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Silenced Fred

Gibson's Revolution

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Are you serious?

Yes, I am. It was bolt-on neck, but an SG nonetheless [scared] I'll post the pic later, if I can find it.

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So...essentially you're all pissed because you all bought into the hype and were severely disappointed?

 

Did y'all really have expectations that were that high? I mean, really? I'm sorry, but I've hype-averse, hype-resistant, etc. I had no expectations that their announcement would be legitimately "revolutionary" in any way.

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So...essentially you're all pissed because you all bought into the hype and were severely disappointed?

 

Did y'all really have expectations that were that high? I mean, really? I'm sorry, but I've hype-averse, hype-resistant, etc. I had no expectations that their announcement would be legitimately "revolutionary" in any way.

 

You've mistaken me for someone who gives a ****, except that I like to make the occasional comment about the BS.

 

And it was BS.

 

I'm not "pissed" about anything. You made that up.

 

Now that I've explained where I"m coming from, why don't you tell us why you care so much?

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You've mistaken me for someone who gives a ****, except that I like to make the occasional comment about the BS.

 

And it was BS.

 

I'm not "pissed" about anything. You made that up.

 

Now that I've explained where I"m coming from, why don't you tell us why you care so much?

 

I wasn't referring to you at all. I haven't seen complaints from you.

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The "Luddite" reference and smashing the SG was corny and a bit cruel IMHO.

 

In fact, the whole over-hyped presentation was ill-advised.

 

On the other hand, we must remember that Lester himself was probably the king of innovators, and he too went underappreciated for years by his contemporaries. Time will tell, I guess.

 

I personally don't care for the Firebird X, but I never liked the original ones either nor the Flying V. And I remember when they came out and saw them at music stores. The new Firebird X headstock is kinda sexy though. [rolleyes]

 

And the thing weighs just a hair over two pounds, < half the weight of even an SG...hell my Nikon camera weighs more than that! [confused]

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Bad idea, and Im reserving my deeper feelings about Firebird X because Im disappointed to say the least. As I was always told, if youve got nothing nice to say, dont say anything, and, well, you know... [thumbdn]

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This whole Firebird X promotion is just a bad thing all around. It's not just the guitar itself and it's overload of features, it's how it was over-hyped, promoted, and how the poor-taste presentation went down. Someone is clearly out of touch with what people want, even after a new "connect with Henry" messageboard was created for the sole purpose of finding out what guitarists want. I really don't get it. No one is really sure who this guitar is supposed to be marketed towards, especially when you see the price. I can find the absolute worst looking, beat to hell Les Paul on e-bay and it will look better than that thing. Sound is of upmost importance, but so is simplicity and looks.

 

This guitar reminds me of the Les Paul Recording model used by Pete Townshend. The Recording model had unique features for it's time, like the Firebird X. How many people bought the LP Recording model? Very few. But then again, the Recording model wasn't marketed to everyone in the world, like the Firebird X seems to be. If the Firebird X was to be specifially marketed to a certain group of people, then the presentation itself should have been FAR more low-key and maybe without all the built-up hype, the name calling, and the guitar smashing. A guitar is not a smash 'em up toy. It is a beautiful piece of furniture that you can create wonderful music with.

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You know we all missed one important fact; I think Les just turned over in his grave because of this epic fail........

 

This, folks, is very true.

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This whole Firebird X promotion is just a bad thing all around. It's not just the guitar itself and it's overload of features, it's how it was over-hyped, promoted, and how the poor-taste presentation went down. Someone is clearly out of touch with what people want, even after a new "connect with Henry" messageboard was created for the sole purpose of finding out what guitarists want. I really don't get it. No one is really sure who this guitar is supposed to be marketed towards, especially when you see the price. I can find the absolute worst looking, beat to hell Les Paul on e-bay and it will look better than that thing. Sound is of upmost importance, but so is simplicity and looks.

 

This guitar reminds me of the Les Paul Recording model used by Pete Townshend. The Recording model had unique features for it's time, like the Firebird X. How many people bought the LP Recording model? Very few. But then again, the Recording model wasn't marketed to everyone in the world, like the Firebird X seems to be. If the Firebird X was to be specifially marketed to a certain group of people, then the presentation itself should have been FAR more low-key and maybe without all the built-up hype, the name calling, and the guitar smashing. A guitar is not a smash 'em up toy. It is a beautiful piece of furniture that you can create wonderful music with.

A 'friggin men! I really get the sense that Gibson corp. has crawled waaayyyy up their own a-s-s with

this one.

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Well...I probably shouldn't get involved, but I am very much into both standard guitars and high-tech guitars. (I draw the line at MIDI guitars, though, because they don't give me the expressiveness that makes me love guitar - besides, I can play keyboards.)

 

The analogy I would use here is the difference between piano and synthesizer. They both have keyboards, but they're very different instruments.

 

I got into the original Digital Guitar and Dark Fire because they could do things no other instrument could do, specifically, the high-quality hex outputs, and Dark Fire's alternate tunings and "Chameleon" tone technology. But most importantly, they felt and played like real guitars (see my comments on MIDI guitars above). I've gotten a lot of mileage out them both, even going so far as to basing a band with Brian Hardgroove of Public Enemy around the digital guitar. Yes, just the two of us, but with the individual outs I was able to generate bass, lead, and rhythm all at the same time, from one guitar (I play with my fingers, so I can articulate multiple lines).

 

So now there's Firebird X. Let me say that I am in no way a spokesperson for Gibson, but it seems pretty obvious to me that the company is following two parallel tracks. One is producing standard guitars, the other is the ventures into high-tech. I don't see why a company can't do both. And also, as an observer of technology in general, the pattern is very familiar by now: Yamaha's DX1 FM synth that cost $20K (IIRC) paved the way for the $2K DX7 a few years later, which was a massive success. I have a Panasonic DA7 digital mixer that cost me about $3K, but is derived from their huge and very expensive theater mixing console. I simply can't imagine from a practical standpoint that Gibson would spend the kind of money on R&D needed to produce something like the Firebird X and then just walk away from the technology.

 

Now about Firebird X itself. The most impressive use of it I've seen was when I saw a producer in New York play a prototype. He strapped it on and within minutes, was creating amazing sonic textures by using the onboard sliders and effects. It was like this 20-minute mini-concert and frankly, I had not seen anything like it before. It's understandable to dismiss the effects as "built-in effects," but there's more to the story than that. The biggest deal are what Gibson calls "togpots." These look like pickup selectors, but the lever rotates. On the Dark Fire and Dusk Tiger, this lets you bring in the piezo pickup sound. But with the Firebird X, they also provide wet/dry controls for the effects. There's one looping preset where you can create an ambient wash, then turn up the reverb togpot and add a reverbed line, then turn up the distortion togpot and play leads over the bed you've created...you can do this with outboard pedals, but having the controls within reach so that you can morph between sounds and play them, rather than just switch between them, is what the producer exploited to create his mini-concert.

 

There are several other things that are interesting about having effects that are part of the guitar rather than just built-in. First, levels can be optimized specifically for the pickups so you can get seriously good headroom, which cuts way down on hiss...it's a very quiet guitar, even with high distortion settings and compression. Second, with outboard effects chains you can't, for example, "pick off" the guitar signal and route it to control another effect without getting out a soldering iron. With the Firebird X, a gate that comes early in the chain controls gating and ducking effects later in the chain. This is important, because the gate can read the full string dynamics, giving a wider range of control.

 

Third - and this is a biggie for me - I'm used to amp sims and plug-ins, which are cool, but which also invariably add latency. This is something I've always put up with because I just figured that's part of the price for going high-tech. But with the Firebird X, you get those same kinds of sounds in the guitar, so there's no latency when recording...when you hit a string, you hear that string immediately. That may not seem like a big deal, but it is if you've had to compromise by hearing everything come back at you 10-20 milliseconds after you play it.

 

Yes, Firebird X is expensive. But I don't know how a company could otherwise amortize their R&D investment. If you think about it, the price isn't that different from the Dark Fire and Dusk Tiger, but there's a lot more technology in the Firebird X. I assume this is because we're seeing price reductions in technology used from earlier guitars, but of course, now there's new stuff that creates another technology cycle.

 

Clearly, this guitar is not for everyone; the price alone guarantees that. Nor is it something that every guitarist would necessarily want - a Les Paul or Strat through a tube amp makes a righteous sound without any further help. But, a piano can't sound like a synthesizer, and a regular guitar can't do what the Firebird X does. Seeing pictures of it is a very different experience compared to playing it. I guess the simplest way to sum it up is that the Firebird X is not an electric guitar, but an electronic one. If you're looking for an electric guitar, this is not the droid you're looking for. If you're into electronic guitar, though, it's way ahead of anything that's come before.

 

My two cents...or 400,000 cents, give or take a few, in this case...Dark Fire didn't make me throw out my other guitars, but it let me create sounds on guitar I couldn't create otherwise. Firebird X takes that concept further. I'm way into this stuff, and designing presets for it - Firebird X provides quite a sandbox to play in. Having so many sounds at your fingertips, and being able to move so fluidly among them, is something I personally find inspirational.

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So...essentially you're all pissed because you all bought into the hype and were severely disappointed?

 

Did y'all really have expectations that were that high? I mean, really? I'm sorry, but I've hype-averse, hype-resistant, etc. I had no expectations that their announcement would be legitimately "revolutionary" in any way.

 

LOL, I'm not "pissed off" at all, and I certainly didn't buy "into the hype". I don't think anyone expected anything more than a miserable attempt to save the failing image of the Gibson Corporation after all of the latest PR nightmares.

 

If Gibson wants to treat its customers like fools, that's fine by me, but most people who can afford to spend 3 or 4 grand on a guitar aren't stupid.

 

[biggrin]

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I'm sorry this is not a revolution and its been done before in the the 70's and it failed then like it will again.

 

OMG at least they could have had a original idea.

 

 

Mind if I qoute you?

 

Same thing I've been saying in here and other forums. Built in FX? WTF? Is that what THEY call a revolution? I would say it's a joke but I ain't laughin' so it must be for real. Hopefully they'll discontinue it soon (and I don't mean the "guitar" I mean gibson's design team, their board and marketing team too).

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Why it is painted with the color, that looks like 1st run Robot? [confused]

 

"The Robot Guitar's Blue Silverburst nitrocellulose lacquer finish is a Gibson first, and will not be offered as a finish on any other guitar."

 

Source: http://www.gibson.com/RobotGuitar/guitar.html

 

 

That's what I've been scratching my head over for the last half hour. WTF? [cursing]

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I'm speechless. [thumbdn]

 

 

Wow! That's a first. Does it mean Gibson really changed the world today? [flapper]

 

(the guitar sucks... but you know what? just for humour we could get one of AXE's pictures and photoshop that hideous thing instead of his beloved firebird [woot] )

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At times like this, I'm glad I only play bass. [rolleyes]

 

 

Worry not... you'll get yours in time, I heard they are preparing to unveil the bluetooth SG bass that also works as wii control and lets you surf the web while you're onstage [flapper]

 

 

 

I hope when they steal the above mentioned idea they give me a nice check for it and forget to mention me in the credits.

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This is new. This is different. This is revolution,” he declared before unveiling the axe. “Nobody looks and spends the time to reinvent the guitar. This is a new guitar.

 

What an interesting choice of words. Should have said "nobody looks and wastes the time" instead of "nobody looks and spends the time"

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I just...I mean, come on, you don't have to buy it, don't have to like it, but I am so confused as to why exactly this translates to killing the Gibson brand, so on and so forth. I mean, it's not like they have ceased to produce their regular models--new technology and tried-and-true construction are not mutually exclusive. It's not like they can only do one type of instrument. It's also not like the Firebird X is any less of a guitar because of its onboard effects and tech gimmicks.

 

Sometimes I feel like the whole lot of ya b*tch and moan about things just for the sake of the b*tching and moaning. "Oh no, a new model. Oh, whatever shall we do?" Consider yourselves fortunate that Gibson hasn't moved all production to China (like one of our members so thoughtfully predicted would happen,) or that they haven't merged with Fender. It's a new model, you like it or you don't, but in the end it only affects you if you plan on buying one. Get real here.

 

 

It's not about any of the things you mentioned dude, IT'S ABOUT THE HYPE and them saying repeatedly it was a world changin, revolutionary, redefining event.

 

The only thing that's changed it's our gibson guitars are probably worth less thanks to this now, and all my other guitars probably went up in price. :rolleyes:

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