hi13ts Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 I have to apologize in advance, but since we don't have an off topic section, I might as well post here. I recently saw Mike Campbell from Tom Petty's Heartbreakers execute an interesting move with his Firebird. I tried it on one of my Les Pauls and I've noticed a VERY subtle vibrato (very useful when playing natural harmonics when you can't bend a string). I want to know if this is safe to do frequently. I've heard many techniques where they tell you to actually bend your neck away from the strings to produce a whammy bar effect and I know that that can snap your neck off. Here's the link to the the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piDRP3ho6m4. You can see it clearly around 1:02-1:03 and 1:18-1:19. Thanks in advance. Edit: Sorry, the link doesn't seem to be working. I'll give you the link to the search results page where you can click on it. It should be the first video (live at Fillmore) : http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Running+Down+a+Dream+Fillmore&search_type=&aq=f (highlight the whole link, and then paste on your address bar)
GuitarJunkie Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 I assume you're talking about that thing he does at the 1:02 mark? He's just grabbing the end of the body (while still holding the neck) and loosely shaking the whole guitar. There's no danger whatsoever. Especially since a Firebird neck extends right through the whole body all the way to the strap pin, and then the "wings" are glued on. Before I saw the video, I figured you were talking about when guys use one hand to push the guitar into their body, then use the other hand to push the neck forward. While this is a bit more dangerous, as long as you don't try any crazy bends you should be safe.
NeoConMan Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Firebird neck extends right through the whole body all the way to the strap pin' date=' and then the "wings" are glued on.[/quote']Okay I suppose... I figured you were talking about when guys use one hand to push the guitar into their body' date=' then use the other hand to push the neck forward. [/quote']That's like having a nice car and purposely driving into the ditch. Why?
GuitarJunkie Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 That's like having a nice car and purposely driving into the ditch.Why? I don't actually do this. That's why I have a Bigsby/Maestro fetish. As far as Firebird construction, I know that's a pretty simplistic way of describing it (and not entirely accurate), but it makes the point.
Thundergod Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 I have seen guys doing what Junkie described... every time I see someone do that I get very upset... as Neo said: "like having a nice car and purposely driving into the ditch."
AXE® Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 That's like having a nice car and purposely driving into the ditch. Why? I think I sh!tted myself ... a little ...
hi13ts Posted August 20, 2008 Author Posted August 20, 2008 That's like having a nice car and purposely driving into the ditch. Why? My thoughts exactly. It's looks extremely dangerous, and I know it can kill your guitar. Thanks to GuitarJunkie for the answer. It seemed safe, but I was still a bit afraid because I do have a Les Paul and not a neck-thru-body design. Does anyone know how it achieves that sublte vibrato? Is it just the slight movement of the fingers?
tonebias Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I do all of the above, on a Les Paul you just can't grab the peghead because it will snap (it's a single piece of mahogany) but other guitars that don't have trems the peghead is my handle (maple neck in particular because they are extremely strong)... You're kind of forced to bend the neck a little if you don't have a trem, seen many guitarist do it, even Randy Rhoads. It's really not that big of a deal as long as you don't try to bend a whole step. I've done it for over 20 years and never broke a neck.
surfpup Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 It's just a slight bending of the neck. It won't hurt. There are times when finger vibrato won't cut it (a full chord or a harmonic for example) , so to get that little warble many have done it and will continue to do so. If you're afraid, don't do it. But you'd have to really yank that neck to wrench it off. A bigger fear might be the G string hanging up sharp on the nut!
Aaresz Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Before I saw the video' date=' I figured you were talking about when guys use one hand to push the guitar into their body, then use the other hand to push the neck forward. While this is a bit more dangerous, as long as you don't try any crazy bends you should be safe.[/quote'] If I remember correctly this is how our good friend Saul Hudson snapped his neck, and bashed up his face all at the same time.
GuitarJunkie Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 If I remember correctly this is how our good friend Saul Hudson snapped his neck' date=' and bashed up his face all at the same time.[/quote']His face was nothing to write home about before that incident.
DoubleSixx Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Yeah that's no big deal. Like everyone else I thought you meant pushing on the neck/head stock. Since headstock tend to snap off on Les Pauls I'd avoid that move completely.
hi13ts Posted August 20, 2008 Author Posted August 20, 2008 It's great to see that it works well for some of you, but I'd still be a bit cautious about doing that (I'd probably try it out on a Telecaster first). But back to my question, do you know how the "shaking of the body" produces that slight vibrato? For the people who just joined, I'm talking about the technique that Mike Campbell did. I want the technical "physics" of how shaking the body is able to produce a vibrato.
surfpup Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I'm no rocket surgeon, but I'd guess that since the body and headstock have mass, moving the body aggressively away from the headstock results in a slacking of the strings. Using a little Isaac Newton, imagine the headstock and body as two separate entities with mass connected by the neck and the strings. You move the body, but the headstock is still at rest and there is a slight delay in it's movement resulting in the slight warble. I could be making this crap up though.
GuitarJunkie Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Simple. The wood is pliable enough that shaking the body/neck causes just enough flex to change the pitch of the strings.
hi13ts Posted August 20, 2008 Author Posted August 20, 2008 I would imagine that it could mess up the truss rod just a wee bit?
tonebias Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Simple. The wood is pliable enough that shaking the body/neck causes just enough flex to change the pitch of the strings. +1 Also, if you want to get really technical there are other reasons (gyroscopic motion), but the majority of the vibroto is form the flex of the wood. It wont have any affect on the truss rod... It may flex a little too...
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