onewilyfool Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well, my friend and I went to the 'California World Guitar Show 2011' held bi-annually in Marin County, put on by a bunch of Texans and bringing in "vintage" guitars from all over the U.S. I was not interested in all with the solid body electrics, but did play around with a lot of vintage flat tops and archtops. Let me start off by saying this, "vintage" is a very sophisticated word meaning "OLD". Like when you go into any guitar store, there will be good and bad sounding guitars, this is ESPECIALLY true when playing older guitars. In my humble opinion, most of the guitars at the show were just old guitars, not living up to the panache of the word "vintage". Vintage guitars is a whole nuther world of guitar playing, and not for the faint of heart. At these shows prices are high, always at or above the latest blue books of "vintage" values. Often these guitars have loose braces, need neck resets, and are quite beat. So a buyer has to be on his or her toes. In addition, like an old car, vintage guitars often need a little more love , care, and maintennance to keep them in tip top shape. Three guitars stood out for me: 1. I played a "converted" Gibson Roy Schmeck, guitars which was originally a fretless slide guitar, now a regular playing guitar. 12 frets to the neck, just a wonderful full, loud guitar. A little road worn, (mojo).....this guitar was asking $6K, and seemed to be a bargain on the floor. The nut width and bulky neck, may not be for everyone, but aaaaahhhhhh, the tone!!! I would have got this, but I wisely did not bring any cash with me...lol 2. Gibson 1955 CF 100: This is basically an LG size guitar with nice trim and trap. fret markers and a cut-away.This one had some kind of bend at the sound hole, which was quite visually distorting, but structurally sound. I've played a few of these over the years, and, strangely, generally better sounding than the LG brothers. $4250, great sounding, lots of crackle. Nice 3.1938 Gibson L-C Century of Progress Guitar. Had the L-00 body size, curly maple back and sides, x-braced spruce top, triple binding, white pearloid fingerboard and peghead overlay, and fancy fingerbaord inlays. Has the larger 1 3/4 nut on the chunky neck, firestripe pickguard, and the small straight bridge. This was a great one, in vintage mint shape. I am not really attracted to the look of the fretboard, and this was the first one I've ever played, but I REALLY liked the "feel" of that fretboard. I could slide into the chords and strings so easily. This one sounded as good as any L-00 I've ever heard $6500, again, out of my comfort zone, but I feel this was one that will stay in my memory for a while. These were pretty much the only guitars of the several I played that I thought were even close to the VINTAGE vibe as others were, to me, just old guitars, at least the ones I played. Buyer beware with vintage guitars..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well, my friend and I went to the 'California World Guitar Show 2011' held bi-annually in Marin County, put on by a bunch of Texans and bringing in "vintage" guitars from all over the U.S. I was not interested in all with the solid body electrics, but did play around with a lot of vintage flat tops and archtops. Let me start off by saying this, "vintage" is a very sophisticated word meaning "OLD". Like when you go into any guitar store, there will be good and bad sounding guitars, this is ESPECIALLY true when playing older guitars. In my humble opinion, most of the guitars at the show were just old guitars, not living up to the panache of the word "vintage". Vintage guitars is a whole nuther world of guitar playing, and not for the faint of heart. At these shows prices are high, always at or above the latest blue books of "vintage" values. Often these guitars have loose braces, need neck resets, and are quite beat. So a buyer has to be on his or her toes. In addition, like an old car, vintage guitars often need a little more love , care, and maintennance to keep them in tip top shape. Three guitars stood out for me: 1. I played a "converted" Gibson Roy Schmeck, guitars which was originally a fretless slide guitar, now a regular playing guitar. 12 frets to the neck, just a wonderful full, loud guitar. A little road worn, (mojo).....this guitar was asking $6K, and seemed to be a bargain on the floor. The nut width and bulky neck, may not be for everyone, but aaaaahhhhhh, the tone!!! I would have got this, but I wisely did not bring any cash with me...lol 2. Gibson 1955 CF 100: This is basically an LG size guitar with nice trim and trap. fret markers and a cut-away.This one had some kind of bend at the sound hole, which was quite visually distorting, but structurally sound. I've played a few of these over the years, and, strangely, generally better sounding than the LG brothers. $4250, great sounding, lots of crackle. Nice 3.1938 Gibson L-C Century of Progress Guitar. Had the L-00 body size, curly maple back and sides, x-braced spruce top, triple binding, white pearloid fingerboard and peghead overlay, and fancy fingerbaord inlays. Has the larger 1 3/4 nut on the chunky neck, firestripe pickguard, and the small straight bridge. This was a great one, in vintage mint shape. I am not really attracted to the look of the fretboard, and this was the first one I've ever played, but I REALLY liked the "feel" of that fretboard. I could slide into the chords and strings so easily. This one sounded as good as any L-00 I've ever heard $6500, again, out of my comfort zone, but I feel this was one that will stay in my memory for a while. These were pretty much the only guitars of the several I played that I thought were even close to the VINTAGE vibe as others were, to me, just old guitars, at least the ones I played. Buyer beware with vintage guitars..... Dang.... If I didn't have a funeral to go to today, I'd shoot over there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 15 bucks at the door, Rob......when you go in, you will think you are at a candy store......lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 OWF, Sounds like a good time. Glad you got to play a few 'good ones'! I used to go to some 'Vintage Guitar shows' in the past and usually came away with a 'bad taste'. Lotsa 'hot air' and 'attitude', substandard guitars at top-end pricing. Lots of 'dealer' inside horse-trading and if you brought something in to sell or trade it was picked to death with 'lowball offers' and mutterings of 'kind of hard to move THEM these days'.. That being said, I HAVE bought and sold at such events....But not in a lot of years! Still get that 'bad taste'...Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 15 bucks at the door, Rob......when you go in, you will think you are at a candy store......lol Twice a year, or once every 2 years? Next time I'll meet you there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 OWF, Sounds like a good time. Glad you got to play a few 'good ones'! I used to go to some 'Vintage Guitar shows' in the past and usually came away with a 'bad taste'. Lotsa 'hot air' and 'attitude', substandard guitars at top-end pricing. Lots of 'dealer' inside horse-trading and if you brought something in to sell or trade it was picked to death with 'lowball offers' and mutterings of 'kind of hard to move THEM these days'.. That being said, I HAVE bought and sold at such events....But not in a lot of years! Still get that 'bad taste'...Rod Rod, That is EXACTLY what went on. My friend brought in his '35 L-00 in FANTASTIC condition with an original guitar case and the guy he was trying to trade with just tore the guitar apart and tried to extreem low ball him. For me, I never try to buy or sell, just go for educating myself. I fully understand that "bad taste" feeling, like attending a convention of used car dealers.....BUT it was fun anyway.About what I'd spend to go to a movie...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Twice a year, or once every 2 years? Next time I'll meet you there! I think they have these twice a year, but I only go to the Jan. one.....see you then!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 BUT it was fun anyway.About what I'd spend to go to a movie...lol But..... Was there popcorn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I think they have these twice a year, but I only go to the Jan. one.....see you then!! Okay...you're on.... and since this must not have been advertised in my area, let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 "Vintage" - - A loaded that word carries a wide variety of meanings, and therefore a poor choice as a descriptive term, especially for guitars. The guitar show sounds like an interesting place to browse. Thanks for the report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 "Vintage" - - A loaded that word carries a wide variety of meanings, and therefore a poor choice as a descriptive term, especially for guitars. I think it goes like this. They are "Vintage" if you are a buyer. If you are a seller they're just "old".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Twice a year, or once every 2 years? Next time I'll meet you there! Twice a year, in both North and South Calif. I'll be at the So. Calif. this coming saturday trying to sell a Marttin and a Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Twice a year, in both North and South Calif. I'll be at the So. Calif. this coming saturday trying to sell a Marttin and a Gibson. Good luck with your sale, expect to be bent over.....better bring some lube if you are dealing with the vendors. I noticed attendees who brought thier own guitars, with big hand painted descriptions on their guitar cases, trying to sell to other attendees. You can probably do a better deal that way. The vendors are really ruthless. They list their guitars needing repairs or not, beat or not, at the absolute highest price from the most optomistic blue book or OVER, and they will give your squat for your guitar, way below wholsale. That part of the event I don't like....lol.....but is fun to watch, as long as it is not happening to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Good luck with your sale, expect to be bent over.....better bring some lube if you are dealing with the vendors. I noticed attendees who brought thier own guitars, with big hand painted descriptions on their guitar cases, trying to sell to other attendees. You can probably do a better deal that way. The vendors are really ruthless. They list their guitars needing repairs or not, beat or not, at the absolute highest price from the most optomistic blue book or OVER, and they will give your squat for your guitar, way below wholsale. That part of the event I don't like....lol.....but is fun to watch, as long as it is not happening to you. The two times I have sold guitars at these shows I did a lot better then I could have hoped for. Both of these guitars, a 1960 J45 and a 1966 D28, I tried to sell on all the guitar forums with no luck. I got more from the two dealers at the show then I was asking for them when I had them advertised here and the UMGF ! I don't take it in the *** from nobody. If I don't get my price then they come home with me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Good luck with your sale, expect to be bent over.....better bring some lube if you are dealing with the vendors. I noticed attendees who brought thier own guitars, with big hand painted descriptions on their guitar cases, trying to sell to other attendees. You can probably do a better deal that way. The vendors are really ruthless. They list their guitars needing repairs or not, beat or not, at the absolute highest price from the most optomistic blue book or OVER, and they will give your squat for your guitar, way below wholsale. That part of the event I don't like....lol.....but is fun to watch, as long as it is not happening to you. I can only imagine that it is "dog eat dog" these days at VG shows. The Vintage Instrument market has suffered the same as the real estate market and the economy in general. These dealers are sitting on stock that they purchased at inflated prices and are reluctant to buy more, unless its at a steal. I have watched a lot of 'sell prices' go down on Ebay auctions, or never sell for Buy-it-Now pricing. For a short while it was favorable for European buyers to buy some of these(with a favorable exchange rate)...but I think that has changed also. Thankfully, I have usually bought what I liked, with intentions of keeping(not flipping) it. But in the back of mind, I always justified my purchases with..."its a good investment" also! I have sold 3 in the last 3 years(2 of 3 overseas) and been 'slapped into reality' from what the 'book price' says its worth... :unsure: Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Rod, I agree.....those blue book prices are pretty much inflated. EACH new edition of the books kicks it up 5% - 10% min each year regardless of what the market or general economy is doing.....sigh.....I think the vintage guitar market just got a little greedy, and the present real estate market is a good analogy of what is happening in the vintage market. My friend tried a guitar from one vendor who has brought the same guitar for three years.......no seller wants a guitar to have it's third birthday in his store.....ouch. My problem is, that I always go on the first day of the weekend event, when sellers are less likely to bargain..... I can only imagine that it is "dog eat dog" these days at VG shows. The Vintage Instrument market has suffered the same as the real estate market and the economy in general. These dealers are sitting on stock that they purchased at inflated prices and are reluctant to buy more, unless its at a steal. I have watched a lot of 'sell prices' go down on Ebay auctions, or never sell for Buy-it-Now pricing. For a short while it was favorable for European buyers to buy some of these(with a favorable exchange rate)...but I think that has changed also. Thankfully, I have usually bought what I liked, with intentions of keeping(not flipping) it. But in the back of mind, I always justified my purchases with..."its a good investment" also! I have sold 3 in the last 3 years(2 of 3 overseas) and been 'slapped into reality' from what the 'book price' says its worth... :unsure: Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Yep, OWF, I was a victim of 'first day' syndrome at many events as well... I maybe have bought two things....EVER, from one of those shows. One of them a 1960 Gibson GA18T tweed amp(like a Deluxe), which I still have and is in the background of my avatar picture. The other was a '64 Fender Jaguar(refin) which is long gone. Back in the day, I developed a phone- only relationship with some vintage dealers that I did a lot of horse-trading with. Their word was their bond and if unhappy, things were made right. It is a different era now. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 While I understand the frustration of going to a guitar show and not being able to buy or sell at eBay-level prices, think about it from the dealers' point of view for a minute. They go to a lot of trouble and expense to bring a bunch of guitars out here. Take Intermountain, for example. A big booth like they had costs something like $1600 for the weekend. Add in hotel costs and meals, putting 1200 miles on the truck, etc., etc. They've got to make several thousand dollars in profits beyond what they could have made staying in SLC just to break even financially. Then there's all that loading and unloading and reloading and reunloading, and hours and hours of driving, and being away from the comforts of home. Just to make it easy for people to wander through, check out their stock, and not buy anything because they figure they can get a better deal on eBay? I hope people take all this into consideration when they find a guitar they like and are faced with a decision whether to buy or to shop the web first. These shows provide a service that's valuable to me -- there's no other way I can check out such a large number of interesting guitars so easily -- and I'm willing to pay something for it. If you're not, that's fine. But you don't get to complain if there's no more shows in the future. :) -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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