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Gibson's Revolution


Silenced Fred

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Well a long time ago (80's) a movie was hyped and they where even charging more for it than other movies at the time because of the hype.. the name "Howard the Duck".

It was just a plain bad movie.. now it's a 'cult' classic.. go figure.

 

Also.. I remember seeing Lester Polsfuss with a black box with switches and dials on it strapped to his guitar so he could create his overlaid 16 guitars at once tracks..

So even he a long time ago was pushing the boundaries of guitar playing.

 

Is the guitar in the pictures ugly.. yes.

was that 2:36min video of the start of the press conference awful.. yes. you'd never know that was a CEO of a major company (sorry Henry)

I haven't seen any other videos of that launch but it doesn't look like it was very visually appealing in anyway.

 

What if Gibson had announced that they were “only” going to make 59 Flamed Maple top Cherry Sunburst solid – not weight relieved in any way PAF pickup Les Paul’s and all other guitars dropped?

 

That by far is the most popular guitar for Gibson sales but does it make it the right choice?

 

Lets hope they keep making the R9’s for those that love them and other guitars for others that love those.

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People saying this has been done since the 70's are like someone looking at the latest Mac and saying "so what I had an Apple 2G in the 80's". This isn't a handful of cheap effects in a toy. It's a state of the art DSP chip that can handle as many fully customizable effects as you could ever want with about 1 ms latency in a sweet playing professional instrument with three fully programmable pickups. It literally has the power of a state-of-the-art DAW inside it.

 

It would have been the size of a 4 story office building in the 70's :)

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But with the Firebird X, they also provide wet/dry controls for the effects. There's one looping preset where you can create an ambient wash, then turn up the reverb togpot and add a reverbed line, then turn up the distortion togpot and play leads over the bed you've created...you can do this with outboard pedals, but having the controls within reach so that you can morph between sounds and play them, rather than just switch between them, is what the producer exploited to create his mini-concert....There are several other things that are interesting about having effects that are part of the guitar rather than just built-in. With the Firebird X, a gate that comes early in the chain controls gating and ducking effects later in the chain. This is important, because the gate can read the full string dynamics, giving a wider range of control.

 

You know what, all this really SOUNDS great, and obviously many may be able to appreciate all it can do. (especially if they like DSP tone)

 

Then why the hell didn't the 'press conference' show all these features and describe them? Hell - MAYBE it did!?! I just don't know! SO even more I have to wonder what the heck that crudy production in NYC was all about! Unless you were there to hear & see for yourself, you have NO idea what it is capable of (and maybe you still don't). Instead, the vast majority of potential fans/customers only get bits and pieces of videos of some guy playing it posted on you tube, playing through PC or laptop speakers. THIS is how you give the world it's 1st impressions to represent your revolutionary future???...one with a $5600 MSRP? And let's not even talk about that 'unveiling' video...cripes!!!

 

There HAD to be a better way or presenting this device, some way where all its good features could be shown to advantage to at least try & help explain the very expensive cost...not all that WAY over the top hype followed up by that failure of a 'press conference'.

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Here's the deal. I understand wanting to move forward, but this is too soon. Perhaps in the future effects etc. will be built in guitars, but not until the technology has proven itself reliable and you can modify the sounds. Variax guitars are NOT selling like hotcakes. Plus the access to effects switching needs to be more simplified... (Just let it go the original Robot thingy was cool this is so not).

 

Second, if you look at this from a guitar player standpoint. We want inexpensive guitars to play on stage, we want reliable guitars to take on tour (studio etc.). Simple controls!! KISS!!! Keep it simple stupid!!

 

The body shape is ugly. The headstock even worse. I guess this was designed around the modules?! BAAAD IDEA!

 

I'm sick of manufacturers making guitars for collectors. I Quit using Ibanez because of all the limited Vai and Satch models.

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Why it is painted with the color, that looks like 1st run Robot? [confused]

 

Very good, give him a cookie! All HJ intends to do with Gibson is reissue every model in his Robot line. Each rollout will be accompanied by bombastic hyperbole & perhaps more bells and whistles. But basically that's all he's up to.

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The "Luddite" reference and smashing the SG was corny and a bit cruel IMHO.

 

In fact, the whole over-hyped presentation was ill-advised.

 

On the other hand, we must remember that Lester himself was probably the king of innovators, and he too went underappreciated for years by his contemporaries. Time will tell, I guess.

 

I personally don't care for the Firebird X, but I never liked the original ones either nor the Flying V. And I remember when they came out and saw them at music stores. The new Firebird X headstock is kinda sexy though. [rolleyes]

 

And the thing weighs just a hair over two pounds, < half the weight of even an SG...hell my Nikon camera weighs more than that! [confused]

I was at the press conference. The weight is 6 LBS NOT 2 LBS. That's 2 LBS lighter than the Robot Les Paul. Let me first say, I use a Fractal AX-FX ULTRA. this is a top shelf rack unit, so I know what the top of the line FX's sound like. The fuzz sound was great. Like Satisfaction /Rolling Stones. The chorus and echo were very good. the guy demoing the guitar was able to switch modes( clean/ chorus> distortion/echo ) very quickly. Lastly, the chameleon tones were very cool. In quick order he went through various tones Les Paul>Strat>Tele>Gretch>Acoustic all with FX. He even was able to create a loop acoustic track then play electric to it. All within seconds, impressive. On the other hand, the Robot tuners DID NOT tune in 3 seconds though. It took about 5-10 seconds for drop tunings. Henry said it was because the robot tuners were a prototype. ALSO Henry said the case will take a 6 story fall and still protect the guitar ...so this is much more that a soft shell bag. Aside from the fretboard color, it looked pretty sharp in person. The red burst is a limited edition run of 1800. As far as price goes, when was the last time any of you paid retail price on a production line guitar? Duh, never. Most either wait till the price drops , buy used, or know their music store owners personally. I'd bet you will be able to rangle it for $3.5G to $4G tops. If not contact me, I'll do it for you. I believe for the person who wants to just travel with a guitar, this will fit the bill. When I tour Europe or the Far East, this and my 5 watt tube amp would cut it. Man, that's carry on luggage. The travel savings alone would pay for half the guitar in a couple of years. To each his own . Just my 2 cents.

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Cool - what was the deal with the Luddite comments(s)? Real or internet rumor only?

Hi, the comment was made in reference to old school players that "go ballistic if Gibson messes with the electronics/shape of any established model line " Hence the need to "reinvent " the guitar from the shape up. It was obviously not meant to insult former customers, only to assure them the original lines will remain intact. On a side note, waiting in line to get in, the guy behind me was railing about how he could only use old beat up gear and would NEVER warm up to Robot tech (he was in his late 20's, dressed like a SRV)...Guess what, when I looked around to say goodbye, he was in the front row looking at the guitar. Never say never. go figure.

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Hi, the comment was made in reference to old school players that "go ballistic if Gibson messes with the electronics/shape of any established model line " Hence the need to "reinvent " the guitar from the shape up. It was obviously not meant to insult former customers, only to assure them the original lines will remain intact.

 

It worked, too:

 

http://4Henry.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/710-thoughts-on-the-firebird-x/

 

Check out the guy who suggests a backpack for your halfstack so you can hide the guitar!

 

Comedy to the nth.

 

 

 

Hey, guess what? There's a new GM?

 

But hey, it's a travel guitar!

 

 

 

 

Surprise surprise surprise!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6_1Pw1xm9U

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Just a few observations here.

 

1. Henry. You need to work on your product roll out skills. Where's the excitement, the intensity, the conviction. Frankly you looked like you would rather be somewhere else throughout the entire presentation. If you can't at least pretend you care then who in your organization is going to?

 

2. Perhaps you folks at Gibson have some method to your madness concerning this new guitar. It's just that pretty near all of us Gibson fans (and sorry to say, in my case, X Gibson fan - pun intended) are staring at our computer screens slack jawed, astounded, confused, and bewildered. There is a lot of fairly civil descent going on at this forum but, if you care to take the time to surf on over to the other Gibson and other guitar forums you will find that there is another revolution going on. Frankly there's a landslide of hostility erupting.

 

3. Although there is a lot of ridicule about the guitar itself there is even more resentment concerning how Gibson and consequently you are treating your customers. This is coming from both prospective and current Gibson guitar owners most of whom treasure their Gibsons. They (myself included) feel that they may well be losing something. They feel that icon of a guitar that Gibson once produced may be slipping away. Not because you introduced this strange and somewhat odd new instrument but rather that you seem unwilling or unable to produce the quality that you once did at something any where near a reasonable price. These criticisms aren't coming from Fender folks or any musicians who are hooked on some other single brand. They are coming primarily from long term Gibson fans who are your primary customer base. At least we hope you still think so because at this point there is some doubt in a lot of people minds.

 

I own two Gibsons at this time and have been one of those fans for many years. Sorry to say that is no longer the case. I will remain a fan of those two guitars and may come back to Gibson some day. That of course depends. In the simplest terms possible I want to convey to you that for reasons unknown to us guitar buyers, "you just aren't listening".

 

 

P.S How in the hell could you smash a Gibson guitar and then call your customers Luddites. Have you lost your freaking mind. It says to us that all of the guitars we purchased from you in the past were crap and that we were fools for buying them.

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P.S How in the hell could you smash a Gibson guitar and then call your customers Luddites. Have you lost your freaking mind. It says to us that all of the guitars we purchased from you in the past were crap and that we were fools for buying them.

 

Thank you Drifter

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Well...I probably shouldn't get involved, but I am very much into both standard guitars and high-tech guitars. (I draw the line at MIDI guitars, though, because they don't give me the expressiveness that makes me love guitar - besides, I can play keyboards.)

 

The analogy I would use here is the difference between piano and synthesizer..Dark Fire didn't make me throw out my other guitars, but it let me create sounds on guitar I couldn't create otherwise. Firebird X takes that concept further. I'm way into this stuff, and designing presets for it - Firebird X provides quite a sandbox to play in. Having so many sounds at your fingertips, and being able to move so fluidly among them, is something I personally find inspirational.

 

Craig, if you had done the presentation instead of Henry, this whole thing would have been a lot easier to take. The way you describe it, it almost makes sense.

 

Instead, we got an aging boomer smashing up an SG and calling his own customers Luddites.

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P.S How in the hell could you smash a Gibson guitar and then call your customers Luddites. Have you lost your freaking mind. It says to us that all of the guitars we purchased from you in the past were crap and that we were fools for buying them.

 

WELL SAID!!!

 

I got my very first Gibson a short month and a half ago, the 50's Studio Tribute. An amazing guitar at a reasonable price. Congrats on moving forward with technology, however, as stated here and many, many other places on the internet, it is crystal clear you truly don't care about the core or base of your customers. 10 years from now, we will see guitarists on stage with a Les Paul, SG, Strat, Tele, Jazzmaster, Explorer, Flying V, etc; but I truly, sincerely doubt we will see any respected guitarists coming on stage with the firebird x, there are too many things to go wrong with it to trust it to be your 'go to' guitar.

 

 

Hendrix - Strat (most of the time)

Jimmy Page - Les Paul (most of the time)

Stevie Ray Vaughan - Strat (99% of the time)

Jeff Beck - Tele, LP, Strat

Clapton - SG, 335, LP, Strat

 

You get the idea, not one of these legends came on stage with the available Vox's or other guitars with built in effects like this guitar. Granted they modified their guitars, but nothing to the level of this. On top of that, if you got 10 guitar players together, put them in a room with 10 amps, and 50 different pedals, you would most definitely not have every guitarist clamoring for the same overdrive, or tremolo pedal. There's something to be said to the organic and personal nature of the union of a guitar a pedal and an amp. Ahh well, enough has been said, this horse is dead and the flesh is coming off from the beating.

 

I hope you try to actually listen to your base for once. Make a quality, affordable, production run Les Paul, like the 50's Studio, why is that so hard to do? I sincerely doubt I'll buy another NEW Gibson, Fender seems to get the idea, check out their Blacktop series.

Peace.

Z

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Craig, if you had done the presentation instead of Henry, this whole thing would have been a lot easier to take. The way you describe it, it almost makes sense.

 

Instead, we got an aging boomer smashing up an SG and calling his own customers Luddites.

 

Well, thanks for the kind words. I am pretty stoked about what this guitar can do, and it's a shame to see it being dismissed by people who've never actually had a chance to play it. On the other hand, I completely understand. When I first heard about a guitar with "on-board effects," I automatically assumed "epic fail." Who wouldn't, based on the track record of those types of products? But as I worked with the effects and realized this was far deeper than just bolting a fuzztone on the inside, I became a convert. Just the fact that gain-staging can be totally optimized for the guitar pickup levels is a huge deal--the guitar is amazingly quiet at high-gain settings with major compression (part of that is because the pickups have lots of output). Impedances are also matched all along the chain, and the purity of the sound is uncanny. Unfortunately, these are things you only get to experience after logging time with the guitar, and all of a sudden going "Hey, I just realized there isn't any hiss!"

 

I still don't think it's for everyone by a long shot, and taste is such a personal thing, but there's merit to what Gibson is doing. Whether Firebird X is the ideal embodiment or not is open to question--the pricing is obviously a big issue--but I can't help but think back on other technology that was too much for the public at first (e.g., Yamaha DX1) but then morphed into something that struck a nerve (DX7).

 

As to the "Luddite" comments, I thought that was way over the top but I didn't attend the press conference so I only had hearsay to go by. However, Jon Chappell of Harmony Central did attend, and I asked him what was up with that. Well, he recorded the press conference, so he had the entire exchange on tape. Here's what he sent to me:

 

"Attached is the audio excerpt containing the infamous 'Luddite' reference. (This is why I’ve gotten in the habit of recording press conferences and other meetings.) You can hear that Henry is clearly not disparaging his customer base when he repeats the word 'Luddite,' but is playing off that term, previously introduced by an audience member. And in the context of his answer, he’s actually defending that so-called group by explaining why Gibson will still continue to make guitars for them (“It’s all about choice ...”). Dang, the forums can be snarky (remember my editorial 'It’s a short ride from masked ball to hooded mob'). BTW, the person asking the question was actually Jay Jay French--one of the guest artists and a Gibson ally."

 

I'll take Jon's word over anyone else's about what actually happened, and the audio supports what he says 100%. His assessment was that the press conference was far from a grand-slam and generally ill-prepared, but it wasn't the debacle it's been described as, either. He also had a chance to check out the guitar, and said it's very playable--he really liked the feel.

 

Eventually that whole press conference brouhaha will fade, and people will evaluate the guitar on its merits--which is what this should all be about, anyway. And frankly, some people will love it, and some will hate it because it is so different from the norm. But there's no need for either side to look down on the other for their opinion. It's just a guitar :)

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Eventually that whole press conference brouhaha will fade, and people will evaluate the guitar on its merits--which is what this should all be about, anyway. And frankly, some people will love it, and some will hate it because it is so different from the norm. But there's no need for either side to look down on the other for their opinion. It's just a guitar :)

 

[thumbup]

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