tvguit Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 I was looking at some pictures of a '67 es-335 and noticed that the one I was looking at had a dark part on the heel of the neck. Here's a photo So I looked at a few others and the rest (that I looked at) didn't have the dark area on the heel. Can anyone explain this? The guitar is supposed to be original except the grovers and one tone knob. It isn't supposed to have had any major repairs (like a neck reset!). Maybe it is just the poor quality photo or the lighting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 I would say probably it's just the way the "open" end of the wood grain absorbed the stain, like the end of a plank of wood stains out a different color than the face of the board. The extra darkness distinctively starts at the joint between the maple back and the mahogany neck. If it were there to hide a neck reset or similar repair, I would think the darkened "hide" area would have extended across the neck/body joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 Thanks Larry, I think you are probably right. Have you seen this on any other 335's from this era? I can't find any. That makes sense though that they would need to hid the full area of the joint and not just the end of the neck. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Have you seen this on any other 335's from this era? I can't say I've gone around inspecting the finish anomalies on a bunch of 300's neck joints, but I can say that I have noticed very distinctive color differences at the neck joint of maple body/mahogany neck guitars due to the different properties of the different woods. How this changes as the neck heel transitions into the neck proper I have made no specific note of. On sunburst guitars the edge color (black, brown, red, etc) is usually feathered out into this exact area of the neck (as shown by the darkness in your photo) to "blend" the finish area of the neck joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 This looks pretty odd to me, although I haven't really "studied" this phenomenon either. I think it would look less odd if this was a sunburst guitar (rather than red), for the reason Larry described (blending the color into the neck area). I wonder if this neck was originally on a sunburst guitar (or if this body was refinished from sunburst to red). At any rate, if you're thinking about buying it, I would ask for more photos, and ask more questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 I was kind of thinking something like that may have happened. If the neck was refinished then wouldn't the dark part have been sanded off? Would it have left a "stain" behind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 I was kind of thinking something like that may have happened. If the neck was refinished then wouldn't the dark part have been sanded off? Would it have left a "stain" behind? I'm not talking about a refinished neck. I'm suggesting the possibility that a neck from a sunburst was attached to a red body, or, just the body was refinished (from sunburst to red). I'm not saying that's what's going on here, just throwing that out there as a possibility. The photo really isn't that good (or close up), so it's very hard to guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grog Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 My ES-335 happens to be a 1967 also. I dug it out & took a picture for comparison. It looks a bit dark also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 9, 2010 Author Share Posted October 9, 2010 Nice ES grog! Thanks for sharing it. Maybe it is just the end grain of the mahogany neck? I wonder if the top edge of the peg head looks dark as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Grog's looks normal to me. It is typical for the upper area around and including the heel to be slightly darker. But compare his photo to the image in the opening post. That guitar has a much darker heel area, and the whole neck has more of a brownish tinge. Grog's has a slightly red tinge all the way down the neck. I just looked at several '67 cherry red ES-335 photos online, and the necks all looked like Grog's. Earlier in the 60's, I think the cherry red thinlines had less of a red tinge added to the finish on the back of the neck, but all of the cherry '67's I'm seeing have the reddish tone like Grog's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 9, 2010 Author Share Posted October 9, 2010 That's interesting, i don't think i noticed it before but I guess it's possible that the '67 i posted could have just a regular mahogany neck that isn't stained (Which would definitely not be original). Jim, did the earlier ES's you are talking about still have the trapeze tail piece or were they stop tail? This one definitely has the trapeze and no extra holes left from a previous one so it at least has to be from after '65. I haven't gotten a serial number yet so I don't know for sure if it is a '67. I am going to look at it Sunday afternoon so I will be able to really look closely. Thanks for the help everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 I got the ES-335. Original neck, original finish and the dark fade at the heel is from the factory. The serial number on the sticker matches the number on the headstock so I am assuming that is pretty good proof? One thing I did notice is that the finish looks cracked at the joint of the neck. It doesn't look like the neck has been off and the joint isn't loose either. Is that typical of old 335s? Picked up the 335 and an old Guild F-30 natural for $2750. It was a good day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 One thing I did notice is that the finish looks cracked at the joint of the neck. Is that typical of old 335s? Yes, this is typical. It is simply caused by the expansion/contraction of the woods over time due to temperature and humidity changes. This is only a hairline separation of the clearcoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 O good, I was kind of worried it may be a sign of the neck being reset at some point. The original case on this one is shot though, it looks like the guy tried to repaint it! I don't know what he used but the original lifton is pretty much done. It is missing one tone knob as well, but i'll probably try to get that off of ebay unless any of you guys have any extras? I could pay $10 or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Which style/color knob are you needing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 I need one like this with no writing on the top. The other knobs have yellowed a little so I don't want to buy a new knob that would look out of place. Do you have one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 No, I don't have one like that. Other than an indefinite search of e-bay, your best bet would be just buy a set of new ones so they all match. http://www.allparts.com/Black-Tone-Reflector-Knobs-p/pk-0182-023.htm http://www.allparts.com/Black-Volume-Reflector-Knobs-p/pk-0184-023.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grog Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Are you sure it's a '67? Most 1967's have witch hat knobs. Maybe it's a '66. Gibson has been known to use different parts in transition years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 Are you sure it's a '67? Most 1967's have witch hat knobs. Maybe it's a '66. Gibson has been known to use different parts in transition years. The serial number is 875XXX which should be a '67 I think, but we are talking about Gibson so who knows! I am just glad the serial number on the neck matches the body. I think this neck was originally meant for a sunburst but got put on a cherry finished guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 Here is a pic of the neck joint. It doesn't look like the rest of the neck has the cherry finish. A Gibson anomaly I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Here is a pic of the neck joint. I'll admit I'm not an expert when it comes to identifying repairs and modifications, but it seems pretty obvious that something was done at the neck joint at some point in time. The way the dark finish extends slightly into the cutaway... that's not how it would have looked leaving the factory. It doesn't look like the rest of the neck has the cherry finish. ?... I thought we had already established that the rest of the neck has a brownish rather than red tinge to it. If you want to get the best possible feedback here, why not post a photo or two of the front of the guitar? By the way, I agree that those knobs look like they could be pre-1967. Not sure exactly when the "witch hat" type were introduced. At any rate, it sounds like you got a very good deal. How does it play/sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 Here is another side of the joint: What do you think of this side? It doesn't look like it has been worked on to me. Maybe you guys see something I don't? Here is a link to all the pictures: http://s1019.photobucket.com/albums/af320/jfshults/Gibson/1967%20ES-335/ What do you think about the bridge pickup? It doesn't have the patent sticker but it looks exactly like the other pu. Do you think it is original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 Another thing I noticed about this guitar today is that when I have the switch in the neck position it is loud and bluesy/jazzy. When I switch it to the middle, it is a little softer but still pretty deep. Also, when I turn the bridge pu's volume knob nothing changes, only the neck pu's volume will work. Then when I switch it to the bridge pu it sounds like it should but it is not as loud as the neck pu. The volume knob does work in this position. Disclaimer: I am very new to electric guitars. I am an acoustic player through and through so if any of the problems are obvious, let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 Just found an '67 es-335 with a non-cherry tinted neck. I guess that is fairly typical? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360303373797&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_17289wt_1135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grog Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Here is another side of the joint: What do you think of this side? It doesn't look like it has been worked on to me. Maybe you guys see something I don't? It does look kinda odd, the way the darker color from the neck heel is also sprayed about 1/4" or so on the body. But from an era when guitars were built completely by hand, anything is possible. I've read where people have tried to duplicate exactly, some of the guitars built from that era. It's hard to duplicate work done by women, gossiping about the goings on in Kalamazoo Michigan! Everyone is a bit different, unlike today with everthing made by CNC machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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