Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

Great debate right now on the AGF if new Gibbys are any good ..


EuroAussie

Recommended Posts

Get in there and support the brotherhood ... :-)

 

I always love winding up the Taylor and Martin boys about Gibbys, too much fun.

 

http://www.taylorguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200536

Hi EuroAussie:

Not much new here. That forum has always been trolls when it comes to Gibson. I will say that they are moderating just a bit though.

 

There is a post by Jerry K that says he has toured the plant and that Gibson is making 200 guitars a day. Well anyone that has ever toured the plant knows that Gibson has never made more than 60 guitars a day and the normal production varies between 35 and 50. With production that limited it's impossible for Gibson to supply every Mom and Pop music store with product. Gibson can't sell one or two guitars a year to a small local store when they have trouble keeping up with the demand of the larger "box" stores and the increasing demand by the International market as well.

 

It's amusing to hear all the different opinions about Gibson and their approach to how they sell their product. This is a very small operation at best. The have less than 100 people in the production end of the the plant. They can't just turn up the dial and make unlimited numbers of guitars. There are a lot of folks on this Forum that have toured the plant in Bozeman and they can tell you just how small it really is.

 

Well we have been down this road before so I won't start another debate on the issue of distribution. I won't post on the Taylor forum so if you want to jump in there you can use the real facts to support Gibson. A word of caution though. They will not change their attitude. Not even when they know the reality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All true, but I must say it is all rather entertaining.

 

Ive always been curious why there is so much 'emotion' about Gibsons on the AGF as opposed to virtually any other brand. I asked that question there and got cut down immediately by my nemesis (love that guy).

 

My theory about the Gibson bashing is that over 50% of AGF members classify themselves as fingerstylists, and arguably they prefer the Taylors, Goodalls etc for fingerstyle over Gibson, so they find it diffucult to relate to the brand and tone.

 

Just one theory other than the price and inconsistency yawn yawn argument, but the topic certainly does flare some emotion.

 

Hi EuroAussie:

Not much new here. That forum has always been trolls when it comes to Gibson. I will say that they are moderating just a bit though.

 

There is a post by Jerry K that says he has toured the plant and that Gibson is making 200 guitars a day. Well anyone that has ever toured the plant knows that Gibson has never made more than 60 guitars a day and the normal production varies between 35 and 50. With production that limited it's impossible for Gibson to supply every Mom and Pop music store with product. Gibson can't sell one or two guitars a year to a small local store when they have trouble keeping up with the demand of the larger "box" stores and the increasing demand by the International market as well.

 

It's amusing to hear all the different opinions about Gibson and their approach to how they sell their product. This is a very small operation at best. The have less than 100 people in the production end of the the plant. They can't just turn up the dial and make unlimited numbers of guitars. There are a lot of folks on this Forum that have toured the plant in Bozeman and they can tell you just how small it really is.

 

Well we have been down this road before so I won't start another debate on the issue of distribution. I won't post on the Taylor forum so if you want to jump in there you can use the real facts to support Gibson. A word of caution though. They will not change their attitude. Not even when they know the reality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I saw it. Even made a comment in it.......One thing you have to keep in-mind in any AGF debate is that you are going to get a certain number of folks who simply have a very low opinion of Gibson, or Martin, or Breedloves, etc. It's the nature of the forum. On the otherhand, you have some very intelligent people in there who write some very interesting posts and are clearly interested in good guitars. Those folks make the AGF very interesting to read.....The bashers who make me laugh are those who claim to have played a great many J45s and never found a good one. It was 3-4 years ago and one guy claimed to have owned Gibsons for over 30 years and had never had a good one. Another favorite rant is about new Gibsons with the finish flaking-off or very poorly done. I readily admit I'm a big Gibson fan and I'll play them continously when I go by Guitar Center, BUT, these terribly flawed guitars are fortunately not sent to my local GC. They must send them to the other stores. You'll also find people who have all of this history of Gibson screw-ups and lousy guitars, but you have a very difficult time finding their sources for the information......Is Gibson perfect? Of course not, but they still make great musical instruments.

 

I think Martin makes some super acoustics too. And there's nothing wrong with Taylors or a hundred other brands. I once made a comment--something about Taylors being Martins that had been castrated and I got angry emails from two people that I assume take all of this way-too-seriously....Anyway, Gibson is the favorite whipping boy on the AGF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All points taken, but why isnt Martin and Taylor getting a slice of the whipping action ? OK, Taylor gets a bit, but its kind of fun, Martin hardly ever ..Gibson, boy do emotions start flying ..

 

Yeah, I saw it. Even made a comment in it.......One thing you have to keep in-mind in any AGF debate is that you are going to get a certain number of folks who simply have a very low opinion of Gibson, or Martin, or Breedloves, etc. It's the nature of the forum. On the otherhand, you have some very intelligent people in there who write some very interesting posts and are clearly interested in good guitars. Those folks make the AGF very interesting to read.....The bashers who make me laugh are those who claim to have played a great many J45s and never found a good one. It was 3-4 years ago and one guy claimed to have owned Gibsons for over 30 years and had never had a good one. Another favorite rant is about new Gibsons with the finish flaking-off or very poorly done. I readily admit I'm a big Gibson fan and I'll play them continously when I go by Guitar Center, BUT, these terribly flawed guitars are fortunately not sent to my local GC. They must send them to the other stores. You'll also find people who have all of this history of Gibson screw-ups and lousy guitars, but you have a very difficult time finding their sources for the information......Is Gibson perfect? Of course not, but they still make great musical instruments.

 

I think Martin makes some super acoustics too. And there's nothing wrong with Taylors or a hundred other brands. I once made a comment--something about Taylors being Martins that had been castrated and I got angry emails from two people that I assume take all of this way-too-seriously....Anyway, Gibson is the favorite whipping boy on the AGF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a man who took a 30 years Gibson break, I have to underline that they are 'different' and sometimes difficult guitars. It's not like just walking from point A straight to point Gibson. No way - You'll have to follow a slight zigzag, then fetch a certain key and make a wish, to approach the tree.

 

There is a riddle you have to grasp, a little sacrifice you have to make before the fruit can be taken - If you don't bother, get another acoustic.

 

(The thing about finger-picking is sheer nonsense) -

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I very rarely go into AGF anymore.

 

Too many goof balls.

 

On the Gibby forum, you don't see people trashing other brands out of hand.

 

On AGF trashing Gibson is a regular occurrence that tends to draw in a feeding frenzy of malcontents looking for something to b!tch about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saw it too. The constant Gibby bashing is the main reason I rarely post over there anymore. I'll go and post a comment for posterity's sake but it won't do any good. As far as posting pro-Gibson sentiment on the AGF, I'm afraid I've developed learned helplessness LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gibson hate is rooted in the belief that Gibson sound quality from guitar to guitar is a crap-shoot, where you have to play several to find one that sounds good. Conflate that with high price and general envy, and you have the basis for irrational dislike.

 

Of course, the core problem here is the mediocre MasterBuild strings that new Gibsons are shipped with. Face it, after a couple weeks hanging on the show-room wall, they sound like duds.

 

Gibson's reputation with bloom if they would simply ship all the guitars with Elixir Nanowebs on the guitar and a set of Masterbuilts in the case.

 

This, I am sure about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This comment just took the cake for me .... `10% decent Gibsons in 40 years, pardon my french but what a dickxxxd.

 

I had to have a go at this guy, just a stupid comment, or the most unlucky man on the planet.

 

Quote:

'One example out of how many? Gibson has always been capable of building a quality guitar but has IMHO, been among the worst when it comes to consistency. In over 40 years, far less than 10% of the Gibsons I've played were decent sounding/playing instruments. YMMV.'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This comment just took the cake for me .... `10% decent Gibsons in 40 years, pardon my french but what a dickxxxd.

 

I had to have a go at this guy, just a stupid comment, or the most unlucky man on the planet.

 

Quote:

'One example out of how many? Gibson has always been capable of building a quality guitar but has IMHO, been among the worst when it comes to consistency. In over 40 years, far less than 10% of the Gibsons I've played were decent sounding/playing instruments. YMMV.'

I echoed your comment. I think he has wax build-up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gibson's reputation with bloom if they would simply ship all the guitars with Elixir Nanowebs. . . .

 

This, I am sure about.

I'm not with you. Went to a Taylor Road Show last fall and found out every single guitar there had coated strings. Tried 6 or 7 in the nearby shop as well. They sounded very full, I admit, but the only way for me to check things out (guitars and strings) was to buy a set and bring them home on my D-35. It exploded like a stallion on steroids - way too much ! Fountains of sting, not much wood left. I kept them on, though - for some r'n'r band recordings (and the experiment). Even in that context they seemed overpowering and too full of them self, and were only kept in for their 'otherly' flavour. The ones you talk about, I don't know - they have ultra thin coating - okay, that might be one step down from supernatural.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Karen !

 

I dont mind a bit of Gibby bashing as I find it somewhat entertaining but that comment was just insane.

 

Sometimes you just have to fight back..

In his profile he states he's a McAlister sales representative, so he has a vested interest in steering people away from Gibsons (or any other model)!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have had a J30 Rosewood for 13 years and love it. Purchased in Chicago at a GC. This is one of now 6 guitars, all but one acoustic. Last year I was near the Atlanta GC and as I do when I have a chance, I dropped in to play in the used acoustic section. My intent on that day was to play guitars other than Gibson, just for a different feel and sound. I played many - Taylors, Martins, Larivees, Santa Cruz, Guilds, and in the end I kept coming back to a 2007 AJ. I almost walked out with it. I could not keep it off my mind or outta my head and went back 3wks later and took it home. I reckoned that since it was still there it was meant to be. Great logic. All this to observe that while I really liked quite a few of the guitars I played a lot, the Gibson sound kept pulling me back. Not sure what the AGF naysayers are all about. A final observation, it's somewhat telling that a great many great musicians choose Gibson, long after they can afford to purchase whatever sounds like home to them. And this is not to suggest that Gibson are necessarily better than others, but certainly hold there own with folks whose ears are likely a lot sharper than mine!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yah...I have also stayed away from AGF. Just too pretentious for my tastes. What I find is that it seems the real malcontents and braggarts over there never post clips of themselves playing their "better than yours" guitars. Which brings me to my point that when you DO see live performances, TV performances, awesome YouTube clips of working musicians....I would bet that 40% or more are playing Gibson Guitars. (OK it is a guess at a percentage, but it is a very high percentage for one brand of guitar). After Gibson it is Tak and Taylor, but those are brands known for good plugged in sound. Then the other brands and builders.

 

I think that says something more than any points made in a forum debate on Gibbys

 

EDIT: I just noticed that I echoed your same point Yaz ...great minds .....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They can't just turn up the dial and make unlimited numbers of guitars.

 

This is half the response to Gibson detractors in those debates. Gibson is selling all the acoustic guitars Bozeman can build, so they don't really have much use for suggestions on how to sell more. It seems as if most participants in these discussions think that cranking up production really is as simple as turning a dial.

 

The other half goes like this: If you think only 10% of Gibsons are good enough by you, fine -- they do vary (as do Martins, and Taylors, and even Estebans) and you're entitled to draw your personal line anywhere you want. But the other 90% sell to people who could have spent their hard-earned money on a Martin or Taylor, yet chose to buy one of those "dead" Gibsons instead. So, apparently, lots of people like them just fine.

 

The real mystery is how anyone could think that asking participants in a forum whether Gibsons are "any good" might possibly result in obtaining information relevant to determining whether (s)he would enjoy owning and playing one -- which, at least purportedly, is the reason for starting these threads. Even if the poor soul has never played one (because no store within 26,000 miles stocks Gibsons), (s)he's certainly heard plenty of them, and can hear plenty more by going to YouTube. Even a bad recording played on lousy computer speakers provides more useful data than mostly anonymous comments in a forum.

 

-- Bob R

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WiseAxe

MissouriPicker;

 

Thanks for hitting the reset button with that Mark Knopfler/Chet video. Now... what were we talking about?

 

 

Sometimes a song is worth a thousand words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess it's true that Gibsons are not very good for fingerstyle pickers. And I've always heard that those big Gibby jumbos are definitly not good for fingerpicking. Plus, those horrible mustasche bridges.....Good God! Why would anyone want a Gibson?

 

 

Wow! That's fantastic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MissouriPicker;

 

Thanks for hitting the reset button with that Mark Knopfler/Chet video. Now... what were we talking about?

 

 

Sometimes a song is worth a thousand words.

 

No kidding... those were worth all the words so far.

 

Hey...what model are they playing? Not your everyday Gibby pickguards, but I like...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...