Carriyng on from J.J.'s Cream-Tone thread...

[pippy]

I'm pretty much just thinking out loud as I'm typing this so it's akin to a very cheap (I'm Scottish) alternative to a visit with a therapist....please make allowances for this!...it's just me mulling over things and thoughts of last few days. You have been warned!

 

(If you aren't a 'therapist-in-training' then switch off now.)

 

Since I first read Josh's thread five days ago I've been playing my 1995 '1960 Classic' to the exclusion of all else. This is unprecedented!.

 

You see; I didn't really like the sound it made plugged-in. Clearly, for a guitar, this is a big handicap. It plays beautifully; it has the best fret-work out of my LPs. And (most important of all, of course) it's very pretty.

 

But it didn't sound great.

 

Josh' thread got me asking myself what it was exactly that I didn't like about how it sounded. The stock ceramics (Universally despised by everyone except me, it seems) had been swapped for a pair of Seymour Duncans of uncertain pedigree at some point and I wondered 'WHY?' They made the guitar the worst-sounding out of my 3. Nor do the pots and pans, sorry, caps look original.

 

The guitar its'self sounds great - it has a wonderful inherent tone (which is why I ended up buying it - I didn't bother to check out it's amplified sound) - but this wasn't being translated into the amplified sound and this rankled somewhat.

 

So I went back to square-one. I thought "If someone posted this dillemma on the Forum what advice would I offer them?".

 

"Before you decide to swap anything as expensive as the p-ups have you tried adjusting the settings of your guitar and amp? What about the pots and caps? How good are they? (Idiot)." was my reply.

 

Good advice. So I've spent the last 5 days fiddling about and I'm now more than happy with the way things are improving. Some of the amp's settings had, and I really mean this literally, never been altered in the last 25 years! Rather astonishingly I had found the settings which were ideal for my '64 Strat still admirably suited the R0 which replaced it (I did try other settings but came back to the same ones). Later on only slight adjustments to the amp were needed for my ceramic-equipped '91 'Classic'; in her case most of the adjustments necessary were on the guitar's vol / tone circuit.

 

Not so with the '95 'Classic', though. It sounded hollow, thin and pretty dead.

 

It turns out the SD p-ups are very different (no ****, Sherlock) to both the '57 Classics and the 496 / 500 pairings in her siblings. Much jiggery-pokery was required to get it to open-up but, once I stumbled across the right general direction things improved dramatically.

 

Several points have cropped up as a result of all this mucking about;

The first of which is; "If I feel enough of a clever-clogs to spout out advice to others I should be fully expected to act on that very same advice for myself!"

Secondly; It may be (in this case read 'it is') neccessary to adopt a slightly different playing style to get the best out of different instruments.

Thirdly; Are you finished? Are you finally Happy?

 

Well, No.

 

I'm not happy with the current pots and caps. I don't like the way they work. Both the other guitars have 500k pots and are 'vintage-wired' which has means the vol / tone circuitry acts in a quite peculiar way - which I like. The current set-up is much more 'normal' where everything works in a more linear fashion. I am used to the state where everything happens in the last 1/64th of a turn of the knob.

 

All I've read about PIO caps over the last two years suggests there is more to come if I were to go down that route.

 

If anyone can give advice as to which caps I should try I'm all ears.

 

I know a little about Bumblebees, Grey Tigers (are they the same thing as some have suggested?) but am more than willing to read it all again.

 

If you've got this far you need help!

 

Cheers.

[BlackBeauty]

I wouldn't take it as gospel that PIOs are the way to go. It really depends on what you're after. I hated the bees, vitQs and jensens I used to have. I ended up preferring the effect of polypropylene caps instead. And I know I'm not the only one.

 

So think about what you expect from your guitar first before deciding on what to buy.

 

Also, with regards to your pickups, remember the age old adage: "you can't polish a turd."

[T Bone]

On that last note, ( ) have you considered going back to the stock PUP's (buying a set like those that were there originally)? You say everyone dislikes them but you, does that mean you can pick some up cheaply?

 

Alternatively, have you considered Burstbuckers? (I would be suggesting my favorites, the '57 Classics, but I think you mentioned you've already got a set in another guitar, and variety is a great thing!).

[Josh James]

I can get a decent tone with the 490r 498t that are stock in mine, but it just dosen't have that "it" I'm looking for! Sound's great for metal, but I don't play metal! I really just going to go with the matched SD 59 set. I really dig the clips of them that I have found, and it does venture into the "Cream" tone quite well into a pushed amp. I dunno, I suppose we shall see when I get her back...

 

 

 

 

 

J.J.

[BlackBeauty]

If you want cream, and from SDs, then I'd say the SH55s might be a better bet. Tried those yet?

[pippy]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

 

I haven't tried anything else in the thing yet.

 

Having researched the SDs I have (Antiquities) most everyone who has them raves about them so, unless my particular pair are duds (unlikely), I think the answer must lie elsewhere.

 

In an ideal world I'd take everything off my R0 - pups, caps, pots, switch, wiring - and fit it to see if they sound the same in the other instrument and vice-versa but it's a lot of hassle...

 

Swapping caps and pots is inexpensive and shouldn't take too long. My local 'pop and mom' dealership can get CTS pots and any caps I wish. I'll keep looking.

 

Thanks again.

[BlackBeauty]

Despite the fact that my fav winder now is skatterbrane, and they're all I use now, I have to say I much preferred the Seth lovers to the antiquities. The antiquities really didn't do it for me.

[pippy]

That's interesting.

 

Did you find them a bit thin and weedy sounding, by any chance!?

[BlackBeauty]

Which? Antiquities? No. I found them dull and lifeless. Missing that nice quacky tone stemming from asymmetrically wound coils. They were a bit too smooth and had a lack of dynamics. They didn't sing... More like a "bark" than sing.

 

But thin? No. Not thin.

[pippy]

I only aked as that was my initial poblem with them which now seems not to have been the problem. I'm guessing that you have had more experience of them than I have, though.

 

The thing I can't figure out seems to be the tone circuitry - hence my perseverance along the caps and pots route - where rolling-off the tone results in a 'cotton-wool' like effect emerging...

 

Not ideal!

[FennRx]

put an RS kit with luxe bee caps in it. swap the pickups to WCR Crossroads.

[Josh James]

I decided that the versatility of the 59 in the neck and pearly gates in bridge would allow me to do some harder rocking stuff without going metal! Like I said, I really dig Leslie West style and tone and I think mixing these two pup's will give me as close as I can without going p90. Tone is so subjective, but at least we all agree Gibson's are the finest guitars in the world.

 

 

 

 

J

[pippy]

...put an RS kit with luxe bee caps in it. swap the pickups to WCR Crossroads...

 

I checked out the WCR p-ups after you mentioned them on J.J.'s original thread and the clips provided (from memory) were a bit too overdriven to hear how they really sound.

 

...I decided that the versatility of the 59 in the neck and pearly gates in bridge would allow me to do some harder rocking stuff without going metal!

 

As it is the Antiquities do actually give me a great 'early' Pearly Gates sound (Shakin' Your Tree; Just Got Back from Baby's etc...) but my preferred tone is nowhere near as overdriven as that 99% of the time...

 

As far as the other p-ups mentioned so far are concerned;

 

The ceramics don't seem to crop up for sale as often as I'd expect but even then I know, from the set I have, they are not ideal.

Yes I have a pair of '57 Classics and love them to pieces.

When hunting down my Historic I tried out literally dozens of BB equipped instruments and none of them jumped out as being 'special' for me.

I haven't checked out either of the SH55's, SD59's, the Seth Lover's or anything by Skatterbrane. When I've some time I'll do so.

 

My main problem with sound clips is that most of the ones I've heard lean heavily on the overdriven sound whereas 'my' preference is for a slightly bigger-bodied 'BB King' with a rolled-off treble - if that makes any sense whatsoever!

 

I must thank you all again for your input. It's giving me a lot to work on.

[BlackBeauty]

I know what you mean by rolling off into wool. I used to have a lot of that, and after I starting using my waterbranes from skatterbrane, and paired with an RS modern kit (polypropylene caps) that wooly thing was gone. I did both in stages, an I have to say both components played a part.

 

Ive also known the people who have had that similar results with PIO caps, but same skatterbrane pickups.

[BlackBeauty]

Btw, check out the skatterbrane clips on www.skatterbrane.com to hear some clean clips, or www.soundclick.com/demioblue and check out "old friends" for a waterbrane clip. I tried all the quick and simple tone combos on that clip.

[FennRx]

 

this guy makes the Crossroads sing