Who's replaced their pots?

[Tim Plains]

This is the first time I've ever done this and I have a question...

 

I replaced the caps in my LP Standard with 2 NOS .027 300v C-D Vitamin Q Type Capacitor. I bought a hole bunch off of eBay and these were the first ones to arrive on my doorstep. I'm still waiting on Sprague Vit. Qs and vintage Bees.

 

I removed the factory caps and then only installed one new cap. I then plugged the guitar into an amp and both pickups were working. If I only have one cap in the guitar, then shouldn't only one pickup produce sound?

 

Cheers, Tim

[surfpup]

I think both pups will work, but only one will be capacitiated. The caps act like a tone filter -they don't eliminate signal (in regular LP wiring) they merely filter it. I could be totally wrong however!

[tonebias]

Yes, this will be the case. Caps are only used on tone controls to bleed treble to ground at different rates, so depending on the uf value the tone can be altered when using the tone control.

[joelettinger]

they are both going to work because tone controls are wired in parallel. meaning they work in unison together and will still work with out the capacitor. it just will mean turning the tone will effect only one pickup.

[DoubleSixx]

The only way you'd get only one pickup to work is if you disconnected one pickup from the volume potentiometer.

 

I'm guessing the pickup without a cap has a dud for a tone pot now =(.

[Tim Plains]

I see...thanks guys. I just found it weird, that's all.

I'm still trying to interpret what I'm hearing....and I didn't know what to expect before I made the swap.

So, unless I'm way out to lunch on this. The LP sounds (exactly??) the same when the tone knobs are wide open.

...but when I roll them back, they cut out much more of the highs.

[Tim Plains]

I'm guessing the pickup without a cap has a dud for a tone pot now =(.

Both caps are in now. That was just to see if it worked.

More importantly...to see if I didn't **** up my Standard.

[DoubleSixx]

Heheh, the only way you'll F' something up is when you mess with the pots or the jack. Been there...

 

The lugs on the pots are relatively safe.

[surfpup]

How's it sound? I thought the point of new caps was to keep more treble as you rolled off the tone (then again maybe that was the point of switching to 500k tone pots). Curious since I am planning to try some caps in one of mine soon.

[Tim Plains]

How's it sound?

I don't know...

I should have recorded her before I replaced them.

There's definitely less treble as I adjust the tone knobs.

These are .027, whereas the stock Gibsons are .223. I'm not sure how much impact that 0.004 has.

[Tim Plains]

One thing I should point out is...this is a learning experience.

I didn't expect to find the perfect caps on my first try, right?

When the Spragues come in, I'll put them in to try out.

[surfpup]

Maybe you should record a sample before the others arrive. Then you can compare them all objectively. I'm sure many of us would be interested in your findings.

[tepidy]

The caps will only affect the tone. both pups still have thier hots wired and both have thier grounds so they will both work.

[slimjimdom]

Also the caps won't effect the pickups at all when the tone controls are dimed. So with the controls set on 10 the guitar will sound just as it did with the original capacitors.

 

I also notice you said the new caps are .027 and .223 that would be a huge difference. Did you mean .0223?

[Riffster]

When I replaced the stock caps on my LPVM with Hovlands I did notice a subtle tone difference, the sound is more focused but the guitar can still sound dark, then I found out the volume pots are 300K, I am sure 500K pots would open up the sound.

 

The 0.004 you mention may make a difference, some use 0.015 caps for the neck pickup and that's a 0.007 difference compared to the 0.022.

 

Also I just found out my Explorer has 300K pots for Volumes and 500K for Tone and a 0.022 cap. The diagrams I found at seymourduncan.com for two humbuckers and a 3-way switch show all 500K pots and a 0.047 cap? with humbuckers? I thought I was confused then until I found out my American Stratocaster has a 0.022 cap, single coils with 0.022 caps?

[Tom99SS]

Also the caps won't effect the pickups at all when the tone controls are dimed. So with the controls set on 10 the guitar will sound just as it did with the original capacitors.

 

I also notice you said the new caps are .027 and .223 that would be a huge difference. Did you mean .0223?

 

This is a little incorrect. The CAPs do effect the tone even when the tone knob is on 10. This has been pointed out on many forums. The signal still goes through the CAP. So yes the CAP does influence the tone even when on 10. Some caps are brighter sounding, some darker, some woody sounding. etc.

 

Try swapping CAPs and see. There is a tonal difference even when the tone knob is on 10.

[DoubleSixx]

The best way to make sure your cap doesn't affect your volume tone is to ground it directly to the tone pot and connect the volume and tone with a separate wire.

 

I was happier with that mod, it's not the treble bleed mod but it's close.

[Toner]

Tone caps do have an effect on 10. I have a guitar that uses a switch to open the tone cap. When the control is on 10 and I flick the switch I can hear a slight increase of highs. It all depends on how your amp is set if you'll hear a differance or not. Caps are subtle, or obvious, for the same reason. Some people can't tell a difference in quality between CD recordings and the radio. Guitarists usually have a good ear for sound and can pickup these subtle differences easily.

[ALIEN8]

Tim,

 

Welcome to the world of the subjective, completely argumentative, and most overrated part of guitars. In this subject trust one thing, and one thing only, your ears.

 

Let me explain only what you need to know about caps:

 

1) Tone caps do affect the tone at 10, like mentioned before it is subtle, depending on the difference in value.

 

2) As you decrease the value of the cap, you increase the frequency it responds to. So a cap with a value of .22uf will sound darker than a value of .022uf. The easy rule here is that the more zero's you have after the decimal place, the more open the pick-up is going to sound.

 

3) One cap compared to another will sound different, even from the same brand and value range. The materials that the cap are made from and the tolerance they can achieve to the nominal value make a difference. If you have a cap that has a tolerance range of +/-1%, then you can be safe at replacing the cap later to achieve a similar sound.

 

4) Caps age, and change. This is not necessarily good or bad... they change sound with age, because they change in capacitance, meaning the value changes.

 

5) Use low voltage capacitors for tone controls to keep the physical size small.

 

Now, as for tone & volume pots:

 

1) Volume pots: The larger the tone pot value, the more bright and sterile sounding you make the pick-up. There is a balancing point here, and the general rule of thumb for humbuckers 500k. The lower the value, ie 300k the darker the tone gets, because you cannot open the sound up completely. If you went above 1 meg, you would get into harsh sounds. If you roll back a 500k pot a little, you will get the same sound as a 300k pot, but not vise versa.

 

2) Tone pots: The value here also makes a difference. You don't need a tone control, and you can have a tone control that is "no-load", or turns off (removes the capacitor and tone pot from the circuit). These are great because you can really open up the sound when you need it, and dull it back a little when you want. EDIT: The larger the tone pot value, the closer to a "no load" pot it becomes, and thus the capacitor affects your tone less. These are really easy to make using existing pots, and if you do some searching on the net there is an article that explains how to make them.

 

Hope this helps a little...

[Tom99SS]

Alien8 - very good write up you have there. Another reason why we should have a sticky thread for Pots/Caps, one for pickups, etc.

 

Just wish the admins would create these. :-)

[slimjimdom]

Hey thanks for clearing my misconception. Learn something new every day.

[Tim Plains]

Thanks for the explanations, all.

I'm been playing this LP on and off since I got home from work today and I can now officially say I do not like these caps.

Whatever they are, they're coming out of the guitar when the next set of caps arrives.

I hope the Sprague Qs are much better.

[DoubleSixx]

Cheap us updated.

[surfpup]

Yes, I am looking forward to your thoughts on the Vitamin Qs also.

[DoubleSixx]

Tim,

 

A quick heads up, it occurred to me since you'll be soldering/desoldering/resoldering you may need a few more items.

 

To prevent drips of solder into the control cavity or onto the grounding plate you should consider the following :

 

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062744&cp=&sr=1&origkw=solder+braid&kw=solder+braid&parentPage=search

 

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731&cp=&sr=1&origkw=desolder+iron&kw=desolder+iron&parentPage=search

 

I don't know if there's a Radio Shack in Canada but I'm sure you can purchase where you bought your soldering iron.

 

If you're working inside the cavity you may not want the desoldering iron, it's fairly large and can you can accidentally touch/burn the wood the components etc.

 

You can put the braid onto areas you would like to clean up, press the regular soldering iron onto the braid to soak up excess solder.

 

Since you're only working with the caps right now, solder can easily run down the lugs and splatter in the cavity, something you should avoid.

 

Some splattered solder on the grounding plate if you have one can cause crackling and/or unwanted noise.