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Preludedude

Is this a real or fake Vintage Hollow Body?

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Spotted this at a Pawn Shop here locally...Sorry for the bad pictures..Ive never seen Gibson printed like that on the head..there was no serial on the back of the head...only a serial on the metal plate that said adjustable neck..That doesnt look right at all..

 

Only could snap a few quick pictures with my phone...

post-26226-080134300 1286848485_thumb.jpg

post-26226-025679800 1286848499_thumb.jpg

post-26226-025384300 1286848559_thumb.jpg

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So what is the guitar originally? And what makes it a flat out fake...

 

I have been proven wrong on Gibson history more than once in the past, but I will venture here to suggest that Gibson hollow body and/or semi-hollow body guitars have not had bolt-on necks as this guitar does (the metal plate with four screws and "Adjustable Neck" written on it is a dead giveaway for a bolt-on neck). Gibson guitars traditionally have glued-in set necks. Notice too that the headstock does not have the normal center "divot" or open book style along its top. Lastly, by the 1950s, when Gibson introduced the thinline semi-hollow and thinline hollow body guitars (which this appears to be), the Gibson logo on the headstock matched the modern Gibson logo (the letters are joined together is a style closer to script or cursive). The f-holes on this guitar are not the typical style used by Gibson either but are a bit wider and placed a bit differently.

 

My guess is that this MIGHT be an early Epiphone import with an altered headstock. It also could be any number of other early Japanese imports that were pale copies of the ES-335. In fact, now that I look at the pickup covers, I see that they clearly show by the width of the plastic that this guitar did NOT originally have humbuckers. The Epiphone EA-250 had a very similar design to this guitar: bolt-on neck, multiple binding around the body (but single binding on the headstock), and binding around the f-holes (which was not standard on the ES-330 or -335). The EA-250 also had odd pickups that were as wide as P-90s but were in fact weak humbuckers. I've seen several EA-250s that were retrofitted with standard humbuckers, and all of them need some sort of extra-wide binding ring to fill in the gap left by the old nonstandard pickups and the new standard replacements.

 

I'd wager this is an EA-250 from the early 1970s. If it has a very thin neck (both thin in terms of depth and a narrow freboard) and looks to be built from at least three pieces of wood (you can tell this from the center stripe of wood running the length of the back of the neck), then it's probably an EA-250. If so, the pickups are not original, the headstock has been altered, and the tailpiece also likely is not original. The guitar is probably worth less than $200--perhaps a LOT less. These can be fun guitars if you don't mind the very narrow fretboard, which quickly makes other guitars hard to play if you use it too often.

 

I'm sure experts in the forum can point out other problems with this example.

 

Ignatius

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Well said. Thanks so much

No problem.

 

Glad to be of service and also much appreciate the nod of thanks. Sometimes, I'm not even sure if the original poster even finds the answers offered because he or she never returns to a thread after asking a question.

 

Ignatius

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Well, I think I am going to go back and let the Pawn Shop know of their error...No one there really knows a ton about guitars, and I dont either...But they paid $250 for it, and have it priced $500, so looks like they are going to take a hit...Or either still try to pass it off as a real one

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I'd wager this is an EA-250 from the early 1970s. If it has a very thin neck (both thin in terms of depth and a narrow freboard) and looks to be built from at least three pieces of wood (you can tell this from the center stripe of wood running the length of the back of the neck), then it's probably an EA-250. If so, the pickups are not original, the headstock has been altered, and the tailpiece also likely is not original. The guitar is probably worth less than $200--perhaps a LOT less. These can be fun guitars if you don't mind the very narrow fretboard, which quickly makes other guitars hard to play if you use it too often.

 

I'm sure experts in the forum can point out other problems with this example.

 

Ignatius

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Epiphone-EA-250-w-Bigsby-Casino-Riviera-ES335-Guitar-/220680069808?pt=Guitar&hash=item33618ea2b0

 

Looks like you are right..Here is a EA250 on EBAY, and it has the same metal plate on back of body and serial location...

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it's a real made-in-USA Epiphone with a faked "Gibson" logo. nothing more, nothing less.

NOT made in USA. Let this thread die, please.

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The body is made by Matsumoku japan, and it was originaly an Epiphone (Matsumoku produced Epiphone guitars between 1970 and 1983), it had humbuckers alright, made by Maxon, and Maxon humbuckers are a bit larger then normal humbuckers.

 

Matsumoku always had the quote "Steel Adjustable neck" stamped in the neck plate.

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no really, how can you tell, a saw it on some online selling and it's cheap... but it's looking good so I was thinking maybe the guy is idiot...

 

gandhi,

 

it doesn't matter if it's not an "original" Gibson or Epiphone. The Seller is not neccesarily an idiot, he may be smart. The bottom line is: does it play and sound good? The line between "originals" and "fakes" was crossed years ago.

 

 

I have three 1967 and 1968 Kent 820 guitars (made in Japan) that play excellent and they stay in tune better than my really-really-original Gibson, specifically in the upper registers where all guitars usually play out of tune.

 

Also understand that Gibson and Fender and Gretsch and most every other United States' and European (Hofner) guitar and amplifier companies are now-a-days subcontracting the manufacturing of their guitars and amps to Chinese, Korean, and Japanese factories, so it really DOES NOT MATTER anymore. EVERYTHING is being made in Asia. When you buy a General Motors or Ford car, the parts say "made in China".

 

My complaint now-a-days is that Gibson has cheapened its guitars to a point where the only consideration is "buiding to a price", not "building to a Standard".

 

take for example the "Gibson" headstock Logo: it is now some kind of silk-screened Decal instead of mother-of-pearl, is that cheap or what?

 

What is happening is that those who know, are NOT buying NEW guitars just because of little details like THAT. So in essence Gibson is shooting themselves in the foot by trying to sell cheap cheep guitars. Competition is fierce.

 

Only one guitar company has remained purely North American, refusing to make them in Asia, that company is Rickenbacker.

 

 

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gandhi,

 

it doesn't matter if it's not an "original" Gibson or Epiphone. The Seller is not neccesarily an idiot, he may be smart. The bottom line is: does it play and sound good? The line between "originals" and "fakes" was crossed years ago.

 

 

I have three 1967 and 1968 Kent 820 guitars (made in Japan) that play excellent and they stay in tune better than my really-really-original Gibson, specifically in the upper registers where all guitars usually play out of tune.

 

Also understand that Gibson and Fender and Gretsch and most every other United States' and European (Hofner) guitar and amplifier companies are now-a-days subcontracting the manufacturing of their guitars and amps to Chinese, Korean, and Japanese factories, so it really DOES NOT MATTER anymore. EVERYTHING is being made in Asia. When you buy a General Motors or Ford car, the parts say "made in China".

 

My complaint now-a-days is that Gibson has cheapened its guitars to a point where the only consideration is "buiding to a price", not "building to a Standard".

 

take for example the "Gibson" headstock Logo: it is now some kind of silk-screened Decal instead of mother-of-pearl, is that cheap or what?

 

What is happening is that those who know, are NOT buying NEW guitars just because of little details like THAT. So in essence Gibson is shooting themselves in the foot by trying to sell cheap cheep guitars. Competition is fierce.

 

Only one guitar company has remained purely North American, refusing to make them in Asia, that company is Rickenbacker.

whoa dude. I don't disagree with EVERYTHING here, but we have a few "typos" here that might lead to some misinformation.

 

GIBSON on the headstock means "made in USA" period. That has never changed. They may make cheaper guitars overseas, but they don't say GIBSON on them unless they are made here.

 

GIBSON has NEVER stopped using the silk screened logo. It depends on which model you buy. Gibson still uses both, some of it on models made to be affordable, and sometimes on historic/reissue models to keep it "authentic".

 

This may seem opinion, but the only line crossed by that particular 335 copy is the ethical line. There are some Chinese copies coming over that are made to fool people, and in particular some of these that have some pretty convincing details like the "made in USA" on the back. But these particular guitars are a LOT cheaper than they seem (I have played one) and are not close at all in quality.

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QUOTE: GIBSON has NEVER stopped using the silk screened logo. It depends on which model you buy. Gibson still uses both, some of it on models made to be affordable, and sometimes on historic/reissue models to keep it "authentic".

 

I don't really understand what you mean, mother-of-pearl was ALWAYS the Standard, not silk-screened decals. Take the modern and expensive Limited Edition "Diablo" SG; a fine instrument by any definition but it comes with a silk-screened DECAL LOGO. Cheep cheep. And yet, a Chinese or Korean COPY has mother-of-pearl logos. How interesting.

 

Fender Guitars ALWAYS used decals in their Headstocks, but not Gibson.

 

Epiphones are made in China, are they not? Fenders too. PRS, Ampeg, Vox, you name it, Made-in-China.

 

even Spanish Classical nylon-string guitars are now-a-days Made-in-China. You can't really get a Made-in-Spain classical guitar unless you order a custom-made Ramirez or similar at impossible prices.

 

my point is: the line between cheap and cheep was crossed decades ago. It really doesn't matter anymore. You want REAL HERITAGE? then buy a 1960's Gibson.

 

 

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A '60's Gibson is not something I can argue against, but wow... lots of hyperbole and misinformation being spewed around here. Don't believe everything you read around here, folks...

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A '60's Gibson is not something I can argue against, but wow... lots of hyperbole and misinformation being spewed around here. Don't believe everything you read around here, folks...

 

instead of admonishing other member's posts without laying facts on the table, why don't you specify exactly what "hyperbole and misinformation being spewed around here" you are referring to ?

 

If you know so much that the rest of us don't, why not teach all of us The Truth According to ? [flapper]

 

 

 

 

 

 

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