made

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Yes, the Synapse and ZT-3 ad copy & press releases downplay (or doesn't mention) the country of origin. Maybe that is a good thing, as the ZT-3 is (sadly) more expensive than the USA models.

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"Made in Korea" does not necessarily indicate a low quality build, the same way as "Made in America" does not necessarily indicate high quality. Sure, there are a lot of very cheap bottom rung factory workers in Asia, but there are also skilled laborers and engineers just like in any country, and these workers are also a lot cheaper than their counterparts in Europe or America. When the Synapse line first came out (which is also made in Korea), they had some quality issues early on, but these were corrected and I think the Synapse line is a pretty well-made line of instruments. Unfortunately, I think Korea gets a stigma attached to it about producing cheaply made items (just like Japan in the 60s & 70s), but that is increasingly no longer the case. Because of this stigma, however, some companies are understandably a little nervous about introducing high-end items with a big 'Made in Korea' sticker on them. That will change over time, but you can't fault them for not making it a selling point.

 

As for the pricing, the street price of the ZT-3 is a couple of hundred cheaper than the street price of the GM7TA. I would say the prices are comparable. Add on to that the fact that you can no longer buy a USA line instrument, and the argument is moot. I would say we are not going to see the USA line for a long time (if ever). It's existence will be contingent upon the success/failure of the new lines and if it does reappear, it will probably be retooled somewhat (e.g., using the TT3). I would put money on the fact that Gibson will no longer sell TT2s.

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I agree- I own a Synapse, and it is a wonderful guitar. However, with the higher (almost double) price of the new ZT-3, there are lots of choices at that price point. Certainly the only choice with a TT, but when the public (who generally consider Steinberger to be '80s' guitars no matter how us fans feel) is deciding on a +$1500 guitar, it will be a tough sell. I think lots of previous Steinberger fans will love it and buy it, but to get the normally conservative guitar buying mass public interested, it will take many endorsers, and eventually, a lower price.

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I agree. It's tough to sell a TT to someone who doesn't understand it or isn't already familiar with Ned's genius. The retail price of a TT2 would be (if you could buy them) around $800 - probably more. Just for the trem. It's no wonder the ZT3 is expensive. But you are right, the trick is getting the public to understand why they would want/need a TT.

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Hey Trynyty - hopefully some name brand players or COOL bands will get a hold of these new ZT3's and SHOW the guitar playing community all of their musical capabilities and practical advantages. It would be cool to see a whole new generation get turned on to Steinbergers! (or for that matter see some older players finally "get it") As pointed out earlier, guitarist may need to SEE what we saw in these Bergers years ago. Hopefully somebody will come along that does just that. If not, atleast we have a chance to experience the next phase of the Steinbergers developement & legacy.

 

-----bluvtox1-----

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Amen, bluv.

 

They made some inroads with the Synapse basses (which stands to reason), but the boat oar shape just doesn't attract the newer guitar players. We'll see how the ZT3 does.

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I needn't matter but it is going to have to be a lot better than the synapse from a QC point of view .

Is it a similar price on the street to a Parker Nightfly ? because that is US made and has also many unique features.

I personally think it should have Stainless steel 6105 or 6100 sized frets to please it's target audience.

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Is it a similar price on the street to a Parker Nightfly ? because that is US made and has also many unique features.

 

You make it sound like people buy guitars by comparing spec sheets. If that were the case, there would be only one model of guitar made for every price point. I know Parker fans are as rabid as Steinberger fans and that (often times) the two seem at odds with eachother. I just don't see the comparison between the two guitars. You can get the same electronics that come on the Parker on many other guitars. You will not, however, find a TT3 anywhere else. I think 60% of the ZT3 price the TT3 alone. It dominates the construction costs of this guitar. (That's my guess.)

 

As far as QC, I'm guessing they learned a lot from the Synapse ordeal and (hopefully) would not be dumb enough to repeat the same mistakes. I also have to say that the Synapse ordeal was overstated. I bought one of the first TranScales and could not be happier. I know there are many others like me. The problem is that if you have a 5-10% quality issue, those buyers are going to be MUCH more vocal than the 90% who are happy. I don't know what the actual percentage of instruments with (actual QC) issues was, but I'm guessing it was close to that range.

 

Face it, guitars are going to get more and more expensive and other countries are going to build better and better instruments. At some point, 'made in the USA' may actually have negative connotations. I hope I don't see that day, but the point is that you cannot automatically assume that it means a 'superior' instrument. Only time and personal comparisons can make that assessment. Let's see how things go with the rollout.

 

As for bluv's comment, I couldn't agree more. I own Steinbergers because of Eddie Van Halen and Vito Bratta. They made me want one in a bad way. When I could finally afford one, I was elated. Over time, I grew to love the instrument for it's own merits so much that I now have MANY Steinbergers. If it wasn't for the endorsements, however, I probably wouldn't have discovered the brand. Endorsements are CRITICAL to achieve high volume.

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Actually, I think the average consumer really doesn't understand the price similarity between the Parker and the Steinberger- I believe the perception right now is that US guitars are better than non-US. Of course, this is perpetuated by guitar magazines, internet forums, 'blues lawyers' and Gibson themselves. We may know better (I love my Synapse), but it is a hard sell. I love Parkers too, btw- but their US guitars are way better with a lot more innovations than their import models.

 

I know the TT3 is where most of the innovation on the ZT3 is, and most of the price...is it alone worth $1000 of the price of the guitar? Well until you get an EVH of today using it in a real way on a hit song, then probably not. Even then, a ZT3 with a street price of $1000 would sell a lot more guitars...at $1600, unless you are already a Steinberger fan, it is too big a leap to take for the conservative guitar-buying public.

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Nobody could argue that a Synapse is as well made as a US parker ( I have three ) and a Synapse as a travel guitar because I don't want to carry my GL2 around any more (costs too much to insure as a carry about now ). The reason I bring parker in to it is the manufacturing cost implications of all to unique parts and US production. I know the TT3 will be the bulk of the cost but put it on a mediocre Korean guitar and it's over .Is Eppiphone up to it because so far it isn't.

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I believe the perception right now is that US guitars are better than non-US. Of course' date=' this is perpetuated by guitar magazines, internet forums, 'blues lawyers' and Gibson themselves.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I love that. Hoist on their own petard!

 

I know the TT3 is where most of the innovation on the ZT3 is' date=' and most of the price...is it alone worth $1000 of the price of the guitar?[/quote']

 

The TT2 sold through MusicYo for $700. With the TT3, Gibson owns the entire production of the trem and is not dependent upon ZenOn (who owned the casts and actually made the TT2). Because of this, Gibsons cost will/may be cheaper on the TT3 than the TT2. But, you can assume that the value of a TT will be somewhere north of 500 and south of 1000. The engineering and tooling costs of this trem need to be recouped and since it is a unique and proprietary bridge (unavailable anywhere else), that pushes the value up. I'm guessing that if you could buy a TT3 separately, it would be around $850. That is a wild guess. I don't think you'll see a TT3 on a sub-thousand dollar guitar. But, a lower cost bridge alternative could be created. First, however, you need the flagship followed closely by the endorsements. When everyone wants one, then you create the low-cost lines and they'll jump in.

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