NOW, what do I do with this fake I just bought?

[NeoConMan]

Okay, I didn't buy it.

But every week a new member joins the forum with the same question.

"What do you guys think...." or "Does this look like...." or "How can I tell...." and too often it turns out bad.

 

I've had a couple phone conversations with people at Gibson about this, of course they don't disclose much.

Rest assured their legal department is after this, but what do they really do?

The guitars are mostly made overseas, outside the jurisdiction of US courts, so legal action is tough.

If they can't touch the fake bakers, then who do they go after?

 

I asked them today if they are interested in seeing the guitars, and the answer is yes.

They would like to get detailed pics of every fake they can, but people aren't helping them out much.

I think the guilt of getting fxcked compounded by the shame of admitting it is more than most people can bear.

Gibson needs all of us to help them, get all the info we can to them to aid their efforts.

 

Here's something that may help with the shame - legal trouble.

Say you can't get your money back, and you're stuck with the guitar. It's a fake, and a piece of sh!t, so now what?

Are you gonna keep it?

No.

You're gonna sell it to somebody else.

Even if you disclose that it's a fake, and sell it at a huge loss, you're STILL part of the problem.

Hate to think Gibson would have the cops knocking on YOUR door....

 

It's hard for me to draw a line that puts the good guys on one side and the bad guys on the other.

There are people buying them, and having them shipped to the US with the full knowledge they are fake, and doing everything they can to pass them off as legit here. These guys are criminals, in addition to being sh!t heads.

I hope Gibson gets to them before somebody like me. My wife says I have an Old Testament way of thinking...

 

Further down the food chain, we have people buying fakes for themselves and we can assume they simply want to get a cheap copy. They have no malice aforethought, and are not out to resell the guitar.

What would be the right thing for Gibson to do there?

It's a private party owning it, but sooner or later it will get sold to somebody else. Think they will disclose its pedigree?

I'm sorry, but that private owner is just as dirty in my book.

 

If my 19 year old son traded his dirtbike for a Les Paul with a perceived value somewhere around $4000, and brought home what our friend Goped got - let's just say justice would be served by me personally.

The guy wouldn't WANT the cops at his house since he's a crook, but he'd be calling them when I was done with him.

 

Every Gibson owner is a part of a community.

(Guitar owners with different brands are in the suburbs wishing they could afford our real estate!)

It's up to all of us to help where we can with this.

 

Can I get a "Hell yeah!!!" from the forum?

 

:-)

[ckledzepplin]

hell yeah!

[cudamax2343]

Sorry man I'm not with ya on this one. Because of gibson's quality inconsistencies from one guitar to the next, poor finishes, bad set-ups with mostly plastic nuts and a host of other problems, (1 out of every 25 are good). With Gibson's epiphone line moved to china to mass produce cheep guitars for the usa market at a huge profit and most of the Gibson forgeries coming out of the same epiphone plant at a price that most can overlook alot of production quality mishaps and installation of sub-standard components,(I hear the price shipped to the usa is at about 350.00). They did this to themself's and I dont think they are willing to even do anything about the gibson forgeries at the level need, they need to do something to their employed plants in china, that they created. Not try and just put on a show and nail a few in the us only to make themself's look good.

 

It's like this man, you go to chicago and supply a street gang with tons of coke, cheep and have them make you 75% profit on the street moving the ****, they turn into real good earners so you leave them alone. They get greedy and start stepping on it too much and start moving in into an others territory and your supplying them too, what the hell do you do, nothing, just like gibson. Oh they might want you to think they are doing something, because your the ones paying their real high prices, but they are not doing ****.

The only thing Gibson will continue to do is withhold usa electronics from their plant's in china, because if they installed gibson USA electronics in those made in china models, what the hell would the justification of these high prices we pay really be.

[RichCI]

Here's my opinion...

 

If someone is looking to buy a Gibson, they *should* have done some research to know that they're expensive guitars. If they haven't figured that part out, they really have no business buying such a fine instrument.

 

If money isn't an issue and they're willing to buy the first thing that says "Gibson" on it just because it looks like a deal, then maybe money really is an issue and they should be looking at another brand. Otherwise, they should be shopping with a reputable dealer rather than looking for a bargain.

 

Regardless of the person's budget - and maybe this is just me because I research the hell out of everything before I buy - it's buyer beware. If it seems too good to be true, it probably isn't true. Let Darwin sort them out.

 

I know I sound callous but since I post here and at a couple of other guitar related boards and newsgroups, I see this counterfeit crap come up all the time - somebody is ALWAYS asking "Is this real?" or saying "Check out this fake!" Personally, I don't have or care to take the time to send info on every fake that I see; Gibson is the patent or copyright holder or whatever so let them find it, figure it out and deal with it. I'm just a guitar player and consumer.

[Thundergod]

You know what I find most stupid and frustrating? How this guys supposedly trade their goods or money for a guitar they dont know is real... and to a person they dont even have a confirmed phone number or adress of.

 

What are they? Morrons?

[Thundergod]

Oh and dont get me started about those a-holes that buy those chinese $300 gibsons and think they are cool and inteligent and we are stupid asses for paying so much for "the same guitar"... one of those told me some 2 weeks ago that he got his gibson for less than a 5th part of what mine cost, I told him his was a china cheapo and he said "what are you talking about? they are made in the same factory in china that makes gibsons for gibson"

 

Why do I have to share my world with such ignorant mediocre people? One thing is to be ignorant about something and be eager to learn and thank whoever takes you out of your ignorance... but to act like you know more and actually believe you are right about something you know sh¡t about... makes me want to cut his damn fingers off and stick them in his mouth and anus.

[retrosurfer1959]

I usually stay out of these posts but i'm in a wierd mood so here goes.

 

I don' really feel sorry for most people that do this, first they don't have a clue and then they think they got the greatest deal in the world and then they freaking argue about it how many times have we seen it right on this forum

 

First Post is usually "is this real" we answer and then they argue I think it's real because it says Gibson on it or came with a Gibson case or look it had a gibson pick with it or but the seller said it was real and I got this deal because ...

 

Bottom line -

 

It's not just guitars it's everywhere and has been going on forever. To me it's no different than fake Rolex watches or fake designer purses or (Just fill in the blank) I was in Venice Italy a few months back watching people buy fake everything then walking around saying do yo think this is real, were in Italy so the gypsie pick pockets and homeless people would natutally sell real Gucci stuff right? yeah right these are the same geniuses twenty minutes before someone else steals all their money and passport (come on people) then they say the lamest cop out statement ever. The first excuse or statement isn't Sh--T Im an idiot and I just had a prison date without the soap bar like it should be - no its

 

- Well it's just as good as the real ones nobody will know. Yeah right but the sad part is only a few people care I can tell a fake Gibson in seconds now a fake leather purse Nope, but then my wife the professional shopper can tell a fake Dooney or other designer purse or shoe brands from a mile she'll glance at it and smile and say that model from 2005 never had that buckle stiching or that heel never came on that shoe in black and I just smile and think yep that's life and Forest Gump summed it up best

 

Stupid is as Stupid does. so Buyer beware, Wanna Buy a watch real cheap?

[surfpup]

Why do I have to share my world with such ignorant mediocre people?

 

Because we have eliminated natural selection! Not only do stupid people stay alive' date=' many of them seem to be successful and prosperous. There are so few consequences for stupidity now. (Feeling philosophical this morning I guess). [b']Les Pauls Rule! [/b] (real ones anyway).

[NeoConMan]

I'll follow on here.

The stupid people become prey for the smart and devious people.

 

We don't really see the darkest of human nature, the predatory types, if we're too much trouble for them.

Kinda like an elephant who doesn't care there are lions walking amongst his family - no big deal.

 

Everything is cool, the world's a happy place, eh?

 

When the dumb, weak, slow ones (say, a beautiful young gazelle) is unwary and isn't properly taught - it gets ugly.

 

I'll be the first to tell you, Darwin is a mother-fxcker!

Add a little bad luck to the mix, and the carnage begins.

 

The ***-holes and sh!t-heads see their strategy is working, so they get more brazen.

Sooner or later, they decide they might be able to take an elephant.

We are ALL potential victims, so pay attention!

 

How's that for blue collar philosophy?

 

Maybe I could do the "Darwin - beer makes you smarter" bit...

[Tim Plains]

I DO feel bad for people that have been ripped off like this. I've never ripped anybody off. I'm the guy that tells the cashier if he/she's given me too much change. Money does not buy me happiness.

 

...but on the flip side, I do agree that it is your responsibility to do your homework and know what you are buying.

[NeoConMan]

Caveat Emptor!

Yeah, it's one thing to get robbed of your lunch money on the playground - but THAT never happens anymore.

These kids are adults before they realize just how bad they can get f-ed.

[Thundergod]

 

Because we have eliminated natural selection! Not only do stupid people stay alive' date=' many of them seem to be successful and prosperous. There are so few consequences for stupidity now. (Feeling philosophical this morning I guess). [b']Les Pauls Rule! [/b] (real ones anyway).

 

 

Did you watch "Idiocracy"? prety lame movie BUT, the explanation of how stupid people end ruling the world is very very good.

[Thermionik]

Take off all the safety labels, and all the hazard warnings.

Natural selection and stupidity will do the rest.

The dumb schmucks will die out.

Guns don't kill, people do.

[guitar_randy]

Ohh RAA

[guitar_randy]

Ooh RAA

[Thermionik]

What is that.....

Royal Artillery Association

Royal Academy of Arts

Retail Automotive Alliance

Regional Airline Association

.....uh, no, it's guitar_randy and his vengeance of the lord come to strike us down.

[retrosurfer1959]

I'm the guy that tells the cashier if he/she's given me too much change.

 

Sadly me too and it's getting harder and harder, the wife and I were in a Dairy Queen a few weeks back and we got 27 dollars in change from a 10 dollar bill plus the ice cream. I chuckled and told the young genius behind the register and got the blankest stare and then the kid said no I think thats right it tells us how much change to give so this is right. I again said sorry but something isn't right if I get my goods and almost a 300% increase in money back.

 

Again the kid shook hier head blankly and said no it says right here see pointing at the computerized register. I again said sure but if you enter the amount of cash wrong the change is wrong right?

 

Let me get the manager another so another kid walks up and says I'm the counter Manager is there a problem sir, and so I go through the whole story again. The same blank stare and you guessed it the change should be right the screen tells us the change amount. By then I'm kinda getting frustrated so I say well if that's correct than I'll take 10 thousand dollars worth of food you give me the 27 thousand I'll go buy a new car and you just hand the food out for free to all the customers until the 10k is gone and I'll come back and we can do it again every day, people will love you and I'll be rich.

 

The kids look at each other and decide since the owner is in the back office maybe they should ask him. and so one of the kids disappears and three people are in line behind me laughing there butts off and telling me I shoulda just kept the change.

 

The owner walks out from the back shakes his head takes the change and gives me my 10 back saying thanks your ice creams on the house for your honesty. I chuckle and tell him he doesn't need to do that and honestly he should probably keep the money for the ice cream since he's really likely to need it. He just chuckled and said you'll never know how true that is and that it's pretty common but no one usually says anything. I thank him and leave and walk over to my wife at the table she had sat at, and ate my ice cream. When we left 15 minutes later the owner was still trying to explain the problem to the two kids.

 

The two kids were both girls in this case so I hope they grow up beautiful or life is gonna be very long for those two.

 

That's why I don't complain to often about Quality control on Gibson guitars in the world we live in right now its pretty amazing they even have necks on them when they ship.

[haniblectre]

Just to give you an idea of where I'm coming from, I am a 23 year old male. I am a college senior with a major in computer science and a minor in mathematics and I am expecting to graduate in December.

 

These large corporations have changed their business model drastically over the last 30 years. In the dairy queen example above, look at it this way: company wide let's say they have 5000 people who work at the cash registers. They could hire 5000 relatively smart people who know basic mathematics and aren't simply robots and pay them $15+ an hour (you'd have to pay at least that much to keep a smart person around, especially if they have a family to support).. or they can hire 20 software developers like myself to write a computer program to do all of the math for the transactions automatically and then hire a bunch of kids to run the registers for $6 an hour that don't know their *** from a hole in the ground.

 

Bottom line, even though in the second scenario screw-ups happen like you getting $27 in change when you gave them a $10 bill, they still make more profit company wide in the long run because all of the cash register labor is so cheap. It's the same way with best buy, guitar center, etc. Why employ thousands of smart knowledgeable people for $15+ an hour when you can write a computer program to do all of the "complicated" stuff and hire a bunch of retards to do the grunt work. This is the business model of virtually all large corporations in this country now, including Gibson. They took this approach when they moved their Epiphone factories to China and now they are having problems with chinese fake Gibsons. That's the price of maximizing profit margins (see: greed).

[FennRx]

i still dont understand why any of you guys care? i dont care if someone traded their dirtbike, or their Mickey Mantle rookie, or whatever for a fake gibson. it doesnt affect me, so whatever. is china making these fakes? yep. so what? china has been making fake everything for a long time. why waste your time worrying about it?

 

am i cynical? yes. so be it. but whatever happened to personal responsibility? and people wonder why our country is declining. we're a country of fat, stupid and lazy morons with an over-inflated sense of entitlement.

 

to the kid who traded his dirtbike, that's too bad. consider this lesson learned. people will screw you the first chance they get. salesmen, coworkers, friends and lovers. always be vigilant. and as someone already said: if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

[NeoConMan]

Wow Fenn,

I thought I was a hardass. Compared to you I'm PollyAnna....

 

:-)

[FennRx]

Wow Fenn' date='

I thought I was a hardass. Compared to you I'm PollyAnna....

 

:-)[/quote']

 

haha

 

im 26 going on 80

 

i work for a major chain pharmacy in an "economically depressed" area. i would say >80% of my patients are Medicaid and low income Medicare Part D members. Nothing will embitter someone quicker than dealing with worthless welfare losers and their illegimate children (do you know who my daddy is?) all day long. now throw in the INSANE amount of narcotics these people get prescribed (amazing how people who dont work need so much xanax for their nerves and vicodin for their "pain"- sorry learn to cope, its called life!) and you have a recipe for success!

 

i know i sometimes seem cold and heartless. i sympathize with few, because few tell me the truth. my customers are the result of a lack of personal responsibility. and it pisses me off! :-({|=/

[NeoConMan]

We are much more alike than you know.

I'm 42 and it warms my heart to see you young guys with a brain and an education who DON'T buy the feel-good sh!t.

Did you see my website per chance? You might like it.

Just open a new web browser window, add dot com to my user name, click enter, and enjoy!

[Thundergod]

Neo I havent had the time to read your whole site yet... but I gotta tell you man, as far as I can tell from the little I have read, you are one of the few SOBs in the world that think like me and actually say it out loud.

 

One thing tho... I hoped to see a little gibson porn there...

[NeoConMan]

Thanks TG,

Yeah, check out the Rattlesnake Roadhouse site in my signature. I just got it going, not much there yet.

It has links to some cool sites, and a link to a few pics of my personal collection of guitars.

 

Guns I'm much more discreet about, that's a whole other website thing altogether....

[retrosurfer1959]

Just to give you an idea of where I'm coming from' date=' I am a 23 year old male. I am a college senior with a major in computer science and a minor in mathematics and I am expecting to graduate in December.

 

These large corporations have changed their business model drastically over the last 30 years. In the dairy queen example above, look at it this way: company wide let's say they have 5000 people who work at the cash registers. They could hire 5000 relatively smart people who know basic mathematics and aren't simply robots and pay them $15+ an hour (you'd have to pay at least that much to keep a smart person around, especially if they have a family to support).. or they can hire 20 software developers like myself to write a computer program to do all of the math for the transactions automatically and then hire a bunch of kids to run the registers for $6 an hour that don't know their *** from a hole in the ground.

 

Bottom line, even though in the second scenario screw-ups happen like you getting $27 in change when you gave them a $10 bill, they still make more profit company wide in the long run because all of the cash register labor is so cheap. It's the same way with best buy, guitar center, etc. Why employ thousands of smart knowledgeable people for $15+ an hour when you can write a computer program to do all of the "complicated" stuff and hire a bunch of retards to do the grunt work. This is the business model of virtually all large corporations in this country now, including Gibson. They took this approach when they moved their Epiphone factories to China and now they are having problems with chinese fake Gibsons. That's the price of maximizing profit margins (see: greed). [/quote']

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you said here but still a few points don't add up, But first

 

Congrats on getting so close to graduating and it's a good combination Computer science and mathematics. My first BS was in Mathematics and followed it with MSIS and a second MBA in Technology and system engineering. I completely understand the mathematics of lowest cost for largest ROI even if you need to design in the errors and lost revenue and still staying in the black. But what tilted this one out of the acceptable norm for me was the amount was the system was programmed to take in a monetary count and subtract the goods cost and establish a change amount without input or human calculation.

 

what through this od is the american monetary system I handed the girl a single bill she entered it in as a bill then put the value i got thee change back from a thirty dollar bill. A ten change of have been correct a twenty i would have received the correct change and a ten dollar bill beyond that they would have just returned one of my original bills and then made change, no for this to take place they accepted payment from me as a thirty dollar bill. and in America most people (including me) have never accepted a thirty dollars bill since these Kids are old enough to drive they have some consumer skills at least enough to not accept tender as if it came from a thirty dollar bill