Learning Theory.

[Andre S]

So for quite a while I haven't reviewed or learnt anything new in theory, just focusing on learning other songs through tabs, videos etc, but now I started to learn theory.

 

I learnt formation of simple chords with the 1-3-5 formation, and learnt the major scale.

My question is where do I go after playing around with the major scale? Any advice?

Thanks for any help.

[tazzboy]

Good for you. I started learning Theory a long time ago and help me understand things about how song are constructed and how major and minor Pentatonic work.

[Andy R]

So for quite a while I haven't reviewed or learnt anything new in theory, just focusing on learning other songs through tabs, videos etc, but now I started to learn theory.

 

I learnt formation of simple chords with the 1-3-5 formation, and learnt the major scale.

My question is where do I go after playing around with the major scale? Any advice?

Thanks for any help.

 

I learned a lot from the series of books and DVD's called "Fretboard logic" very good method that is easy to understand.

 

 

 

[rocketman]

That's a good suggestion. You may also want to look at the circle of fifths.

[Whitmore Willy]

Pentatonic

circle of fifths

Yup...+1 and good advice.

 

Can also be handy to pick up a cheap keyboard. When learning scales, modifications to minor, seventh, relative (or just acquaintance), modes and relations between them a keyboard is the most visible means for learning.

 

The acquaintance crack was just me being me. Dead serious about the rest.

 

Willy

[Duende]

I recommend the Royal Schools of Music theory papers. They are only about £3 each and go from grade 1 to 8 and really helpful!

http://www.abrsm.org...adedTheory.html

 

Music theory in practice is a good companion

http://shop.abrsm.or...Grade-4/2049689

 

Here are the past papers for grade theory exams

http://www.musicroom...iesid=series742

 

If you need any help I don't mind being your oversees marker!

 

Matt

[zigzag]

If you're serious about learning guitar, take lessons. If you're a dummy like me, it will be hard to learn it on your own. Fretboard Logic is good, but IMO lacks real theory. Learning the circle of fifths is a great idea, but makes no sense without someone to help you fully understand it.

[Mark]

Can someone suggest which Fretboard logic. I did a google search and there are quiet a few.I am sure

it depends on your level of skill.....mine would be none.

 

I did find the Circle of Fifth very useful

[Andy R]

If you're serious about learning guitar, take lessons. If you're a dummy like me, it will be hard to learn it on your own. Fretboard Logic is good, but IMO lacks real theory. Learning the circle of fifths is a great idea, but makes no sense without someone help you fully understand it.

 

circle of fifths is easy. It pretty much just tells you how many sharps are in a given key. Remember that the pattern of whole steps and half steps that make a major scale = WWHWWWH

( Major scale = Do Re Me Fa So La Ti Do) Watch "The Sound of Music" Sometime

 

1. Start with the key of C Major which is CDEFGABC = 0 Sharps (#)

2. Count up 5 starting from C and you land on G so G Major has 1 Sharp = GABCDEF#G

Proof = G to A is Whole Step, A to B is Whole Step, B to C is Half Step, C to D is Whole Step, D to E is Whole Step, E to F# is Whole Step F# to G is Half Step (WWHWWWH)

3. Moving on to find the next Major Key that has 2 Sharps You start from G Major Scale and count up 5 notes and you end up on D Major = DEF#GABC#D Use the WWHWWWH method to test this

4. Moving on to the next Major Key that has 3 Sharps you count up 5 notes starting with D major Scale and you land on A Major = ABC#DEF#G#A

- Notice that each scale contains the Sharp from the previous scale and that the sharp you add to the scale is the Half Step before the Note Name of the Scale Your On.

So for example the next Major scale in the circle of fifths will contain 4 sharps from what we have seen in the previous examples we know to count up 5 starting from the Previous Major Scale which was A Major so this next scale which is E Major will contain F# C# G# and a half step before E is D# So using WWHWWWH we see that E Major = EF#G#ABC#D#E

Quick recap-

 

0 Sharps = C Major = CDEFGABC ( No Sharps)

1 Sharps = G Major = GABCDEF#G (F# )

2 Sharps = D Major = DEF#GABC#D (F# C# )

3 Sharps = A Major = ABC#DEF#G#A (F# C# G#)

4 Sharps = E Major = EF#G#ABC#D#E (F# C# G# D#)

5 Sharps = B Major = BC#D#EF#G#A#B (F# C# G# D# A#)

6 Sharps = F# Major = F#G#A#BC#D#E#F# (F# C# G# D# A# E#)

7 Sharps = C# Major = C#D#E#F#G#A#B#C# (F# C# G# D# A# E# B#)

 

So how does this help you? Just to name a couple of things if you ever look at the Treble Clef Staff and you see 3 Sharps right at the beginning you will know it is in the key of A major . How? By using the Circle of fifths you know that C Major has no Sharps, so if you count up from c major to the 5th note you have G major which has 1 sharp, then you start with G major and count up 5 and you get D major which has 2 sharps, You then start on D major and count up 5 and you land on A Major which has 3 sharps!

 

Ok so here is an easy way to remember all of this

 

Cats Get Drunk And Eat Birds with Sharp Fangs and Sharp Claws

 

Number of Sharps Per Key

C = 0

G = 1

D = 2

A = 3

E = 4

B = 5

F# = 6

C# = 7

 

There ya go the circle of 5ths If you have any questions ask there is also the circle of 4ths that tell how many flats are in a key. Same principle.

[ChanMan]

I just copied and pasted that whole post. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Andre S]

Ok, thanks a lot everyone, the posts look very helpful!

 

I've looked at tutors already however the first one I had was great, but I didn't want to learn so much theory at the beginning, I wanted to play, so I went to another tutor for 2 years, who honestly didn't really teach me anything.

By that time I had stopped guitar for another two years. By that time the first teacher who was already about 70ish stopped teaching.

 

There was another teached but a classmate who went there said that he wasn't too good.

 

Thanks again.

[Andy R]

Can someone suggest which Fretboard logic. I did a google search and there are quiet a few.I am sure

it depends on your level of skill.....mine would be none.

 

I did find the Circle of Fifth very useful

 

 

 

The first 2 books will get you going pretty well. I would recommend the DVD as well. The first 2 books are a learning system based around the CAGED method. The 3rd book applies the method to Theory.

 

As you have probably heard from about everything you have read and people have told you, essentially all music theory is derived from the major scale one way or the other. So when I taught I would teach this basic principle when playing basic leads ( this is not a rule it is just an easy way to get started) If you know that the key of a song is in C if you are playing a solo and don't hit any flats or sharps ( because we know C doesn't have any) then you really can't play a "Bad" note some will sound better than others at certain points. So using the circle of 5ths if you are playing in the key of G which has one sharp ( F#) if you are playing leads over this as long as you only play the notes GABCDEF#G you will sound in key. If you hit an F it is going to finort! ( sound bad ) especially if someone is playing a chord with an F# in it.

 

Now another thing that is contrary to what I said is that you can really play any note over any key as long as you don't hold on it very long which is called a Passing Tone. So in the scenario above it's not that you can't play an F you could use it as a passing tone to get to F# or to Get to E Just don't linger on it.

 

So from my statement above if your playing in a certain Key then any chords played in that key will only contain notes from that key! Again this is BASIC theory....

 

Have you learned how to build chords yet? As in Major = 135 and minor = 1 Flat3 5 ?

 

 

Andy

 

 

[Andy R]

I just copied and pasted that whole post. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Pasted where buddy???

 

 

 

[Riffster]

I precisley ordered Mel Bay Fingerboard Theory for Guitar A Music Theory Text for Guitarists, I am trying to get a little more into theory.

[Mark]

Thanks Andy

[zigzag]

Order of Sharps:

Fat

Cats

Get

Down

And

Eat

Beans

 

Order of Flats (reverse sharps):

B

E

A

D

G

C

F

 

 

Key:

C: no sharps or flats

F: Bb

Bb: Bb, Eb

Eb: Bb, Eb, Ab

Ab: Bb, Eb, Ab, Db

Db: Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb

Gb: Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb

Cb: Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb, Fb

 

All of this information will be helpful when learning modes. It also makes more sense if you learn it first on a keyboard. Observe where the root note falls on the fretboard.

 

Take lessons.

[Andre S]

circle of fifths is easy. It pretty much just tells you how many sharps are in a given key. Remember that the pattern of whole steps and half steps that make a major scale = WWHWWWH

( Major scale = Do Re Me Fa So La Ti Do) Watch "The Sound of Music" Sometime

 

1. Start with the key of C Major which is CDEFGABC = 0 Sharps (#)

2. Count up 5 starting from C and you land on G so G Major has 1 Sharp = GABCDEF#G

Proof = G to A is Whole Step, A to B is Whole Step, B to C is Half Step, C to D is Whole Step, D to E is Whole Step, E to F# is Whole Step F# to G is Half Step (WWHWWWH)

3. Moving on to find the next Major Key that has 2 Sharps You start from G Major Scale and count up 5 notes and you end up on D Major = DEF#GABC#D Use the WWHWWWH method to test this

4. Moving on to the next Major Key that has 3 Sharps you count up 5 notes starting with D major Scale and you land on A Major = ABC#DEF#G#A

- Notice that each scale contains the Sharp from the previous scale and that the sharp you add to the scale is the Half Step before the Note Name of the Scale Your On.

So for example the next Major scale in the circle of fifths will contain 4 sharps from what we have seen in the previous examples we know to count up 5 starting from the Previous Major Scale which was A Major so this next scale which is E Major will contain F# C# G# and a half step before E is D# So using WWHWWWH we see that E Major = EF#G#ABC#D#E

Quick recap-

 

0 Sharps = C Major = CDEFGABC ( No Sharps)

1 Sharps = G Major = GABCDEF#G (F# )

2 Sharps = D Major = DEF#GABC#D (F# C# )

3 Sharps = A Major = ABC#DEF#G#A (F# C# G#)

4 Sharps = E Major = EF#G#ABC#D#E (F# C# G# D#)

5 Sharps = B Major = BC#D#EF#G#A#B (F# C# G# D# A#)

6 Sharps = F# Major = F#G#A#BC#D#E#F# (F# C# G# D# A# E#)

7 Sharps = C# Major = C#D#E#F#G#A#B#C# (F# C# G# D# A# E# B#)

 

So how does this help you? Just to name a couple of things if you ever look at the Treble Clef Staff and you see 3 Sharps right at the beginning you will know it is in the key of A major . How? By using the Circle of fifths you know that C Major has no Sharps, so if you count up from c major to the 5th note you have G major which has 1 sharp, then you start with G major and count up 5 and you get D major which has 2 sharps, You then start on D major and count up 5 and you land on A Major which has 3 sharps!

 

Ok so here is an easy way to remember all of this

 

Cats Get Drunk And Eat Birds with Sharp Fangs and Sharp Claws

 

Number of Sharps Per Key

C = 0

G = 1

D = 2

A = 3

E = 4

B = 5

F# = 6

C# = 7

 

There ya go the circle of 5ths If you have any questions ask there is also the circle of 4ths that tell how many flats are in a key. Same principle.

 

Thanks, I understand some fo the Circle of Fifths, but what I don't understand is this.

As you said, C Major Scale, CDEFGAB has no sharps. Then you take the fifth note, G to form the G Major Scale, GABCDEF# and the D Major: DEF#GABC#

 

How do you know which notes become sharp in the new scale?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I saw your next post.

[Riffster]

I agree that taking lessons is the way to go but studying before hand will get you better results.

[Andy R]

Another good thing to know is the relative minor scale to its corresponding major scale. The minor scale formula is WHWWWHW or another way to think of it is you start with the last Whole Step in the major Scale formula and work your way back around WWHWWWH. So if we want to know the relative minor scale to the key of C major we find the 6th note in the key of C Major which is A and we use the formula of

WHWWHWW So A Minor = ABCDEFGA So to prove it - A to B is a Whole step, B to C is a Half Step, C to D is a Whole Step, D to E is a Whole Step, E to F is a half step, F to G is a Whole Step and G to A is a whole Step. Once again notice it has no flats or sharps. So If you are playing in the Key of A minor You could play a C Major scale over top of it or an A minor Scale over top of it. If Your Playing in the Key of C Major you could play an A Minor Scale over top of it or a C major Scale over top of it.

 

So Just like every major scale there is a minor scale with the same number of sharps or flats

 

For example:

 

G Major = GABCDEF#G Relative minor count up 6 starting from G = E (minor)

E Minor = EF#GABCDE

 

 

Tah Dah !!!!!!

 

 

For example Some people think that You've got another thing comin' by Priest is in F# Major but it is actually in F# minor ( Relative major is A Major) ....

[Andy R]

Order of Sharps:

Fat

Cats

Get

Down

And

Eat

Beans

 

Me thinks you are mistaking here because F as in Fat (Which would actually be F# has 6 Sharps) Also the reason that F is listed in the flat keys and F# is listed in major keys.

Cats Which is Actually C has 0 Sharps

Get as in G has 1

Down as in D has 2

And as in A has 3

Eat as in E has 4

Beans as in B has 5

This should be F# which would = 6 sharps as stated above

and C# would be the last and have 7 Sharps

 

Thus the reason I use Cats Get Drunk and Eat Birds with Sharp Fangs and Sharp Claws That way you remember that the F is F# and the C is C#

[Andre S]

Another good thing to know is the relative minor scale to its corresponding major scale. The minor scale formula is WHWWWHW or another way to think of it is you start with the last Whole Step in the major Scale formula and work your way back around WWHWWWH. So if we want to know the relative minor scale to the key of C major we find the 6th note in the key of C Major which is A and we use the formula of

WHWWHWW So A Minor = ABCDEFGA So to prove it - A to B is a Whole step, B to C is a Half Step, C to D is a Whole Step, D to E is a Whole Step, E to F is a half step, F to G is a Whole Step and G to A is a whole Step. Once again notice it has no flats or sharps. So If you are playing in the Key of A minor You could play a C Major scale over top of it or an A minor Scale over top of it. If Your Playing in the Key of C Major you could play an A Minor Scale over top of it or a C major Scale over top of it.

 

So Just like every major scale there is a minor scale with the same number of sharps or flats

 

For example:

 

G Major = GABCDEF#G Relative minor count up 6 starting from G = E (minor)

E Minor = EF#GABCDE

 

 

Tah Dah !!!!!!

 

 

For example Some people think that You've got another thing comin' by Priest is in F# Major but it is actually in F# minor ( Relative major is A Major) ....

 

Lol. Thank you.

 

I didn't look at the minor scale yet, still familiarizing myself with the major and constructing the Circle of Fifths myself.

[dbreslauer]

A funny yet very informative book is "It's Easy To Bluff Music Theory" by Joe Bennett. ISBN 978-0-85712-352-7. Don't let the title fool you: good stuff and very readable. He has whole series in this style of presentation.

 

Don

[zigzag]

Andy, note that F# is the first sharp in the key of G. That list is a list of the order of sharps. The circle of fifths/fourths can tell a person a lot if they just pay attention to it and study it.

 

A quick way to find the relative minor is to move three frets back from the major root.

[Andy R]

Lol. Thank you.

 

I didn't look at the minor scale yet, still familiarizing myself with the major and constructing the Circle of Fifths myself.

 

 

Don't make it to hard just remeber it is a quick way to see what key something is in. Remember my little saying and you have it down. Quick check is to find some music or tabs and look at the very first bar and see how many #'s are listed then check using 1,3,5, 6 Which is Chord theory 1 = Major Chord, 3 = Major Chord, 5 = Major Chord and 6 = Minor Chord (relative minor)

 

So if you see 4 sharps Just say Cats, Get, Drunk, And, Eat, Birds..... B has 4 sharps so it could be in the Key of B major or It could be in the Key of G minor (The relative minor to B major) .... If the predominant chord especially beginning chord is G minor you have a pretty good clue it is in the key of G minor. If you see predominantly B Major, D# Major, F Major chords then you know it is in B Major. Try playing these major chords and throw in a G minor every now and then. It will sound good.

 

 

 

Andy

[djroge1]

I've not read thru every one's post but let me suggest where to go next or at least in the near future.

 

Theory is great, but it took me years to make it useful and now I know just enough to be either dangerous or to screw me up for the rest of my life. It probably wouldn't have taken so long had I kept learning it - ha ha.

 

Anyway, you said you learned the major scale - great! Have you learned all of the fingerings up/down the fret board? If not, then do that first.

 

Next: Learn the chord pattern that goes with the major scale: I-ii-iii-IV-IV-v-Vi*

Major-minor-minor-Major-Major-minor-diminished

 

That pattern will help you in many ways.

 

Then move into the minor scales and progressions.