Edumicate me

[Pixel]

I have a late 80's Marshall JCM800 1x12 50-watt dual channel combo. It currently has a Vintage 30 in it. Thing is, none of my guitars sound that good with it. It sounds ok until I hit about 5 on the gain, then it starts sounding farty... nothing I do EQ-wise can get the tone I want. I have also played with the channel volume - master volume balance, and that seems to do no good. The only time this amp sounds truly good is at stoooopid high volume.

 

I really like the sound of Modern Leads, but have been advised that in an open-back cab it will not sound good. opinions?

 

I am looking for a sharp, clear tone that sounds great at any gain level. I play mostly at a fairly low volume, except when I record. I am in a cover band, so I have to play in a variety of styles/tones, but I do not want to become a pedal-board slave if possible. I like a speaker that can be responsive to touch; since I cut my teeth on acoustic, my touch can vary from a caress to a pounding.

 

Help?

[Silenced Fred]

I have a late 80's Marshall JCM800 1x12 50-watt dual channel combo. It currently has a Vintage 30 in it. Thing is, none of my guitars sound that good with it. It sounds ok until I hit about 5 on the gain, then it starts sounding farty... nothing I do EQ-wise can get the tone I want. I have also played with the channel volume - master volume balance, and that seems to do no good. The only time this amp sounds truly good is at stoooopid high volume.

 

I really like the sound of Modern Leads, but have been advised that in an open-back cab it will not sound good. opinions?

 

I am looking for a sharp, clear tone that sounds great at any gain level. I play mostly at a fairly low volume, except when I record. I am in a cover band, so I have to play in a variety of styles/tones, but I do not want to become a pedal-board slave if possible. I like a speaker that can be responsive to touch; since I cut my teeth on acoustic, my touch can vary from a caress to a pounding.

 

Help?

 

Get an Orange cabinet. IMO, they sound the best.

 

The obvious answer is to not go above 5 on the gain, might need to check the tubes or something.

 

Good luck

[retrosurfer1959]

If you want to re-speaker there are a lot of choices - If you don't like the V30's because of the volume issue you could also try the Heritage series G12H 30 with the low resonant freq response (55Hz) they are Smoother than the V30, but still with a big Marshall tone.

 

But if I was gonna replace it for my own I'd use a Weber VST.

[Steven Tari]

Here's where I go to get speakers for my PA's and Amps when I need them. http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/index.html . Good prices and Quality.

[damian]

Some of the guys posted advice on a thread 'speakers.'

[mrktwn]

I have a late 80's Marshall JCM800 1x12 50-watt dual channel combo. It currently has a Vintage 30 in it. Thing is, none of my guitars sound that good with it. It sounds ok until I hit about 5 on the gain, then it starts sounding farty... nothing I do EQ-wise can get the tone I want. I have also played with the channel volume - master volume balance, and that seems to do no good. The only time this amp sounds truly good is at stoooopid high volume.

 

I really like the sound of Modern Leads, but have been advised that in an open-back cab it will not sound good. opinions?

 

I am looking for a sharp, clear tone that sounds great at any gain level. I play mostly at a fairly low volume, except when I record. I am in a cover band, so I have to play in a variety of styles/tones, but I do not want to become a pedal-board slave if possible. I like a speaker that can be responsive to touch; since I cut my teeth on acoustic, my touch can vary from a caress to a pounding.

 

Help?

I have an old (late '80s) Modern Lead in my Deluxe Reverb. I love it. Sounds good at low volume and with the amp cranked.

Definitely you need something more than a 30 watt speaker!!

[Kimbabig]

Get an Orange cabinet. IMO, they sound the best.

 

The obvious answer is to not go above 5 on the gain, might need to check the tubes or something.

 

Good luck

 

Don't the oranges have V-30s in them, I thought so but am by no means an expert on them.

also you may have to replace the tubes, play it for a few hours and then it will sound nice.

If you are dead set on a new speaker I'f opt for the K-bag sig

[Bowdiddley]

Don't the oranges have V-30s in them, I thought so but am by no means an expert on them.

also you may have to replace the tubes, play it for a few hours and then it will sound nice.

If you are dead set on a new speaker I'f opt for the K-bag sig

 

I thought Orange used V-30's in all their stock cabs. That was my understanding.

[Silenced Fred]

Fred is real close on the answer, actually any cab with a 1 or 2X12 closed back should sound good. Problem with those combos is the amp is rated higher than the speaker and many time the player (me included) will dime the thing and there goes the speaker. Although before you by a cab either bring it to a cab or bring a friends cab to it; test drive it. If its original tubes maybe they have finally gotten so bad you notice it. Those DSL's are great little amps although my only real experience with Marshall Combos was a old school JTM.

 

If the can sounds like crap then new tubes might be in order, I know when I swapped the tubes in the 2203 it brought the beast back to life.

 

Good luck; let us know how it goes.

 

I do kinda know something

 

Don't the oranges have V-30s in them, I thought so but am by no means an expert on them.

also you may have to replace the tubes, play it for a few hours and then it will sound nice.

If you are dead set on a new speaker I'f opt for the K-bag sig

 

Gotta rain on my parade huh?

 

Yeah, they do have Vintage 30s in them, but I like them a lot.

 

Ummmm... pick what kind of speakers you like then.

[Versatile]

I agree with everything said....

Perhaps stating the obvious but all my amps start to 'fart @ 5' or over on the gain

I tend to use gain up to 3 for clean

And expect overdrive at higher settings

H/Bs will drive more than S/Cs so there may be a parameter or two to consider.....

 

 

 

 

[damian]

Don't the oranges have V-30s in them, I thought so but am by no means an expert on them.

also you may have to replace the tubes, play it for a few hours and then it will sound nice.

If you are dead set on a new speaker I'f opt for the K-bag sig

 

 

The G12H30s and webbers are good ideas..It is too bad Pixie that you can't seal the back of your combo, as closed cabinets will tighten up your tone, which I think is what you are looking for, and I don't know if you want to haul around an extention cab. If you do, a 1X12 extention with the right speaker ( and ohmage ) should do...

I must say that the KIMABIG SIGNATURE speakers are handmade TOP OF THE LINE speakers and are reasonably priced at only $423.67 each. The problem is that they are made in small quantities in an unidentified backwater town in Montana which is only accessible by horse, and then only during the spring and summer. They also sell out very quickly, thus are very hard to find, but at least they are American made...Perhaps KIMABAG will read this and bless us by authorizing a reissue series, as those speakers reproduce tone with power, and authority, yet mix in every subtle detail and nuance of one's playing..They are the ultimate +1 speakers.....

[thumbup] ....

 

( Sir, I trust you can comprehend the humor; one of the 'kids' is under the impression I was 'picking on him' or something, and I found that disquieting. Hope you accept my humor; if not, I'll remove this if it is misunderstood, I don't post to ruffle any feathers sir..)

[badbluesplayer]

Eminence makes similarly voiced speakers that are rated at 75 watts. I think the Governor is supposedly similar to the V30. I put one in a homemade cab and its great!

 

Oops - Now I'm thinking the Governor is akin to the Celestion greenback and the Private Jack is like a Celestion V30.

[Pixel]

I re-tubed about a year and a half ago.

 

I can't haul around another cab. =(( As it is, I strain my back every time I have to carry my combo. Yeah yeah the guys always offer to carry it for me, but I pride myself on hauling as much gear in and out of gigs as they do. :P

 

I just really want the sound of a closed back Modern Lead out of an open back cab... and that just ain;t happening. What would a Modern Lead even sound like in an open back? Would I get the same level of response and sensitivity?

[duane v]

I personally like open back cabs... You lose a little attack, but you can make it up with your fingers

 

IMO the issue is with the Marshall.... My ears just don't like anything Marshall puts out, especially the newer stuff. But truth be told, all combo amps and heads need tweaking by a good amp tech. Every amp I've owned had modifications performed to get the tone I'm looking for.

 

Plus keep in mind a combo amp with one speaker, especially for rock is only good for the bedroom or recording IMO.... I would only use a single speaker combo amp as a back-up live.

[Sinner 13]

I ran a Kustom 36 coupe 1x12 open back for three years, no issues live.

I did how ever cook the stock eminence 12in. in about 6 months.

Upgraded to a 60w relic series after.

some times a slightly higher wattage speaker makes the grade.

[duane v]

I ran a Kustom 36 coupe 1x12 open back for three years, no issues live.

I did how ever cook the stock eminence 12in. in about 6 months.

Upgraded to a 60w relic series after.

some times a slightly higher wattage speaker makes the grade.

 

Good Advice

 

The single celestion 30 is probably hurtin a little when the amp in cranked

[damian]

Pixel, just an idea; Since you use your amp to record as well as to perform live, and you don't want to become 'pedal' slaved, and you need a variety of 'sounds' for the covers you do, and you love the Marshall sound, and you don't want to lug around a lot of 'stuff', as an idea; The new Mesa Boogie Trans Atlantic's power section runs on EL34s, the same as Marshalls. It also has enough amazing switches to tailor it's sound on the fly which may be perfect for your 'cover' band duties. It runs 25 watts which can be plenty loud, and has the option of two lower power settings which may be perfect for recording. The head is small and very good looking, and should give you a 'Marshall' like sound. If you pair it with a 2X12 sealed cab running at 4 ohms, this would be a portable and sweet tone monster....Just an idea, to upgrade....

[Kimbabig]

The G12H30s and webbers are good ideas..It is too bad Pixie that you can't seal the back of your combo, as closed cabinets will tighten up your tone, which I think is what you are looking for, and I don't know if you want to haul around an extention cab. If you do, a 1X12 extention with the right speaker ( and ohmage ) should do...

I must say that the KIMABIG SIGNATURE speakers are handmade TOP OF THE LINE speakers and are reasonably priced at only $423.67 each. The problem is that they are made in small quantities in an unidentified backwater town in Montana which is only accessible by horse, and then only during the spring and summer. They also sell out very quickly, thus are very hard to find, but at least they are American made...Perhaps KIMABAG will read this and bless us by authorizing a reissue series, as those speakers reproduce tone with power, and authority, yet mix in every subtle detail and nuance of one's playing..They are the ultimate +1 speakers.....

[thumbup] ....

 

( Sir, I trust you can comprehend the humor; one of the 'kids' is under the impression I was 'picking on him' or something, and I found that disquieting. Hope you accept my humor; if not, I'll remove this if it is misunderstood, I don't post to ruffle any feathers sir..)

 

I thought it was funny

The K-bag sig is actually an idea Riverside and I made. The thread is somewhere but I hate this forums search system, if you are truly interested you're welcome to find it and right now I'm trying to find it myself. I'll post the link if I do, but It is basically me and Riverside deciding marketing ploys for four pages.

[damian]

I thought it was funny

The K-bag sig is actually an idea Riverside and I made. The thread is somewhere but I hate this forums search system, if you are truly interested you're welcome to find it and right now I'm trying to find it myself. I'll post the link if I do, but It is basically me and Riverside deciding marketing ploys for four pages.

 

 

Sounds good, and interesting; looking foward to the link, and a plus one for you if I have one left.

[mrktwn]

I personally like open back cabs... You lose a little attack, but you can make it up with your fingers

 

IMO the issue is with the Marshall.... My ears just don't like anything Marshall puts out, especially the newer stuff. But truth be told, all combo amps and heads need tweaking by a good amp tech. Every amp I've owned had modifications performed to get the tone I'm looking for.

 

Plus keep in mind a combo amp with one speaker, especially for rock is only good for the bedroom or recording IMO.... I would only use a single speaker combo amp as a back-up live.

Oh I so beg to differ. My Deluxe is my be all end all little workhorse. I've used it in LOTS of different situations, and it so rarely lets me down. I "won" the volume war in my band with it, and its faster to piss off sound guys than my blackface Pro Reverb.

I can be peeling paint on stage with the 'Pro and nobody complains. Someplaces the 'Deluxe is barely cracked open and I'm being asked to adjust my stage volume.

[duane v]

Oh I so beg to differ. My Deluxe is my be all end all little workhorse. I've used it in LOTS of different situations, and it so rarely lets me down. I "won" the volume war in my band with it, and its faster to piss off sound guys than my blackface Pro Reverb.

I can be peeling paint on stage with the 'Pro and nobody complains. Someplaces the 'Deluxe is barely cracked open and I'm being asked to adjust my stage volume.

 

LOL!!!

 

Keep in mind you're responding to a guy (me) that ran two mesaboogie MarkIV heads in series with four mesaboogie cabinets.

[damian]

Yup totally forgot about that option; my bad...

 

 

Please ' Edumicate ' me a bit here, and this will help Pixel as well; I use strictly tube amps (again), and understand very well that the prized distortion comes from the tube pre-amp. Speaker research is confusing me; manufactures say their speakers ' break up nicely ' at a certain volume etc...What ROLE does speaker ' break up ' have in tone ( Clean and Distortion ), what is the preffered match between amp wattage and speaker wattage, how does ( would ) matching ( as in Pixels case ) 60 tube amp watts with a 30w, 75w, 100w or 200w speaker affect tone in general ? And is the term ' nice speaker break up ' a legitimate usage of language, or a version of urban myth ?

[badbluesplayer]

Please ' Edumicate ' me a bit here, and this will help Pixel as well; I use strictly tube amps (again), and understand very well that the prized distortion comes from the tube pre-amp. Speaker research is confusing me; manufactures say their speakers ' break up nicely ' at a certain volume etc...What ROLE does speaker ' break up ' have in tone ( Clean and Distortion ), what is the preffered match between amp wattage and speaker wattage, how does ( would ) matching ( as in Pixels case ) 60 tube amp watts with a 30w, 75w, 100w or 200w speaker affect tone in general ? And is the term ' nice speaker break up ' a legitimate usage of language, or a version of urban myth ?

 

It's good to have a total speaker rating of about twice - or maybe three times - the wattage of your tube amp. Like a 50w head into four 25w speakers. Or a 25 w head into a fifty watt speaker. They make speakers that break up at different levels, regardless of the wattage rating. I have an eminence governor in one cab and an eminence private jack in another. They're both rated at 75 watts but one of them - the governor (if I remember correctly) - breaks up really easy like a greenback and the private jack is more like a V30. But they're both rated at 75 w.

 

I run a twenty watt head into (2) 75 watt speakers - a ratio of 7.5 times - and the governor breaks up really easy even though its probably getting only 8 or 10 watts.

[damian]

It's good to have a total speaker rating of about twice - or maybe three times - the wattage of your tube amp. Like a 50w head into four 25w speakers. Or a 25 w head into a fifty watt speaker. They make speakers that break up at different levels, regardless of the wattage rating. I have an eminence governor in one cab and an eminence private jack in another. They're both rated at 75 watts but one of them - the governor (if I remember correctly) - breaks up really easy like a greenback and the private jack is more like a V30. But they're both rated at 75 w.

 

I run a twenty watt head into (2) 75 watt speakers - a ratio of 7.5 times - and the governor breaks up really easy even though its probably getting only 8 or 10 watts.

 

 

Thankyou for the information; very very helpful....I am recently retired at 47, back concentrating on my music ( and law ), and was shocked to 'discover' that after 30 years of playing music that I didn't ever really know about all the equipment I own(ed) and used !!!!! I'm going to check out your links; once again, thankyou for the information...

[thumbup] and a +1.