E-minor7 Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 This J-45 Standard has the semitransparent teardrop pickguard. All very common. But what is the story about it covering 1/4 of the rosette. I thought it was being true to some extraordinary old model and then an hour ago my good friend is on the phone saying I might be wrong. Admit I don't know. I've seen this discussed before, can't recall where. You amazing Forum-people know the story, I'm sure. Is there a reference or did Gibson cross the line for no specific reason but, , , don't know what - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMELEYE Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 Yep, crossed the line is a good one. Was at the Gibson promo trailer earlier today and put that same issue to their rep. Pointed it out on the many fine guitars on display. May have been BS, but the rep said he'd never noticed this, thought it looked "wrong" too, and would take it up with Ren when they return to Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 Funny you should mention this. I brought this up not long after joining this forum along with the fact that I'd thought about replacing the pickguard on my J-45 TV with another so that I could place it just outside of the rosette, (like an actual vintage J-45). I was scolded by some back them for what seemed like picking on Gibson I suppose. Best I can tell, this pickguard placement trend on the J-45s (along with some other models) seems to coincide with the move to Bozeman all those years ago. If someone has different information, I wouldn't mind being set straight on this matter. Interestingly enough, while not a teardrop shape, the pickguard placement on the current AJs looks spot on, just like they used to place 'em (even if the pickguards themselves look quite a bit different). All the best, Guth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted September 3, 2010 Author Share Posted September 3, 2010 , , ,but the rep said he'd never noticed this, thought it looked "wrong" too, and would take it up with Ren when they return to Montana. Hadn't noticed it ! . . are they kiddin'. The rest of the Gibson world has been wondering their heads balled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 You know, it's kind of funny, but this was something that I myself hadn't noticed until I purchased my own J-45. I don't recall the pickguard on my '91 J-30 that I used to own being placed this same way, although it is a possibility. In addition to the J-30, I also previously owned a Bozeman-made J-50 as well as a J-35. Both had different style pickguards and different placements. Honestly, it wasn't until I bought my '08 J-45 TV that I noticed the different placement of the teardrop pickguard, although looking throuh numerous photos it appears that this is simply how Bozeman has been cranking out J-45s all along. All the best, Guth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 You know, it's kind of funny, but this was something that I myself hadn't noticed until I purchased my own J-45. I don't recall the pickguard on my '91 J-30 that I used to own being placed this same way, although it is a possibility. In addition to the J-30, I also previously owned a Bozeman-made J-50 as well as a J-35. Both had different style pickguards and different placements. Honestly, it wasn't until I bought my '08 J-45 TV that I noticed the different placement of the teardrop pickguard, although looking throuh numerous photos it appears that this is simply how Bozeman has been cranking out J-45s all along. All the best, Guth Yeah, I've posted about the same thing a few times and been told I was being picky. To me it looks sloppy. It's not just the J-45 either Still, it seems very inconsistent (what's new, right?) Yesterday I was looking at pics of two early 90's Nick Lucas reissues. One had the p/g placed correctly, the other had it covering all of the rosette right up to the soundhole. Personally, if I were to buy a new Gibson the first thing I would do would be to remove the pickguard and get a proper replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisA83 Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 I agree that it looks a bit wrong.... ....but is this just so it protects more of the wood? Well more of the wood closer to the soundhole where wear commonly happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenumber2 Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 The guard on my J-45 lines up with the inner ring of the rosette instead of the outer. At least it lines up with something I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustystrings Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 Every single VINTAGE Gibson flat-top I've owned had the pickguard done in such a way that the whole inner ring was showing. My 2005 Historic Collection, which I love more than any of the vintages ones I used to have, had the guard covering the treble side of the rosette. It bothered me from day one. I finally, in disgust, peeled my pickguard off a couple of weeks back. The curve of the guard is EXACTLY correct if you place it where it ought to go - and I fully intend to break out some naptha and re-attach this same guard with some of the Stewart-McDonald adhesive backing, whenever I get around to ordering some. But it would be nice if the folks in Bozeman just put the guard where it belongs to begin with. They get so, so, so much of it right, and dropping the ball on this little detail is just frustrating. I mean, REALLY? You can't send it out with this very visible feature placed where it belongs? It's not just that the scratchplate is placed too far inboard - there's something just a bit off about the juncture of the fretboard and the soundhole on current production Gibson guitars. I know the pre-'55, 19-fret J-45s show all of their soundhole rosette - but I went back and looked at pictures, and at least as recently as 1960, 20-fret J-45s and LG-2s showed the whole ring, as well. I don't know if it's because the angle of the X-brace is closer to perpendicular than the old ones, or why, but it's different, and noticeable, at least to those of us with OCD kinda tendencies ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Guy Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 Every single VINTAGE Gibson flat-top I've owned had the pickguard done in such a way that the whole inner ring was showing. My 2005 Historic Collection, which I love more than any of the vintages ones I used to have, had the guard covering the treble side of the rosette. It bothered me from day one. I finally, in disgust, peeled my pickguard off a couple of weeks back. The curve of the guard is EXACTLY correct if you place it where it ought to go - and I fully intend to break out some naptha and re-attach this same guard with some of the Stewart-McDonald adhesive backing, whenever I get around to ordering some. Very interesting! I too have a 2005 Historic Collection J-45 which I love......except for the pick guard position. But I've been terrified about peeling it off in case I damage the finish or find that the sunburst has faded etc. How did you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Very interesting! I too have a 2005 Historic Collection J-45 which I love......except for the pick guard position. But I've been terrified about peeling it off in case I damage the finish or find that the sunburst has faded etc. How did you do it? This may help. http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/pickguards.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustystrings Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Very interesting! I too have a 2005 Historic Collection J-45 which I love......except for the pick guard position. But I've been terrified about peeling it off in case I damage the finish or find that the sunburst has faded etc. How did you do it? DISCLAIMER: This is what I did, I take no responsibility for anyone else doing this, blah, blah, blah - I used the edge of a well-played Dunlop Tortex pick to start at the corner, then gently worked it along around the edges and SLOWLY peeled the pickguard off. No harm done to the finish, lotsa gobs of adhesive still on the soundboard and the back of the guard. For the moment, it's pretty much like that still. I need to clean both with some naptha and get some proper adhesive sheets to reattach it where it should go. Someday. Those of you with small children will understand ... There was no tanline on mine, but my guitar lives in its case unless I'm playing. Again, those with small children will understand ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Traditionally, you can put the pickguard on or over anything you want. (This is Gibson, Remember? Check out some of the photos in the "Fabulous Flat-Top" book.) When I replaced the factory guard with another on my L-00, I tried placing the new one next to the rosette, but didn't really like the way it looked- so opted to cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Check out some of the photos in the "Fabulous Flat-Top" book. I have a copy of the FFT book here with me and took a look through it. I'm not able to find a photo of a J-45, or any other slope shouldered jumbo where the teardrop shaped pickguard covers up the small rosette rings (not including the Bozeman produced guitars). The SJ includes extra, larger rosette rings that are covered by the teardrop pickguard, but not the smaller inner rosette rings. All the best, Guth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 It's all about the radius of the pickguard........that determines where it lies in relation to the rosette, assuming you want the two radii to follow one another perfectly. Measure your pickguard radius then find the same on the rosette........that's where it should lie. Best way to get a guard fitting other than the stock one is via the radius of where you want to place it on the rosette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 It's all about the radius of the pickguard........that determines where it lies in relation to the rosette, assuming you want the two radii to follow one another perfectly. Exactly. That's why I find the current placement of the teardrop guard to be irritating. It obviously has a radius appropriate for a different placement, more than likely on the outside edge of the small rosette rings. Like they used to place 'em. All the best, Guth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 I have a copy of the FFT book here with me and took a look through it. I'm not able to find a photo of a J-45, or any other slope shouldered jumbo where the teardrop shaped pickguard covers up the small rosette rings (not including the Bozeman produced guitars). The SJ includes extra, larger rosette rings that are covered by the teardrop pickguard, but not the smaller inner rosette rings/quote] My copy has many slopes with the rosette rings covered up---starting with the Jumbo 55s and a J50... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 My copy has many slopes with the rosette rings covered up---starting with the Jumbo 55s and a J50... Yes, but not with the teardrop pickguard (that I could find). Guth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustystrings Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 I just go with what I've seen in EVERY old Gibson acoustic I've handled or seen - which is a pretty decent number of guitars. The small, inner-most rosette rings were NOT covered in the past. Outer, larger diameter rosette rings like those seen on J-50s in the 60s, and on SJs earlier on, might be covered - but the inner-most rings weren't. And yeah, the radius of the guard indicates it really should be somewhere immediately outside the inner rings, and the current placement just looks goofy. Why even bother putting the rosette rings in if they're gonna be covered up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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