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Norlin SGs...What Are They?


taxman

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OK, thanks to the good folks here I just found out that one of my favorite players - Justin Sullivan of New Model Army - played a Norlin-era SG.

 

NMASG.jpg

 

 

I found another pic of a Norlin SG -- that odd looking SG in the middle with that freaked out control panel, right?

 

Picture029.jpg

 

Well it seems Justin Sullivan of New Model Army also played one of those red burst Norlin SGs with that crazy control panel:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBtbf2LQWdo&feature=related

 

 

 

Here's a guy who obviously had a preference for Norlin-era SGs. I wonder why?

 

My questions:

1. What exactly are Norlin-era SGs? I know of Baldwin-era Gretsches and those are seen as inferior models. Are Norlins viewed as inferior?

 

2. Anything particular to Norlin SGs, like that crazy control panel and different finishes?

 

3. Why would a guy have a preference for Norlin SGs over the regular ones? Do they offer something different, something special?

 

4. Does the fact that the player Justin Sullivan is from some small town in England account for his buying of Norlins...in other words, were they flooded into one market?

 

I suppose you think I could wiki this information but I'd much rather hear personal opinions and hands on experience, rather than clinical wikipedia facts.

 

Thanks for anything you can share.

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1. Norlin took over Gibson in December 1969, although there seems to be some disagreement over exactly when the Norlin era began.

 

2. During the Norlin era various changes were made in the construction of most Gibson models. The Norlin era acoustic instruments are generally regarded as inferior. Many would say the same about Norlin era electrics, but they did actually make some good electric guitars during the Norlin era. They also introduced a lot of new instruments most of which did not do well. Examples include the L6-S, Marauder, Sonex etc

 

3. I'm not sure that too many people would have a preference for a Norlin era Gibson over another. He probably didn't go out to specifically get a Norlin era SG. I have a Norlin era Les Paul Deluxe and it's a great guitar, but I didn't go out looking specifically for a Norlin era guitar. I just bought it because I liked it.

 

4. No. I think maybe you are trying to read too much into his choice of guitar. It probably has more to do with his age. He probably bought it in the 70's or 80's new when all the new Gibsons in guitar stores in both the USA and UK etc were Norlin Gibsons.

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My questions:

1. What exactly are Norlin-era SGs? I know of Baldwin-era Gretsches and those are seen as inferior models. Are Norlins viewed as inferior?

The Norlin company purchased Gibson in 1969, Norlin was a South American brewing conglomerate, E.C.L. who later changed their name to Norlin. Yes Norlins are typically known as crappy.

 

2. Anything particular to Norlin SGs, like that crazy control panel and different finishes?

Yes. Anything at all that seems odd, was probably Norlin. Norlin's had larger headstocks, small block inlays on standards instead of the typical trapezoid. Just Google 70's SG's and you'll see a ton of whacked out things Norlin did.

 

3. Why would a guy have a preference for Norlin SGs over the regular ones? Do they offer something different, something special?

They offer price. You can get a 70's Norlin SG on egay for 400-800 bucks, most of the time or 1,000-1,400 for the more popular models.

 

4. Does the fact that the player Justin Sullivan is from some small town in England account for his buying of Norlins...in other words, were they flooded into one market?

No. Every Gibson made between 1969 and 1986 was manufactured under Norlin ownership, so any person on the face of the planet that has a Gibson made within those years has a Norlin era Gibson.

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Thanks very much for the very informative replies. Good stuff.

 

I play Gretsches and I am aware of their dark years - known as the Baldwin years when Baldwin (the piano company) took control. Didn't know Gibson had similar dark years.

 

And, yeah, the guitarist from New Model Army came of age during the 70s, so as you suggested he probably simply bought the guitars that were around which were these Norlins.

 

I have to be honest with you. I have all the guitars I always wanted...all except a Gibson SG, and when I buy one I just might be buying one of these Norlins. I like the look of that gloss brown, you say they are cheaper, and one of my faves played one. If I find one I'll definitely consider it.

 

Thanks again.

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3. Why would a guy have a preference for Norlin SGs over the regular ones? Do they offer something different, something special?

They offer price. You can get a 70's Norlin SG on egay for 400-800 bucks, most of the time or 1,000-1,400 for the more popular models.

 

 

1- So would a Norlin era SG be a good model for someone wanting a Gibson SG ?

 

2- Did 17 years of Norlins produce any good ones ?

 

3- Do any of you have one ?

 

I like the look of it.

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1- So would a Norlin era SG be a good model for someone wanting a Gibson SG ?

It depends on what you want in a guitar. I have a few SG's, and like most people with a few, I want a few more. But I'd probably never get a Norlin era SG unless someone was willing to pay ME to take it off their hands.

 

2- Did 17 years of Norlins produce any good ones ?

They early years are know as the best years, so with those you'll have to pay a higher price. (see link, I chose that model because the SG in your avatar is left handed)

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370390622871&rvr_id=131325864690&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WXS%3F&GUID=3748489d12a0a06c1b71a661ffdd72cb&itemid=370390622871&ff4=263602_263622

 

Also one that question, many people believe a lot of models put out in those years were decent, excluding SG's. Most people agree practically the entire Norlin era sucked for SG's.

 

3- Do any of you have one?

I don't think I've seen anyone around here with one, but maybe someone does and just hasn't said so yet.

 

EDIT: Duane has one, I believe he said he's had it since he was like 10 or something. So check with him.

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They can be pretty hit or miss. Some are great and some are not so great. I've played a couple standards that were good. I like the "The SG".

 

I like Norlin Les Pauls, particularly the Customs and Deluxes. To be honest I don't like most Norlin SG models. I would get a Standard if it was good and cheap.

 

Neogeoriffic has a '70s Standard that looks really sweet. Murph has a The SG that also looks sweet. I haven't seen either around on the forums in a while though.

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Huh, sounds similar to what the CBS Corp. did to the Fender designs, happened around the same time too. Bigger headstock, 3-bolt neck a few other design discrepancies that made the guitar's playability a little less. Thats what happens when you let a company that big get their hands on a line of guitars. They sacrifice quality for quantity, maybe makes the guitars a little less expensive but thats the only thing going in the customer's favor.

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anyone who dismisses Norlin-era Gibsons under the blanket of "crap" is about as reliable of a source as Ed Roman.

 

Sure, some Norlin era guitars were not up to par. However if you bought a Gibson in that era new, it was a Norlin. Many famous rock and metal albums were recorded on "crappy norlin era" gibsons. All of the Blizzard of Oz album was recorded with Randy Rhoads playing on a Norlin LP Custom. He didn't get the RR guitars made until later.

 

Why are these artists using them? probably because they are great guitars.

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A lot of the Norlin era guitars are no where near crap. For example, Angus Young's first SG was a 1970 Norlin era SG. This guitar was used for all their Bon Scott-era records (70's) and the first few in the early 80's, both live and in the studio.

 

However, many of the Norlin era guitars were crap. Many of them were made out of far cheaper materials than their 60's brethren.

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anyone who dismisses Norlin-era Gibsons under the blanket of "crap" is about as reliable of a source as Ed Roman.

 

Sure, some Norlin era guitars were not up to par. However if you bought a Gibson in that era new, it was a Norlin. Many famous rock and metal albums were recorded on "crappy norlin era" gibsons. All of the Blizzard of Oz album was recorded with Randy Rhoads playing on a Norlin LP Custom. He didn't get the RR guitars made until later.

 

Why are these artists using them? probably because they are great guitars.

 

To be fair, if you play a pre Norlin SG, and a Henry era SG, then play a Norlin SG, I'm sure you will feel a little disappointed. Just remember we are comparing Norlin era to other Gibson era's. Not comparing them to todays low end Epiphones, and when you compare you learn how lame it was. I am also taking mainly of SG's, as this is the SG section, and I believe the question was raised to find out about Norlin SG's.

 

BTW, I love the comment about Ed Roman, I'm totally going to use that some time.

 

A lot of the Norlin era guitars are no where near crap. For example, Angus Young's first SG was a 1970 Norlin era SG. This guitar was used for all their Bon Scott-era records (70's) and the first few in the early 80's, both live and in the studio.

 

However, many of the Norlin era guitars were crap. Many of them were made out of far cheaper materials than their 60's brethren.

 

There is no proof of the date of Angus's guitar. Many believe it to be a 68. Me I think it's either a 68 or 69. But it's possible for it to be a 70 either way it's an extremely early Norlin era SG. At that time the SG hadn't undergone many changes yet. I don't think the true Norlin destruction of the SG was until 71 (fallow link for the normal looking 70's SG's and the jacked looking 71' SG's).

 

http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/SGtimeline70s.php

 

Fun pic of Angus's guitar just for the heck.

4304010686_0b399d0142_o.jpg

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There is no proof of the date of Angus's guitar. Many believe it to be a 68. Me I think it's either a 68 or 69. But it's possible for it to be a 70 either way it's an extremely early Norlin era SG. At that time the SG hadn't undergone many changes yet. I don't think the true Norlin destruction of the SG was until 71 (fallow link for the normal looking 70's SG's and the jacked looking 71' SG's).

 

http://www.vintagegu...timeline70s.php

 

Fun pic of Angus's guitar just for the heck.

4304010686_0b399d0142_o.jpg

 

I've read some pretty solid stuff proving to me that it's a 70'. It has a volute, a trait which the 68' and 69' SG's do not have. In fact it looks just like a 69' SG but with a volute. Which leads me to believe it's a 70'.

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  • 3 months later...

I picked out my '76 SG Standard when it was brand new in 1977. I loved the look and the tone I heard from earlier players of the model. It was my first real guitar, and I knew nothing about Norlin or anything else for that matter... the look, the tone.

 

I also loved the way it felt right out of the box. It felt like quality, and played like a dream. I didn't have an amp for the longest time, but played through a friend's Marshall that must've been a plexi considering it was a beat up looking head setting on top of a 4x12. I thought it sounded great, but my friend - who was a gigging musician - wasn't so impressed. I thought it was because he was jealous that mine was new, and his old Les Paul was tired and worn out (it was a '58!). Again, I knew nothing about guitars then.

 

Anyway, I still have this guitar, and over time I was 'educated' that my guitar was inferior because it was made during the Norlin era. The only thing I found inferior was the electronics and hardware - probably some Norlin cost-cutting thing. The fit and finish have held up nicely - but I decided that since I will always own this guitar to make some changes. Although my friend's '58 Les Paul was never a fair comparison, I'll put my SG up against any slim 60s neck'd SG.

 

Swaps (all original stuff is in the case):

 

Tarback humbuckers to Gibson Pat. No. Sticker'd humbuckers

Stock elex to RS Guitarworks Superpots 500K & 500K tones; vintage .022uF Bumble Bees

Stock Schaller (harmonica "weird large bridge") to Callaham ABR-1 & studs

Stock stopbar to Gotoh aluminum & TonePros locking studs

Speed knobs to 1971 Gibson knobs (came with my ES-175)

 

Granted, the upgrades cost more than what I paid for my '76 SG w/ case in 1977, but it's 4 times the guitar it was.

 

 

IMG_7450.jpgDSC_0558.jpg

662006_2008-01220045.jpgIMG_0958.jpg

IMG_0835.jpgDSC_6273.jpg

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Swaps (all original stuff is in the case):

 

Tarback humbuckers to Gibson Pat. No. Sticker'd humbuckers

Stock elex to RS Guitarworks Superpots 500K & 500K tones; vintage .022uF Bumble Bees

Stock Schaller (harmonica "weird large bridge") to Callaham ABR-1 & studs

Stock stopbar to Gotoh aluminum & TonePros locking studs

Speed knobs to 1971 Gibson knobs (came with my ES-175)

 

Granted, the upgrades cost more than what I paid for my '76 SG w/ case in 1977, but it's 4 times the guitar it was.

 

 

Funny you changed the pickups, may I ask you why ?

I changed the "tarback" ones on my first Custom SG, replaced them with "classic humbuckers" as they called them in 1976, out of pure "ignorance" and ended up using one of them to improve the sound of my 1989 Les Paul Standard ... so maybe these pickups weren't that bad, were they ?

 

I admit one flaw, the middle PU is out of phase with the neck PU and since they're sealed there's no way one can reverse the phase ...

 

And did the new bridge really improved the sound ?

In which way ?

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Norlin Gibsons are not really bad.

 

The Norlin era is more known for its designing faults, like oversized SG's, the Marauder, RD, S1 etc.

I personally like the Norlin Gibby's, I own a 1978 RD, 1978 Marauder and a 1971 SG 200.

The quality of these guitars is good, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

 

The SG's from the Norlin era where pretty different than before and after Norlin, the body's were a little bigger, horns were shapet different and of course the control-plates on some SG models.

 

The LP's had pancake body's (2 parts mahony glued on top of each other and the maple top glued on top)

 

In the norlin era, a lot of necks were made of 3 parts of wood, instead of 1 part (this was for the lower production costst)but it did'nt make the neck less strong.

 

A lot of Gibsons form the Norlin era are very good and they are reliable, and were built to last for a very long time.

 

Dont't be afraid to buy one, it won't let you down.

I would never sell my Marauder and i built a pre-amp booster in it and it has one of the best lead sound in the world, and the Marauder is just as alround as a Telecaster, but better, so if you want to buy a Fender Telecaster, first try a Marauder, its so much better and cheaper to get your hands on.

 

Here are my Gibsons (the double neck is not a Gibson, but a very goed 1977 Custom by Matsumoku, made in Japan)

 

HPIM3268.jpg

 

HPIM3270.jpg

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Funny you changed the pickups, may I ask you why ?

I changed the "tarback" ones on my first Custom SG, replaced them with "classic humbuckers" as they called them in 1976, out of pure "ignorance" and ended up using one of them to improve the sound of my 1989 Les Paul Standard ... so maybe these pickups weren't that bad, were they ?

 

I admit one flaw, the middle PU is out of phase with the neck PU and since they're sealed there's no way one can reverse the phase ...

 

And did the new bridge really improved the sound ?

In which way ?

 

The Tarbacks, to me, sounded less defined than a standard PAF-voiced pickup. By that I mean the clarity between strings. Power chords sounded awesome - big punch, but more refined chords, even 7th's, were muddy. Bite and attack was not as prevalent with the Tarbacks on leads. The Pat. No. Sticker'd pickups are a vast improvement to the style of music I play - 60s/70s rock, blues.

 

The new bridge really enhanced the strings' energy. This is most evident acoustically (I can feel it now when playing) - and it probably adds to the clarity of the notes.

 

I'm not saying the Tarbacks are bad pickups. I'm saying for the style of music I play, truer to spec PAF style pickups work best to suit the need.

 

I am saying the electronic's were less than desirable, for me.

 

I am saying the strings' engery seemed to die on the old bridge - not allowing it to pass to the body of the guitar.

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The Tarbacks, to me, sounded less defined than a standard PAF-voiced pickup. By that I mean the clarity between strings. Power chords sounded awesome - big punch, but more refined chords, even 7th's, were muddy. Bite and attack was not as prevalent with the Tarbacks on leads. The Pat. No. Sticker'd pickups are a vast improvement to the style of music I play - 60s/70s rock, blues.

 

The new bridge really enhanced the strings' energy. This is most evident acoustically (I can feel it now when playing) - and it probably adds to the clarity of the notes.

 

I'm not saying the Tarbacks are bad pickups. I'm saying for the style of music I play, truer to spec PAF style pickups work best to suit the need.

 

I am saying the electronic's were less than desirable, for me.

 

I am saying the strings' engery seemed to die on the old bridge - not allowing it to pass to the body of the guitar.

Thanks for the explanation. This makes sense to me. what you say about the bridge may not be as "vital" to me since my SG is Bigsby equipped ... at least at the moment. Yet I saw the saddles were not very tightly fit ... i may try another bridge soon.
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Murph has a The SG that also looks sweet. I haven't seen either around on the forums in a while though.

 

It's not crap. The same luthiers built em', in Kalamazoo, with the same tools.

 

Give me a break.

 

Only a moron would say all Norlins are CRAP.......

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  • 9 years later...

Bit late to the party seing as the original thread was started in 2010, but...

The mid 70s Norlins have a rounder (C shape) neck and are a lot more narrow at the nut. Justin accidentally found this out with the red SG with the odd controls.

When that guitar got broken, he searched for a similar year/neck shape SG as he liked the feel of the neck. That's the one in the picture. This guitar has had a million and one changes/repairs plus a bunch of neck breaks but it sounds great, and he loves it.

He still has the old broken one knocking around somewhere I believe. 

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Marshall. 

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