Silverbursted Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Last weekend, I found a very interesting and frankly beautiful 1977 Custom. The finish was kinda like an unfinished maple with a maple fretboard and really cool black binding and pickguard. I know this is right in the middle of the Norlin era, but I don't really know what gave these a bad name. I know that was a time when Gibson was doing unorthodox things to the LP line, like maple bodies and necks, and adding lots of unnecessary electronics. I have heard some of you guys say stay away, while others really love them. I'm not looking at buying it, I was just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I don''t hate Norlins in fact there was some very good guitars made in that period. That said there was also no consistency and quality control was all over the place so rather than dismiss a era I would just say be careful and make sure what your looking at is what you want because the next one out (Even if exact model) could be very different. There was a lot of really strange guitars made during that time with Gibson trying anything and everything since sales were hard and competition with foreign made guitars was really starting to be an issue. Kind of the same exact concern as Fender during the CBS years or Harley Davidson during the AMF ownership. No thats not true AMF Harley's all sucked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Norlin era Les Pauls leak oil. No, wait, that was AMF Harleys. AMF Alcort Sunfish leaked oil, too. If the guitar has the features you want and sounds and plays, of course when it speaks to you that's what's important. The cork sniffers will appraise them lower because of the collectors' perception that the quality was lower in that era. Simply sounds like an opportunity to me. Do your own QC - are the binding nibs clean? is the trussrod responsive? are there any signs of filler being used in the fretboard inlays or along the bindings? Are there any file marks or chatter marks on the fingerboard? orangepeel texture to the lacqer? stickiness of the neck lacquer when your hand heats it up? (that supposedly goes away, but still plagues modern production) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson CS Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 norlin lesters, some with boat paddel headstocks, some with 3 peiice necks, some with 5 peice bodies, truss rod sometimes is loose, and pots may be different values but mine is perfect =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I don''t hate Norlins in fact there was some very good guitars made in that period. That said there was also no consistency and quality control was all over the place so rather than dismiss a era I would just say be careful and make sure what your looking at is what you want because the next one out (Even if exact model) could be very different. There was a lot of really strange guitars made during that time with Gibson trying anything and everything since sales were hard and competition with foreign made guitars was really starting to be an issue. Kind of the same exact concern as Fender during the CBS years or Harley Davidson during the AMF ownership. No thats not true AMF Harley's all sucked... OK, I just made a fresh drink to respond to this post: CBS era Fender (guitars) - never owned one, I knew better, because I already had a 1960 Strat (still do). What else would you need. Although I did have a CBS/Fender Dual Showman amp that sucked. Traded the cab for a Dan Armstrong Plexi guitar and sold the head for whatever I could get for it. AMF era Harleys - Here's where I start to disagree. Just like Norlin era Gibson's you have to take them one by one. I agree the AMF was bad for HD as a whole, but there were some good bikes turned out. I had a 1980 1000 cc Sportster that kicked ***, I wish I had kept it. I traded it in on a '85 Softail which I still ride today. In fact, my wife and I just got off it from a day trip to one of the most famous caves in the midwest, Meramec Caverns. Spent the day crawling around in a cave and sitting in a river, life is good. AMF saved Harley - Davidson from oblivion, and facilitated the transition to what is is today. Just like Norlin did for Gibson. When Norlin bought Gibson they were being trounced by Fender, everybody wanted a Strat. Clapton was playing one, Hendrix played one, Trower, Beck, Rory Galagher, and others. You could buy a new Start for $250, it cost $500 to buy a Les Paul. Norlin came in with an agressasive marketing plan. They introduced, or reintroduced a lot of cheap models. Slab bodies, single coil pickup models, etc. Norlin came in and confronted Fender face to face. Just like HD, if it wasn't for Norlin there would be no Gibson today. I owned two Norlin era Gibsons. They were as fine a guitar as I've ever owned, both 1975 models, one was a ES-335, the other was an early reissue LP Standard. I also have 30's and 40's era Gibsons (I can't afford 50's era Gibsons) , and the Norlin era Gibsons still hold the test of time. Just like today, you have to evaluate each guitar on it's own merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I too, own two "Norlin Era" Gibsons. 1976 LP Deluxe (pancake body), and 1980 LP Custom! BOTH are excellent guitars. Tone, workmanship, playability. Having said that, I have seen (and played) some real DOGS, from that era. I hate (visually) the too wide headstocks, that so many of them seemed to have. Not the Custom LP's, but the Standards and Deluxes. My Deluxe has a smaller headstock, thankfully. Some were (indeed) "boat paddles!" And, some of the SG's of that era, are downright strange. On some versions, very little bevelling, plastic (multi-layered...as in pickguard material) mouting plates for the tone and volume controls, on the outside front of the guitar (UGLY), and even wider headstocks (seemingly) than the the LP's! So, it was an "experimental" time, for sure! LOL! But, at least Gibson survived, amazingly...and we now can get guitars that are as good, to better than the "golden years!" QC in any large manufactured product line will always have it's ups and downs, but overall, I think Gibson is doing and excellent job! Just wish they were a bit more "affordable!" ;>) CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I just saw a DVD that touched on that subject... Norlin was a big company that bought Gibson and as all big companies do they incorporated changes in the construction of the guitar to cut expenses and improve profit margin... Electronics, wood, hardware...etc Instead of making machine heads at Gibson the farmed the work out to cheap labor. As a result the quality of Gibson declined during the Norlin period. That is not to say that some good ones didn't come out then but the quality was not the same.... The DVD I saw is great you should check it out its called "SOLIDBODIES The 50 Year Guitar War" Explores the evolution of Fender and Gibson as rivals and competitors. All show how the guitarists that used the guitars influenced the sales and success of the companies... Very interesting. A must see!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I've said it so many times I should use it as my signature. I've owned at least a dozen LPs from an original 1955 gold top to a 1988 Standard with a good mix in the middle. The only LP I own is a 1971 sandwich body, voluted Deluxe gold top. I've owned it since 1997. All the other LPs were owned for less than a year. I have never played a Les Paul with so much.... oh, crap, I can't find the words. It just has a resonance and vibe going on that none of the others had. I know they're just slabs of wood but this one just begs to be played. I have been known to be a cork sniffer and I'm trying to get away from all that. Provenance and pedigree means Jack S___ if it doesn't make you want to play it. If a guitar sucks, it doesn't matter who or when made it; ditto for the other way around. We put way too much emphasis on what others think of us based on how many guitars we can line up in the living room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKlunchbox Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I had a 1980 1000 cc Sportster that kicked ***' date=' I wish I had kept it. I traded it in on a '85 Softail which I still ride today. In fact, my wife and I just got off it from a day trip to one of the most famous caves in the midwest, Meramec Caverns. Spent the day crawling around in a cave and sitting in a river, life is good.[/quote'] Right now I'm working on getting my Dad's old '79 Sportster down to KC to fix up. I've also been to Meramec 3 times now. Unfortunately on this last trip my buddy and I were a bit too intoxicated and ended up floating right on by the cave on the river. Fisher cave was awesome too. On topic...I happen to like (as do many others it appears) the Norlin era Gibson's. I too have heard the horrendous stories of terrible QC but on the flip side of that coin I've heard some pretty bad tales about guitars they're putting out now. As with any hand-made instrument (or anything else hand made in mass quantities) there will be winners and losers. I guess you could say that not all Gibson's are created equal, but in the end it still comes back to a simple fact for most of us..."Only a Gibson is good enough". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I've said it so many times I should use it as my signature. I've owned at least a dozen LPs from an original 1955 gold top to a 1988 Standard with a good mix in the middle. The only LP I own is a 1971 sandwich body' date=' voluted Deluxe gold top. I've owned it since 1997. All the other LPs were owned for less than a year. I have never played a Les Paul with so much.... oh, crap, I can't find the words. It just has a resonance and vibe going on that none of the others had. I know they're just slabs of wood but this one just begs to be played. I have been known to be a cork sniffer and I'm trying to get away from all that. Provenance and pedigree means Jack S___ if it doesn't make you want to play it. If a guitar sucks, it doesn't matter who or when made it; ditto for the other way around. We put way too much emphasis on what others think of us based on how many guitars we can line up in the living room. [/quote'] Hey KSDaddy, I was checking out your web site. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but just wanted to say I was very impressed with your story and your guitars. Especially that Gretch type hollow body that you built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Thanks much. I haven't been doing much on the bench lately and I'm okay with that. One of the luxuries of doing what I do is being able to walk away from the bench if I'm not in the mood. There's a head bangin' pointy headstocked Guild on the bench, been there a month. Just can't bring myself to restoring it yet. Maybe if they have a big hair marathon on VH1 I'll be stoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Don't disagree at all like in my original response some very good guitars came put of the Norlin years My first new electric was a 1977 L6-S tha I still own and always will it's a great guitar and Ive worn the frets off it twice and it still plays great. All that is a given but Gibson also turned out some real tone turds during those years and they earned a lot of the bad reputation that era has. i definately would not count out a Les paul just because it's a Norlin but I sure wouldn't buy one without playing it or hearing it either. And Harleys don't leak oil. they mark there own parking spaces. AMF Harleys were not all bad either the sportsters were actually pretty nice but not many riders rebuild AMF bikes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 What exactly is so bad about the Norlin era Les Paul? hmmm Nothing really - generally spoken. But some lacked decent build quality due to stressed production and cost saving arrangement - exactly like Gibson guitars today, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I've narrowly missed buying several over the years. The price was a bit high, but the real issue was condition. Being so disparaged kept values down, so people treated them like junk. Beat the hell out of them. In good condition, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I remember seeing them quite cheap back then though (used). I passed on one just like this for $200 in like 1980 or 81... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson CS Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 a mister paul smith saw that gutar, and was inspired to start his own guitar company maybe i see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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