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International Trademark Nightmare


suburude63

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I've got no sympathy for Martin. A friend saved his nickels and dimes and bought a new DX something or other, proud as a peacock that he finally got a real Martin. A year or two later he and his wife visited the Nazareth factory and he asked about the DX series. "Those are made elsewhere" was the response.

 

Yep, made by Martin in Mexico.

 

Maybe most people wouldn't care but he did. He thought he was getting the real deal.

 

I won't buy any Fender products anymore because they won't come out and say where they're made and they've been so deceptive in the past few years I wouldn't believe them if they DID admit to where they were made.

 

I'm not being xenophobic here; I own products made all over the world and the lack of a "Made in USA" sticker is not a deal breaker. I just don't like it when US companies try to sell me a product based on it's US made tradition, heritage, even resale value and then I find out it's made by cheap labor south of the border.

 

Harley Davidson waved the US flag for years and cried in the early 80s that the Japanese were making a superior product at a cheaper price and you guys can't let a historic US company die! The government put a huge tariff on imported bikes over 700ccs. All of a sudden the $1999 Yamaha 650s were gone and Harley introduces the $3999 XLX. How convenient. Couldn't do that a month before?

 

And now Harleys will be made in India.

 

Keep waving that flag, boys. If you wave it so much it becomes threadbare I'm sure WalMart will sell you another one marked Hencho en Chine.

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I'm not being xenophobic here; I own products made all over the world and the lack of a "Made in USA" sticker is not a deal breaker. I just don't like it when US companies try to sell me a product based on it's US made tradition, heritage, even resale value and then I find out it's made by cheap labor south of the border.

 

 

Amen Brother.

 

Right on!

 

I saw a Chinese/Taiwan "Leatherman" the other day. Huh?

"Buck" knife.

The list goes on and on and on.....

 

I would think in this economy it would be profitable to build a widget in America, for Americans, that proudly claimed it in large print.

 

I'm proud that Henry & Co. has kept the name "Gibson" (not counting that brief stunt with the acoustics, ahem....)

to mean an American built product and not tried to FOOL us.

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(not counting that brief stunt with the acoustics, ahem....)

 

I'm still mourning Garrison. I've got one of the skeleton store display guitars here. I don't own a 'real' one but it's on the list.

 

I would have done things differently with Garrison. Keep the Newfoundland factory open, shut down the Chinese line, keep the brand identity strong. I believe a company can be small and serve a niche market, particularly if it's a small cog in a big company's wheel. But I'm a failure at business and didn't go to Harvard so what the heck do I know...

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This is laughable.

 

The biggest emerging economy in the world, and Martin's lawyers are sitting on their hands. What morons. I agree with KSdaddy - they're getting what they deserve. And it isn't the first time something like that has happened to them - remember the Takamine lawsuit from the 70s and early 80s - another trademark problem brought about by they're shabby treatment of Tak. You would think Martin might have learned their lesson - but no. Fender will suffer the same fate, if they've got a similarly stupid legal department.

 

 

BTW - Thanks Subu - I hadn't seen this before - a +1 for you. B)

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Just check this out......AND a lot of these are marketed over here.......this is why I would NEVER buy a guitar off of EBAY.....without seeing it first, you are just open to this kind of brand stealing....

 

http://www.tradetang.com/china-products/free-shipping-musical-instruments.html?source=Google*MI_S9_ChinaGuitarUS_20101125&gclid=CKvVooHE-6UCFRRKgwodVSZhpg

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Very interesting, and very challenging for a company with a long standing reputation.

I work in manufacturing, in a conglomerate with factories in Asia, India, Europe and the US, all with different names but about to have one name which I can't tell you. I suspect the reason for the new name has to do with these kinds of trademark laws. Our company will go and register the new name everywhere everyhow, then announce the name change. It dents the reputation in the near term and we will spend a lot of time saying "you know us, we used to be the so and so company", but within a few years all the trademark violators will be on their own.

Maybe Martin has to do that?

We need to suggest a new name for them...

anyone?

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I've got no sympathy for Martin. A friend saved his nickels and dimes and bought a new DX something or other, proud as a peacock that he finally got a real Martin. A year or two later he and his wife visited the Nazareth factory and he asked about the DX series. "Those are made elsewhere" was the response.

 

Yep, made by Martin in Mexico.

 

Maybe most people wouldn't care but he did. He thought he was getting the real deal.

 

I won't buy any Fender products anymore because they won't come out and say where they're made and they've been so deceptive in the past few years I wouldn't believe them if they DID admit to where they were made.

 

I'm not being xenophobic here; I own products made all over the world and the lack of a "Made in USA" sticker is not a deal breaker. I just don't like it when US companies try to sell me a product based on it's US made tradition, heritage, even resale value and then I find out it's made by cheap labor south of the border.

 

Harley Davidson waved the US flag for years and cried in the early 80s that the Japanese were making a superior product at a cheaper price and you guys can't let a historic US company die! The government put a huge tariff on imported bikes over 700ccs. All of a sudden the $1999 Yamaha 650s were gone and Harley introduces the $3999 XLX. How convenient. Couldn't do that a month before?

 

And now Harleys will be made in India.

 

Keep waving that flag, boys. If you wave it so much it becomes threadbare I'm sure WalMart will sell you another one marked Hencho en Chine.

 

 

This entire post could have come out of my head....I'm going to start wearing a hat!!

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On a slightly off-topic note, Suburude's avatar is Mr. Natural, a creation of Robert Crumb. It was wildly popular from its beginning with many using it for various purposes. In the late 70's a hot-shot lawyer told him he should cash in on Mr. Natural's usage. After a few years of legal action, Crumb ended up owing more to the IRS and his lawyer than what he made. But then, Crumb isn't quite the corporation that Martin is.

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I love the Chinese double talk included in the sales pitch. They are selling an OBVIOUSLY fake Rickenbacker 4003 style bass, WITH the name Rickenbacker AND "made in USA" on the guitar and in the description they say the price is cheap because it is made in China and Chinese labor is cheap.

 

From the TradeTang website:

 

1. Question:maybe some buyer will confuze why our guitar price is so cheap ?

 

Answer:because all our listing items made in china ,also china labour is cheap ,so all the goods is cheap than other country .

 

2. Question:how about the quality for the musical instruments ?

 

Answer:why so many world famous brand choice china are the factory base ?because China's handcraft are very famous,cheaper,work fine,so get more trust from all over world.so don't worry about our guitar quality, their's handcraft very excellent,sounds good,high quality.you must pride with you buying the guitar from china.

 

3. Question:how about the parts ?

 

Answer:our all guitar parts import from overseas ,so with highest quality and playable is good.most of our guitar wood using mahogany wood,basswood,maple,rosewood,ebony wood.using those wood the sounds is clearly and playable is perfect.

 

You no worry. Guitar perfect! Make happy life with Fakenbacker guitar!

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I confess to some consternation about this thread. I'm reluctant to get involved, but decided to offer two observations.

 

First, on the international trade mark issue. This is a serious issue in the global economy. I fail to understand how Martin's building of product in Mexico should result in it losing its legal rights in the international arena.

 

Second, regarding those products built in other countries by American companies .... Martin clearly labels its DX line as "Made in Mexico." There is nothing misleading about that. As for Harley, yes, it is assembling cycles (from components made in the USA, with some sub-contracted parts made elsewhere) in India ... for Indian purchasers. It had been exporting completed motorcycles to India, but decided to become more competitive with companies building product there (Honda, for example) by assembling Harleys in India. This is one of the few export success stores in American industry.

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In my opinion, American manufacturing is the victim here. How any American can say they have no sympathy for companies like Martin, trying to maintain a quality product while paying a living wage to its workers is beyond me.

 

You think these manufacturers want to move their production outside the U.S.? They are trying to survive in this cutthroat amoral global market. I'm not in manufacturing (thank God), but it's a nightmare for any U.S. business trying to stay afloat, keep quality up, and pay workers a wage than can actually live on.

 

It's also not a situation which Americans should celebrate. We need to support the U.S. companies that manage to stay alive in this environment.

 

As long as these other markets are allowed to do whatever unethical crap they can come up with, (with the support and sanction of their governments and legislatures), to cheer for them, I believe, is extremely misguided.

 

This B.S. has real potential for harming our ability to compete at any level. In the long run it is extremely destructive to our economy and to our way of life. If it keeps up, it'll put the workers we have left out of business. It's not a joke.

 

I think I'm agreeing with jt on this one. (I usually do...)

 

Thanks,

Jack6849

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I really like the idea of getting a guitar made in america for some reason. Perhaps it is just a misguided sense of nationalism but it seems a little backwards that we have almost everything imported. That is the brutal nature of the free market though, cheap migrant labor has been used throughout history and now they don't just migrate to the country with their products.

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How any American can make statements about it being great that ostensibly US companies like Martin and Fender have moved their production out of the United States is beyond me. As companies like these move more manufacturing out of the country and/or source parts out the country, the real manufacturing output of the US shrinks. While appearing to be employing US workers, these companies are actually moving more and more jobs out of the country and pushing the income of US citizens lower.

 

I don't like the fact that Martin and Fender, among other companies, are taking this approach. It's sad to see the misguided support of these companies and their production strategies. And another sad observation - It's difficult to find another population, like that of the US, that so easily abandons it's own domestic manufacturing companies in favor foreign parts, products and companies - even in the face of the ruinous effect on it's own economy.

 

Unfortunately, it's a fact that manufacturing will continue to leave the country. I'm not happy that the US will be left with some "assembly" operations - as manufacturing companies originally based in the US, and foreign companies, move us closer to a service based economy. Still, the US continues to make it easier for foreign companies enter the US market, while countries like China and Japan keep their markets favorable to their native companies - case in point: China's trademark laws.

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How any American can make statements about it being great that ostensibly US companies like Martin and Fender have moved their production out of the United States is beyond me. As companies like these move more manufacturing out of the country and/or source parts out the country, the real manufacturing output of the US shrinks. While appearing to be employing US workers, these companies are actually moving more and more jobs out of the country and pushing the income of US citizens lower.

 

I don't like the fact that Martin and Fender, among other companies, are taking this approach. It's sad to see the misguided support of these companies and their production strategies. And another sad observation - It's difficult to find another population, like that of the US, that so easily abandons it's own domestic manufacturing companies in favor foreign parts, products and companies - even in the face of the ruinous effect on it's own economy.

 

Unfortunately, it's a fact that manufacturing will continue to leave the country. I'm not happy that the US will be left with some "assembly" operations - as manufacturing companies originally based in the US, and foreign companies, move us closer to a service based economy. Still, the US continues to make it easier for foreign companies enter the US market, while countries like China and Japan keep their markets favorable to their native companies - case in point: China's trademark laws.

 

People in the U.S.A. are, surprisingly, willing to vote against their own interests. It will be our ruin. That's all I got.

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Creating US made quality products is no longer possible when the US labor force demands high wages while the US consumer demands the lowest prices. Consumers have developed the "Walmart" mentality which seems to create a no win situation. US Manufacturers have to sell their souls to compete in the new global economy, craftsmen can no longer produce quality products and consumers end up complaining when the plastic piece of crap they bought at the chain discount store breaks or doesn't work as advertised.

 

I would have thought the recent little dip in the economy would have highlighted the lack of fundamentals in our country's competitiveness....but it seems after this little pause to bail out the guilty....Wall Street is back at milking the golden teat ...pulling money out of the economy with out creating anything.

 

Newest trend is "Micro Trading" --- Unlike Swing Traders, who often hold positions for 2-5 days, astute Micro Traders jump on breakouts -- as well as breakdowns -- moving in and out of positions quickly each market day. They often find opportunity in 5 or 15-minute charts, taking frequent, bite-sized profits out of the market on a daily basis.

 

Many use computers running algorithms that do all this automatically performing many trades per minute. How is this making the US economy stronger!?!?! Didn't we learn anything out of "The Great Recession"?????

 

People in the U.S.A. are, surprisingly, willing to vote against their own interests. It will be our ruin. That's all I got.

 

+1 jannusguy

 

People decide these issues with their pocketbook. If no one bought the $290 Martin guitar knock offs then there would be less of a problem.

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