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need help deciphering vintage ES 125 serial #


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Greetings,

 

I have a nice vintage ES125 that I would like to date. It has an ink-stamped serial on bare wood inside the body, visible from one of the fholes. The number is 971820 and does not seem to fit any of the serial conventions that I have read about.

 

Other clues include: P90 w/ adjustable poles, headstock with no imprinted stamp on the back, dot inlays....

 

Thanks to whoever can unravel the mystery for me.

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I don't have access to Gibson's Factory Order numbers but it's possible that's the number you're seeing, especially if there's a space like this: 9718 20. That would suggest FON # 9718 and your guitar being #20 of a batch (typically of 40).

 

Is it possible the 9 is a letter instead?

 

As to dating a 125, I know the earliest ones had non adjustable polepieces and the knobs were different than the later ones, but one major change occured sometime in 1955, and that was the switch from 19 frets to 20. That should help narrow down the year.

 

If it turns out to be 19 frets and therefore pre-'55, another way to narrow it down is by the headstock profile. Around 1952 they went from a tapered headstock to a uniform thickness, viewed from the side.

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Great tips on the frets and headstock - I will check those out this afternoon. If I could narrow it down to pre/post 55 it would help a ton.

 

I have looked hard at the stamped numbers - there a little faded, but I am pretty sure I am reading them correctly. From what I read, a FON of 9718 20 doesn't fit the model. If there was an 'A' before the 9718, it might suggest 1952.

 

Thanks for the help.

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That serial number would place the guitar in the late 1960s. Single and two pickup versions of the The ES-125 remained in the Gibson catalog till around 1970.

 

But wouldn't a late 60s model have a stamp on paper and/or imprinted on the back of the headstock? Mine has neither.

 

Thanks!

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Since it is an "ES" model, you can check the potentiometer codes. Not an easy task through the f-hole, but if you have a small mirror and flashlight, and the back of the pot cans aren't all covered with solder, it will give you a good idea of when the guitar was built.

 

You're looking for a seven-digit number probably starting with "137" (137YYWW). The next two numbers (YY) are the year the pots were made, and the last two numbers are the week of that year (WW).

 

So as an example, the pot code 1376952 would be manufactured by CTS (137), in 1969 (69), during the last week of December (52). Of course this only tells you when the pots were made, but relative assumptions can be made from this date.

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The only thing I'd add to Larry's info is that I think in the 40s and 50s they only used one digit for the year. So if it read 1376952 Larry is spot-on, but if it read 137652 then it would be the 52nd week of either 1946 or 1956. Luckily there are typically other attributes that one can use to determine 40s from 50s.

 

Not positive about the one digit thing by the way.

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Ran home after work to count the frets....19 it is, so I will take it that is in the 50-55 range. That alone is very helpful.

 

I tried to read the pot numbers, but didn't have access to the whole string of digits.

 

I'd like to see some images of the headstock taper changes. Not sure I have a good idea in my head what that should look like?

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And yes, there is a space between the 1st 4 digits and the final two: 9xxx 2x But I think that FON was being using in 1918???. It is true the first digit (9) is hard to make out, but I can imagine any other letter or number that would look like what I see.

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I tried to find a good clear pic showing the tapered vs non-tapered headstock but couldn't find anything decent.

 

The difference isn't huge but it's there. You may have to see an A-B comparison to be sure. As viewed from the side, a post-'52 headstock is the same thickness from one end to the other. On the tapered headstock, you will see that it's fairly thick down by the E tuners and gradually gets thinner as it goes up to the tip, sort of a wedge shape.

 

One other very minor point you might look for is to look inside the body and see if there are black strips of cloth glued to the inside surface of the sides every so often. Up to about '52 they glued reinforcement strips onto the sides. I know it was true for archtops but not sure about the ES series.

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Took another look. Yes, there are black strips that look like cloth, about 1.5-2" wide, on the inside of the sides. They are spaced every 8in or so.

 

As for the headstock, I can't detect any real change in thickness.

 

But it is interesting. I noted earlier that if there was an A before the stamped number on mine, it would indicate an early 1952 (last FON issued in 1951 was A 9420;

last FON in 1952 was A 12460). And if the cloth strips and tapered neck were phased out during that year, it suggests that mine might be a '52 caught in a transition.

 

Thanks to everyone for the help! Much appreciated.

 

Steve

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