albertjohn Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Now then. I have just returned from a brief visit to my teacher's workshop for a quick cup of coffee. In attendance was one of his other playing partners; a supremely talented guitarist and Gibson owner who is repairing his ES335 recently damaged in a fire. BBQed binding - mojo or what?. We inevitably got speaking about my quest for a 12er. Their combined view is that I was better off with a mid priced Yamaha, Tak etc than a Gibson or Guild. The reasoning being that the 12 sound comes more from the top and you are looking for different qualities. i.e. more singing choral harmonics as opposed to single note articulation you might want from you high end 6 str. Personally, I haven't tried finger picking my current 12 I just strum it. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I'm not sure I agree with that or not. I own a Yamaha, Martin, Takamine and Gibson. All but the Takamine have spruce tops. The Takamine has cedar. The Takamine and Martin have mahogany b/s, whereas the Gibson has RW. The Yamaha has a spruce top, but laminated b/s, so for the purpose of discussion, I'll leave that one out of the mix for now. The Takamine and Martin sound nearly the same, whereas the Gibson is very different. I'd have to believe the back and side wood contribute to the difference in sound. Otherwise, the Martin and Gibson would sound the same and the Takamine would be different (using your friend's theory). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Luthiers I have had contact with tend to say that most of the tone for acoustic guitars comes from the top wood of the guitar as that is the part the resonates (ie, moves, vibrates etc) the most by design. Back and sides obviously contribute to the overall tone but most of the sound comes from the top. That said, I believe that different tone woods help to aid in rounding out the sound. My preference in a 12 string, based on the tones or overall sound I like has mostly come from a sitka spruce top with mahogany or maple back and sides. What I have figured out is that those two tone woods have a quicker decay than say Rosewood, koa, or some other woods. I once played a Taylor with cedar top and walnut back/sides that was a fabulous guitar, but my favorite 12 string ever played was a Gallagher Doc Watson 12 string that featured a sitka top and hog back/sides. It had clarity and bell like chiming without getting fuzzy or bleeding the strings together. It was a fingerstyle players delight. I also look at my favorite 12 string player, Leo Kottke. His signature series 12 string is a Sitka/Hog guitar. Now the bracing on the Taylor LKSM 12 string guitar is such that you want to tune it down from standard but it is a great guitar for DADGAD or Drop D style tunings. I have played a couple Martin 12 strings with Spruce top and laminate rosewood back and sides that far from impressed me. I also have played an old Guild that I would rate right up there with the Gallagher but I don't know what the wood combo was on that one. Another awesome 12 string I played was a Hoffman 12 string that was sitting at the Podium music store in Minneapolis, MN. I believe it was a sitka/maple guitar and it was priced way above my means but it sounded heavenly!!! If I were to choose a 12 string, I think I would likely go with Sitka/Mahogany or Sitka/Maple for my fingerstyle type of playing. I also think it is hard to beat the playability of Taylor 12 strings. They just feel so right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 There IS something about Taylor 12 string guitars that makes them stand out. All Taylor guitars feel wonderful in my hands but almost all the 6 strings just lack something... I dunno... some oomph I guess. However, the 12 string is where Bob Taylor has discovered some kind of secret. I don't know a better sounding 12 string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 There IS something about Taylor 12 string guitars that makes them stand out. All Taylor guitars feel wonderful in my hands but almost all the 6 strings just lack something... I dunno... some oomph I guess. However' date=' the 12 string is where Bob Taylor has discovered some kind of secret. I don't know a better sounding 12 string.[/quote']By the miracle of blackberry I'm able to reply from Gatwick Airport at 1 am waiting for the rest of my brood from hols - 3 hour delay! I've only played 1 Taylor 12 a basic model recently and I know what you mean. It was fabulous but beyond my budget.It knocked spots off the 2 60s Gibsons JT and I played that day. TP the Tak I have my eye on is a solid cedar top with solid hog back and lam hog sides with no pickguard or bling bar gold tuners. Electro so suits me well. I'll update in due course. Appreciate the responses and welcome any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonjunkie Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I played a Gibson J-150 12 string at the Nashville Gibson Showcase last year. That was the nicest 12 String I ever played (or heard). My goal (eventually) is to get a Hummingbird 12 to match my 6 string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 I played a Gibson J-150 12 string at the Nashville Gibson Showcase last year. That was the nicest 12 String I ever played (or heard). I too have played one and agree, it is a wonderful instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 love the new avatar, AJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 TP the Tak I have my eye on is a solid cedar top with solid hog back and lam hog sides with no pickguard or bling bar gold tuners. Electro so suits me well. I'll update in due course. Appreciate the responses and welcome any more. GS, sorry I got confused, it is you who has the Tak and Yamaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Now listen AJ Lets cut to the chase here! You know what TP and Drathbun (Hi to you BTW) say makes sense. The Taylor is the king of 12 strings (IMHO). My SWD might be prettier than the Taylor you and I played in Hanks but the Taylor eats it and spits it back in terms of playability (<IF such a word exists in English or American LOL)(IMHO) If you can find a neck like that on a TAK thats fantastic, the last time I saw a neck that good it was on Nicole Kidman! Buy the Taylor! No need for further debate or controvesty.(IMHO) According to another post from you and I quote By the miracle of blackberry I'm able to reply from Gatwick Airport at 1 am waiting for the rest of my brood from hols - 3 hour delay! Your "brood" have been on holiday so let them now eat dry bread and gruel for a few months whilst you perfect that rundown for "Here comes the Sun" and the Leo Kotte Songbook (part1) BR John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I used to own a Guild 1974 F312 NT.....you could strum a chord on that thing, go make a sandwich, and it would still be ringing as you came back!!! Those old guilds were built like a tank....and had a much better reputation than Martins or Gibsons of the time. The top on my guitar had to be 3/16" thick, and it had a double truss rod which helped to take any tweaks out of the neck. Sadly, a lot of these guitars need neck resets because of all the tension of the 12 strings. SO check the action carefully....but these are GREAT 12 strings.....Good luck hunting!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I used to own a Guild 1974 F312 NT.....you could strum a chord on that thing' date=' go make a sandwich, and it would still be ringing as you came back!!! Those old guilds were built like a tank....and had a much better reputation than Martins or Gibsons of the time. The top on my guitar had to be 3/16" thick, and it had a double truss rod which helped to take any tweaks out of the neck. Sadly, a lot of these guitars need neck resets because of all the tension of the 12 strings. SO check the action carefully....but these are GREAT 12 strings.....Good luck hunting!!![/quote'] Damn right Wily in all the talk we forgot Guild. Great 12 strings, I always wanted a 512 with the gold tuners etc ( <<<Bling) Thanks for the reminder But the truth is that, in this incarnation AJ's going to buy a Taylor LOL BR John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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